Northwestern Students Want Undergrad Business Program

<p>Coveting Kellogg </p>

<p>Undergrads want to take it down a degree </p>

<p>by Robert Stein </p>

<p>May 05, 2005 </p>

<p>The Kellogg School of Management -- located at the center of the Evanston campus -- isn't on the academic map for undergraduates. </p>

<p>The powerhouse has outranked every other business school in the country in BusinessWeek's rankings five times since the survey began in 1988. But undergraduates in the economics or Business Institutions programs can only watch Kellogg's success from a distance and wonder why a business degree is off-limits to them. </p>

<p>Some administrators argue it's for their own good. Future business professionals are better off studying liberal arts disciplines at the undergraduate level, they say, and leaving business education for graduate school. </p>

<p>The industry debate about the effectiveness of an undergraduate business education was heightened by the University of Michigan's recent move to expand their undergraduate business degree. Despite the interest in business at Northwestern, University President Henry Bienen said an undergraduate business degree is unlikely here. Besides, NU already tried having an undergraduate business major -- for 61 years. </p>

<p>Undergraduate Interest </p>

<p>The impetus for discontinuing the undergraduate business major in 1969 was a Carnegie and Ford Foundation report on higher education. It concluded the best way to prepare for a business career was to pursue liberal arts as an undergraduate. </p>

<p>Kellogg also decided to refocus efforts to build one of the best graduate schools of management. </p>

<p>Now that Kellogg has positioned itself among the business elites, there is the question of whether resurrecting the undergraduate program would benefit NU. </p>

<p>Despite the educational philosophy of studying liberal arts as an undergraduate, students are still expressing a burgeoning interest in business at the undergraduate level. </p>

<p>There are more than 400 students enrolled in the Business Institutions Program, which is offered as a minor. More than 15 percent of Weinberg students are economics majors, with 663 students declared. </p>

<p>Several organizations exist to promote business at the undergraduate level, such as the Nugget Group, with 600 people on its mailing list. </p>

<p>Nugget president Derek Moeller said NU needs to offer more to students interested in business. </p>

<p>"There is a huge demand here for business," said Moeller, a Weinberg junior studying economics. "Most economics majors would rather be business majors ... they came to NU because they knew it was a good school, but would rather study marketing or finance." </p>

<p>Some students said the BIP minor didn't satisfy their thirst for learning about business. </p>

<p>"We don't take a lot of practical classes that are business-related," said Tiffanie Wong, a Weinberg sophomore in BIP. "There are some marketing classes, but that is it." </p>

<p>Moeller said a Kellogg undergraduate program would help NU recruit high school students. </p>

<p>About 10 percent of students taking the PSAT reported an interest in majoring in business and management, according to the College Board's Summary Report of this year's high school juniors. Only health sciences and services registered greater interest, at about 17 percent. </p>

<p>At Kellogg, about one in five students has an undergraduate business degree. That's the second most popular degree, behind engineering and science majors -- 44 percent of the class. </p>

<p>"There aren't many top-tier undergrad programs out there," Moeller said. "If NU would make the investment, I think it would do the same thing for NU that Wharton has done for (the University of Pennsylvania). In the long term, the school would stand to benefit from the decision." </p>

<p>Students are trying to find outlets for their business interests through programs that capitalize on Kellogg's proximity. Nugget will hold its first Undergraduate Business Conference May 14 to address corporate strategy and outsourcing. </p>

<p>Could it Work at NU? </p>

<p><a href="http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/05/05/4279d15d01413%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.dailynorthwestern.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/05/05/4279d15d01413&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>so do you think that they will change it?</p>

<p>Most likely no.</p>

<p>I hope not. Northwestern is not a sell-out.</p>

<p>i think if they made the business institutions program a major both s</p>

<p>They will need to hire more faculty then.</p>

<p>yeah but it would definitely attract students and it would not degrade kellog's reputation since its taught at wcas</p>

<p>No, if Northwestern wants a business undergraduate program, it would be in Kellogg, not WCAS. Just like Wharton is a separate school, not part of the College at Penn.</p>

<p>no im saying if they expanded the BIP program at WCAS.... without touching kellogg (im assuming BIP is currently taught under WCAS and not Kellogg)</p>

<p>BIP is a liberal-arts program that teaches students business techniques and backgrounds. I wouldn't even consider it a busness program. And no, in order to have an undergraduate business program, you gotta separate it from the arts and sciences. Business is preprofessional.</p>

<p>Just don't call it vocational. Some schools with ug and gr business have different names for each--others do not.</p>

<p>If Penn/Wharton, Michigan/Ross, MIT/Sloan and Cal/Haas are managing, Northwestern/Kellogg can manage too. I do not recommend having separate names for the undergraduate program and the graduate program.</p>

<p>Alexandre,</p>

<p>What exactly is BA in biz? How is it different from a typical MBA curriculum?
Most top MBA programs require at least few years of experience yet we have high schoolers going straight into BBA program. Is something missing there? I would assume even Wharton's MBA requires few years of exp. This suggests to me BBA and MBA can't be the same.
I remember you said you recommend a BA in econ rather than biz. I never asked why you said that. So can you explain? In spite of you saying that, you also seem to think very highly of the biz degree from Mich. So maybe your take on it is not that clear-cut? </p>

<p>Sam</p>

<p>It covers nearly the same material. Some MBA's have lots of casework that teach problem-solving and analysis using the tools you learn at the undergrad type course level. I found them of dubious value. I liked to do real world projects which can be done by undergrads as well as grads. We did several actual consulting projects for small clients and that was great experience.</p>

<p>Sam, generally, a BBA is more theoretical and a little broader in scope than the MBA. MBA programs focus more on professional experience, networkink and team-building exercises etc...</p>

<p>I most certainly recommend Econ over Business...any day. I did not even apply to the B school when I was at Michigan, even though my 3.5 GPA was probably good enough to get me in. However, some students really want to major in Business, and to those, I can only recommend a handful of programs (15 or so). Among them, Wharton and Ross are the top 2 programs...in my not-so-humble opinion! hehe </p>

<p>If Kellogg were to develop an undergraduate program, it would rival Wharton almost immediately.</p>

<p>i think the BBA phenomenon is just a way for Biz schools to fill up when their MBA side is slowly dying (see this BW article about decline of MBA : <a href="http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_16/b3929038_mz011.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_16/b3929038_mz011.htm&lt;/a> )
so actually if kellogg doesnt offer a BBA its more because their MBA is doing great so they dont need the extra income. and even though i personally would love to be able to study at kellogg , i do see how having undegrads would "cheapen" the kellogg brand... but im sure there is a way to expand undergrad biz without touching kellogg... by offering more biz oriented courses at WCAS or something like that..</p>

<p>The MBA is slowly dying because 95% of them aren't worth the time. However, the truly spectacular ones will never have to implement a BBA with the sole purpose of raising more income to support the school.</p>

<p>Go48, Wharton, Ross, Sloan, Haas and Stern did not cheapen their image by adding undergraduate offerings. Kellogg wouldn't either.</p>

<p>would any undergrads go to Nyu over better schools if it wasnt for Stern? would any undergrads go to Penn over other ivy leagues if it wasnt for Wharton ? You think they go their cause they want to be in philadelphia ? I doubt it....<br>
when you expand the target market of a brand a school etc... , you inevitably end up cheapening it sometimes a bit , sometimes a lot... but there's no doubt its profitable...</p>

<p>Yes and no. In the case of NYU/Stern, yes. Not in the case of Cal/Haas, MIT/Sloan, Michigan/Ross or Penn/Wharton. Penn is much more than Wharton. It is a top university accross many departments. The campus is known to be one of the most lively among the Ivys.</p>