Northwestern, Northeastern, RIT or RHIT?

If there’s a particular stat of note regarding RHIT, it might be that its middle-range SAT math score (650-760) tends to be equivalent, particularly on its high end, to that of the most selective schools in the country.

https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/?q=Rose+hulman&s=all&id=152318#admsns

I liked the phrase @aquapoint coined so much that I changed my avatar for the rest of this admissions cycle.

@rerunagain Hey asked @aquapt to use that first! Lol!

How about sharing the avatar so I can use it too. We can start a thing. Tee shirts. Hats. Bumper stickers.

Northwestern $55,000/year in loans? Forget about it regardless of how prestigious it is!

@stanfordgsb00 -

For the record:

  1. Perdue makes chickens, not Computer Engineers
  2. In the world of engineering, prestige is viewed as an emotional construct that impedes logical thought. As such, it is best left to people that don't have to actually build stuff that works. (i.e. the "front end" and management consultants).
  3. After several years of analysis, Google figured out that there is little to no correlation between between traditional academic metrics and job performance. As a result, they recruit very broadly and promote based on performance, not prestige. (Which is what they tend to teach at the better business schools).

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/20/business/in-head-hunting-big-data-may-not-be-such-a-big-deal.html

@pieferdays what is your total without loans for each? How much are your parents willing to pay? These are all good schools. If you can go to any with no more than the federal student loans, any are doable. Any that require loans greater than student loans (or private co-signed or parent loans) are too expensive and not worth it. No matter the college prestige, no college is worth saddling yourself with over $200,000 in loans for four years.

@mom2twogirls - approximate amounts without loans below. Parents willing to go to about $37K, but prefer not to.

• Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology - $17K
• Virginia Tech – $27K
• Purdue University – $36K
• Case Western Reserve University – $37K
• Rochester Institute of Technology – $42K
• Northeastern University – $53K
• Northwestern University – $76K

@Mastadon Perdue makes chickens, Purdue makes engineers.

LOL, @privatebanker , I was pretty sure that phrase wasn’t birthed in my head, so I Googled it, and sadly I was right that this will not be the trademark that funds my retirement nest egg. [One example (different context, but still): https://talkpoverty.org/2017/07/17/coastal-elite-real-im-part/ ] But if we use it enough, we can probably earn the dubious distinction of getting another perfectly functional phrase banned from College Confidential. :stuck_out_tongue:

Ok. If your parents really will go up to $37, you can do RIT with only the federal student loans. Are you willing to do that? Otherwise, your options are CWRU, Purdue, VT and RHIT. Those are all really good schools. If you love one more than another for fit and happiness, that matters. For career outcomes they are all great schools. You will be successful as long as you work hard and use the available resources at any of them. If you can visit (or revisit if needed) any then that might clarify things for you.

Northeastern and Northwestern are way too far over budget and not worth that amount of debt.
I think they should be stricken from your list, not worth being considered further.

Love the schools that love you back. You have so many of them!

1 Like

@mom2twogirls thanks for your input! As great as Northeastern and Northwestern are, it’s a hard sell to my parents.

It seems as if there’s more focus here on the unaffordable schools than the affordable ones.

I do understand that everything is kind of on hold until you can assess RHIT firsthand.
But, if might help if you were to narrow down the other affordable contenders in the meantime, so that you can then make a head-to-head comparison between your mid-priced front-runner and RHIT. So, two questions:

  1. Purdue and CWRU are very close in price. If you had only those two to choose from, which would win? Both have top-notch reputations for STEM, but they’re very different schools and experiences. The cost difference really isn’t enough to sway the decision, so where would you go if it were down to these two?

  2. Purdue and VT have a lot more in common than either has with CWRU. Is Purdue worth an additional 40K+ over four years, compared to VT?

If Purdue beats CWRU, then question 2 identifies your winner.

If CWRU and Purdue both beat Purdue, then Purdue is out of the running and you have to weigh VT vs. CWRU.
If CWRU beats Purdue and Purdue beats VT, then CWRU probably wins but weigh VT vs. CWRU just to be sure.

Figure this out, and then you can do your RHIT visit with a specific comparison in mind.

One more question - how important is gender-parity to you?

Rose is the most gender-unbalanced of your schools as far as overall student population. But according to this table (from '14-'15) http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/local/women-in-engineering-and-computer-science/2089/ RHIT graduates a higher percentage of women in both engineering and CS than VT, RIT, Northeastern, or Purdue.

Percentage of women in engineering:
VT: 18%
RIT: 18%
Purdue: 21%
Northeastern: 22%
RHIT: 24%
CWRU: 29%
Northwestern: 33%

Percentage of women in CS:
RIT 4% (wow)
VT 7%
Purdue 8%
Northwestern 9%
Northeastern 10%
RHIT 11%
CWRU 11%

I agree with @mom2twogirls. Northwestern and Northeastern should be removed from consideration, they are not an option.

I also like @aquapt 's analysis above. I would add RIT into the mix only to evaluate how important, or not the co op option is to you. It is a differentiator from the other 4. Yes, you may be able to save some money during co op, you may not and it’s not something you can bank That said, at the end of the day it may well come down to how much your parents can get past, and justify, they cost differential between RHIT and VT, versus the rest. There are no bad choices on your list. They are all very different so I would suggest you rank all of the non financial factors, have your parents do the same. Aggregate your numbers and see what you come up with. Sometimes, that can provide clarity.

So, finances aside and striking NEU and NE I would look at things like

Weather
Travel (distance from home, ease, cost)
Diversity
Gender Balance
Co Op
Curriculum
School Size
Class Size
Tenured Faculty in department
“FIt” (by this I mean the type of student you perceive attends and how you feel you fit…is it largely your tribe or is that a concern). This is a very subjective bucket and you may not know.

And give each school a score , for each category, (1-5 or 1-10 scale) and then see what the totals look like.

Include whatever else might be remotely important to you. You could have an “other” category where a school might get points for a club you really like, or a minor or concentration. For some it’s all about food, or ATM’s or access to healthcare. You may find by doing this it provides some clarity. You may also find that it provides a strong argument one way or another to use with your parents.

@eandesmom @aquapt Thanks for the extensive breakdown and detailed analysis.All very valid points. One good thing is that I’ve visited all the schools on my list with the exception of RHIT, so my decision will be really quick after that visit. My concern is that it is the smallest school on the list and it’s also in the smallest town. I have joined a few of their online info sessions and so far nothing concerning or disheartening has come up.

@pieferdays , @aquapt The American Society for Engineering Education (ASEE) is the Professional Society for Engineers that either work in, or are interested in the field of Engineering Education. They maintain a public database (similar to IPEDs) for Engineering departments/schools. Data is self reported by the colleges and access is provided via a web based UI (analogous to College Navigator). I have provided a link (below) with the screen for undergraduate enrollment for 2018 for Rose Hulman, which has the Male/Female ratio for each class for each engineering major. This data (as well as lots of other data) is available for most engineering schools going back many years. It is a good source for data-driven decisions.

It is a common mistake here on CC to underestimate the size of engineering programs in engineering focused schools. For example, the undergraduate engineering program at Rose Hulman is actually bigger than at Northwestern. Rose enrolled 2015 engineers last year, and Northwestern enrolled 1830. Northeastern enrolled 3876 engineers and RIT enrolled 3366 engineers.

http://profiles.asee.org/profiles/8115/screen/20?school_name=Rose-Hulman+Institute+of+Technology

@Mastadon Thanks for this very enlightening information.

@pieferdays
Are these numbers annualized or four-year totals?

The details for each school before loans are per year / annual amounts.

Rose Hullman–its ranked 1,ahead of Harvey Mudd College for small technical schools. Its got a beautiful campus with a lake and matching brick buildings. Its more liberal, than northern Indiana, but Terre Haute is small and boring and hard to get to, if you don’t live nearby.

Rose uses a quarter calendar thats different from the west coast.

Its got lots of support for undergrads, great computer and engineering labs, nice housing.
Its not as good for computer science, but engineering is strong and well known in the midwest.

Rose does not have national name recognition, but if you plan to go for a masters degree, at a big name
school like GaTech or Purdue, than OK.

I would go to Purdue if you can afford it. (note spelling, its a U NOT an E). For the better name, and better engineering.

Northwestern is no where near as good as Purdue in engineering, so I disagree with the name brand being Norhtwestern, thats more of an all around school, that might be best known for journalism, Arts and Sciences and music, and for sure not CS compared to Purdue. Purdue is the go to school for all the west coast companies. Its always been way ahead of Northwestern for engineering recruiting in Colorado as well. Purdue is considered a gold standard degree among EEs at Hewlett Packard, for instance for years.

Purdue offers fantastic support for freshman in engineering. All in coming engineering majors at Purdue
get a math test in the summer before freshman year, and they are placed in the correct math class. You will need
a certain GPA to get into your chosen major. Purdue puts the GPA for mechanical engineering higher than other engineering disciplines, as mechanical engineering is one of the more crowded majors. Mechanical engineers in practice do not need a higher GPA than EE, in fact, EE is more mathematical than ME.

I am a Case fan, but if Purdue is less expensive, go to Purdue. Its got an exciting campus, compared to Rose.
Rose though if you like smaller more tight knit campus, and want to stay in the midwest to work.

See my posts on Case. It is a very good education, but Purdue is the brand I would want as a new engineer.
West coast recruits more Purdue grads than some of the U of Cal campuses. Purdue really is that good and rigorous.
Co op plans at Purdue may help you pay for later years as well.

Totally agree with post #38 but just to clarify, if you have a high enough ACT math subscore or SAT math score, you do not need to take the Purdue math placement test (at least in engineering). That said, your advisor will work closely with you to make sure you are in the right sequence. http://www.math.purdue.edu/academic/undergrad/placement.php