Northwestern to St. John's

I am a Northwestern freshman. I am wondering if transferring to St. John’s would be a good idea. I am doing okay at Northwestern, but it’s not like I love this place.

The Great Books program at St. John’s fascinates me. Communication skills and the ability to read and understand extremely complex books are what I want to develop and also what, I believe, St. John’s can and will give.

However, I’m not sure if this would be a right choice. Concerns are practical and realistic ones. Education at St. John’s will surely build great foundation for further advanced learning. But SJC education itself seems not quite enough for building specialization or practical skills (like finance?). That may be why almost 70% of graduates pursue advanced degrees where they can obtain more practical skills applicable in job settings. If I currently have no plan for a graduate school, do you recommend that I rather stay at Northwestern?

By the way, I have no clue what I want to major. I am honestly open to everything, but just don’t have anything that really really intrigues me.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

Please be aware that if you do transfer to SJC, you will begin at the beginning. That is, you will start as a Freshman at St. John’s and must complete the entire four year sequence to graduate. They do not accept transfer credit. If finances are not a concern, and the program at St. John’s excites you, it may be worth a transfer. Otherwise, I suggest you keep exploring at Northwestern. I’m certain you will find something to interest you at Northwestern if you keep looking.

If you can find any particular texts on the St. John’s website that particularly intrigue you, perhaps you could track down a relevant course at NU that could give you a similar education. For example, most large colleges probably have a class that reads the Iliad and/or the Odyssey, certainly there would be a religion class that would cover the Bible as literature, some political science class will cover the Federalist Papers, etc. The trick, of course, is finding a series of classes that are taught in seminar style for the optimum learning experience.

Good luck! My daughter is just starting to explore St. John’s College, so I understand how terrific the Great Books program looks.

If you want to be successful, do not go to SJC. It will set you up for a life of misery. They will never tell you your grades until you have received them at the end of the semester, which by then, is too late. They have a strict grade deflation policy, and most kids hover around a 2.9-3.0 gpa. If you have any hopes of going to graduate school or finding a job, go somewhere else. They have the pomposity of The University of Chicago without the credentials to do so. Not that anyone has the right to be pompous, but if your school has 100’s of Nobel Laureates and Rhodes Scholars affiliated with it, then you can brag a little. If you are interested in a classical type of education, go to Uchicago. You will be far better off and it’s right on the other side of town. Besides, you can always get their Reading List and just read the books on your own. After you’ve read the books on your own, you can find someone in the classics department and have a meaningful discussion with them.

The classroom conversations are wholeheartedly unproductive. Most kids after the first 3 weeks will come to class significantly unprepared and will just say something to prove to the tutor that they read the material. What’s even more frustrating is that the kids who talk the most, know the least. Oftentimes, the kids who work the hardest won’t get a chance to speak as much as they should, which is disappointing.

The only productive conversations that I had at this school were the ones that I had with professors. As many negative things that I have to say about this place, even I will admit that there is no disputing the quality of the professors (or “tutors” so to speak). They are world class. But the biggest problem is that if you don’t understand something, and need them to explain it to you, they will nuke your grade. Why? Because there are no tests. Ergo, they must base your grade off of your “perceived” understanding of the material.

Don’t care about your grades? Don’t care about grad school? Gonna just live off family money and read classical literature for the rest of your life? Then by all means, none of these problems that I’ve raised will concern you. I am going to create a new thread and give a longer account of my experience there. I think that it’s important for people to know more about the school from a firsthand account. Granted, does everyone have the same experience that I do? No. Some people thrive there and have an excellent time. But there are too many people who have the same experience that I had for someone to take a risk without knowing some of the details of what goes on there.