<p>I agree that traveling between NU and Ohare can be a hassle. According to DS, friends that fly in/out of Ohare will pool together and share the taxi fare (around $40). But Midway has several of the cheaper airlines and we use that airport all the time. DS uses the El to get to and from Midway. Takes a bit over an hour to get there, but it only costs him $2. Can't beat that price!</p>
<p>My kids have a friend at Wash U who absolutely loves it. Getting to the airport is easy with campus shuttles. The students work hard but are laid back. The only complaint that I hear is that since St. Louis is not a hub, flights are VERY expensive.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Getting to either of the airports in Chicago is a big pain, but I guess you can get anywhere from there non-stop (at least from O'Hare, if you are a fan of huge airports).
[/quote]
there is a good chance that your flight will be delayed or canceled though... ;)</p>
<p>^^^well, there's that. :eek:</p>
<p>If you can fly on Southwest, those flights are relatively cheap and Southwest has been a dream to work with when I've needed to change a flight.<br>
I think St. Louis gets a bum rap. The area around campus is beautiful. The park across the street is a real gem and the loop area to the north is a cool place for students to hang out. There is all the shopping a student would need a short distance away from campus (Best Buy, Target, Schunks, Galleria Mall, Bed, Bath & Beyond, etc.). There are also many good restaurants. The Italian restaurants on "The Hill" are especially good. Many of these places are accessible by the metro. Finally, the weather is also considerably better in St. Louis than in Chicago.</p>
<p>Well, if we're going to talk up St. Louis, let me mention that the Missouri Botanical Gardens (formerly Shaw's Garden) is a very, very good botanical garden. Well known for its research operation and a beautiful place to spend hours walking the extensive grounds and visiting the several indoor buildings. I've been to many big-city botanical gardens, and none compare for overall variety.</p>
<p>Alas, getting there is a bit more difficult than some of the other attractions. It is in the city, but not on the monorail, and not within walking distance of WUSTL and Forest Park. Worth the cab fare, though, if you have a free afternoon.</p>
<p>I'll also add that I have not stopped hearing about the incredible food and dorms at Wash U.</p>
<p>Just a comment about choosing a school because you like a particular city... Unless you are going to a school that is actually part of the city , eg. NYU, Columbia, Boston University, George Washington in DC...etc., most students land up spending the vast majority of their time on campus. So, the most important part of the decision should be the "fit" of the school and the "vibe" of the campus life, not how much you like city. My D's college search was all about being near a city, but she also wanted a real campus and campus life. </p>
<p>D is now a freshman at WashU and absolutely LOVING it. If she were to rate St. Louis versus her favorite Northeastern cities, Chicago, SF...etc, she would probably put it low down on the list, but the reality of it is that she spends most of her time on campus in the WashU "bubble" and when she goes out there are enough clubs, bars, shops, malls, museums...etc. for four years worth of entertainment.</p>
<p>That's a good point, nervous1. St. Louis is no Chicago, but my D would agree that the area adjacent to the Wash U campus is great, and that's what counts the most for undergrads. By the end of her senior year, she's ready to leave St. Louis, but she has had a fantastic time in the Wash U "bubble."</p>
<p>I'm perplexed as to how the students at NU and WashU could give off a different vibe (according to some posters) because the kinds of people they attract are pretty similar.</p>
<p>I'm from St. Louis and I absolutely LOVE IT. I'm also a college freshman so am very familiar with this age group in St. Louis. I have very little perspective on Chicago, Evanston, or Northwestern, but here's what I know about WashU.</p>
<p>First, everything midmo has said so far is incredibly accurate. Though I would disagree that MetroLink is an amazing monorail system, all other assertions are spot-on.</p>
<p>To reiterate, the area around WashU is near perfect for a college town. Forest Park is a great place to lounge around, everything is free, world class Zoo, etc. The Delmar Loop is nearest to campus and was recently rated the #1 road for pedestrians (or something of the like) in either Missouri or the Midwest (point being, there is a really cool "district" right by campus that I really enjoy). As a campus, WashU is absolutely gorgeous. There are very recently renovated buildings, spectacular dorms (though sometimes only upperclassmen get them), and very well-kept lawns. The atmosphere is wonderful, in my opinion. It's kind of...eclectic, I guess. Lots of brainy involved kids but in a relatively laid-back area with a really awesome Loop and entertainment district nearby.</p>
<p>Also, the suburbs around St. Louis are pretty large. St. Louis also has a very Catholic background, so if your S at all identifies as Christian he will definitely have plenty of worship options. I've also heard that cost of living in St. Louis is siginificantly lower than in Chicago (no idea what it's like in Evanston). </p>
<p>Traveling to/from St. Louis isn't difficult, but it used to be easier. As stated above, St Louis is no longer a major hub, so there are few direct flights. However, if you can make Southwest work, the "East Terminal" of Lambert is reserved especially for Southwest, which makes check in/security a breeze. As for driving, St. Louis definitely lacks reliable mass transit (unlike Chicago's El), but as Nervous1 pointed out, it's definitely possible to stay close to campus and be perfectly entertained. </p>
<p>Your son is lucky to be in this position. Ultimately, he's not going to go wrong. If I were you guys, I'd visit each school and spend time in the surrounding areas, then crunch the numbers/pros/cons, and make up your mind. Once he decides, stick with it! What a fortunate guy. Send him my congratulations for a successful high school career and best wishes for his upcoming college one!</p>
<p>Thank you Kristin and others. Southwest does fly from our city to St. Louis and I agree with the person who said that it is a great airline to work with -- they have an especially great cancellation policy which is huge if a kid suddenly decided he needs to come home later than he planned, etc. You just have to make sure you bring something to do on the plane. It's also very true that while in college most kids don't venture off campus much. My daughter in CT ventures to New York City once or twice a semester but that kind of thing is not a compelling reason to choose a school in my opinion. The feel and vibe of the school on a day-to-day basis are much more important. If St. Louis is milder in terms of weather, that might be a lot easier for a California kid to adjust to. I understand that winter near Lake Michigan can be pretty harsh.</p>
<p>I can't speak for other students, but I personally visit Downtown every other day on average. I just hop on the Intercampus Shuttle, which takes 30 minutes to get to the Downtown campus, and then walk two blocks to Magnificent Mile, Water Tower Place, etc.</p>
<p>I'm still really curious as to how NU supposedly has a more "pre-professional" or "competitive" vibe discernable from a campus visit. I don't understand what those vibes are supposed to be like. Could somebody explain?</p>
<p>yes, mimk6, the Chicago area weather in the winter can be tough! (Pretty, though, when the campus is covered in snow.) St. Louis is not entirely spared, as I recall some nasty ice storms that snapped trees and caused large scale power outages.</p>
<p>I agree with Kristin's description of WUSTL's loop district. Very cool! It is worth heading there for dinner while you are there if it fits your schedule.</p>
<p>Re post # 33 When I asked the tour guide what percentage of NU students went to grad school, he started reeling off the figures for business school, med school, and law school. When I explained that I meant grad school in academic areas, not professional school, he said he had no idea--and the seemed to think it was a strange thing to want to know.</p>
<p>The admissions officer talked a lot about internships in career areas, but said almost nothing about intellectual interests or what the U of C calls "the life of the mind."</p>
<p>I have never visited WUSTL, so I have no idea if they would have given the same vibe. Judging by their literature, I'd say they would.</p>
<p>I did my freshmen year at WashU but graduated from NU. NU is no more competitive and preprofessional. If anything, WashU is probably more pre-professional in the sense that higher fraction of them are premeds or business majors (NU has no undergrad business school; though it started the Kellogg certificate program but only 100 students are in it in any given year). According to the latest career outcome survey, NU grads went to more diverse sectors than even UChicago where <em>higher</em> fraction of grads ended up in the finance/investment sector. I suspect part of the reason why NU <em>seems</em> to be more preprofessional is because it's preprofessional programs like film, theater, music, econ (which makes people think of business), and journalism happen to be among the best--victim of its own success. </p>
<p>As for NU being more grad oriented, I don't know how some of you can say that without even studying at either school (just because NU has more nationally ranked grad programs?). As far as I know, they are research Univs yet they both have plenty of undergrad research opportunities. At NU, unique <em>undergrad</em> programs/curriculum like MMSS MMSS</a>, Weinberg College of Arts & Sciences, Northwestern University, MENU MENU</a> Program: Math Department, WCAS, Northwestern University, Kaplan Humanities Scholars Kaplan</a> Humanities Scholars Program, ISP Integrated</a> Science Program, Engineering First <a href="http://www.ijee.dit.ie/articles/Vol13-6/ijee973.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.ijee.dit.ie/articles/Vol13-6/ijee973.pdf</a>, Kellogg undergrad certificate Kellogg</a> School Certificate Program for Undergraduates - Kellogg School of Management - Northwestern University and ULP Northwestern</a> University :: Undergraduate Leadership Program...etc wouldn't be offered if NU doesn't care about undergrads. Notice how these programs are specificly designed to enrich undergrad offerings <em>beyond</em> the regular majors and minors. NU invested a lot of effort for Engineering First when it could just sit back and teach the traditional curriculum like virtually all other engineering schools do. It should be noted that while NU started the curriculum ten years ago and had made revisions to it based on students' feedback, the first-year curriculum for virtually all other engineering schools has remained unchanged. While WashU does have nicer dorms and food, it doesn't transfer to more "academic" focus for undergrads automatically. I can't speak for WashU's undergrad offerings since I was there for 1 year and therefore I don't feel I am qualified to compare; if I can't, I don't see how people who haven't even studied in either school can make comparison and judgement.</p>
<p>The University (NU) is even pro-active about having students consider fellowships and research opportunities. I just got this email today for making Dean's List (3.9 yay!)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Dear ( ),</p>
<p>When you return to Evanston, look in your mail box for your Dean's List
certificate recognizing your academic success during winter quarter.
Congratulations!</p>
<p>I wanted to take the opportunity to highlight some resources available to
you.</p>
<p>The Office of Fellowships is designed to help you launch your search for
national and international fellowship competitions that meet your
educational, intellectual, and personal needs. Fellowships fall into many
categories. Some provide funding to attend graduate school; others allow you
to study or to conduct research overseas to gain practical experience in
your field of study.</p>
<p>The Office of Undergraduate Research is designed to support student research
opportunities, including assistance with writing proposals, help with the
IRB process, and providing funding to complete research experiences, both
during the academic year and during the summer. </p>
<p>Fellowships and research opportunities are not just for seniors! Whether
this is your first time on the Dean's List or your eleventh, it's never too
early to learn about the opportunities that are available to bright and
talented individuals, such as yourself.</p>
<p>If you want to learn more, stop by the Fellowships Forum, held on Thursdays
at 4 p.m. Or, check out their web site:
Office</a> of Fellowships. The Undergraduate Research Forum
is held on Wednesdays at 4 p.m.
Undergraduate</a> Research Grants, Northwestern University. Both sessions are held at
the Fellowships Office, 1940 Sheridan Road. This is a great first step in
learning about what opportunities are available.</p>
<p>I hope you had a great spring break.</p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>(Advisor)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm sure WashU has plenty of undergrad research opportunities as well though.</p>
<p>One thing to consider is that because Chicago supposedly has so many more college internships than college students in the area to fill them, it's not that difficult to get one. Just this quarter, I interned at this nationally recognized afterschool program in the WestTown neighborhood (about an hour away from campus by train) as part of a class and was grateful to have the experience.</p>
<p>Also, I'm also of the opinion that NU students are not competitive with each other at all. I don't understand the basis of this assumption/observation.</p>
<p>Also, if you son is at all interested in medical fields, WashU's med school is connected to Barnes-Jewish Hospital, which was recently ranked number 9 in the US for hospitals. If he's interested in research, there are so many research opportunities available (many of them high caliber, top notch projects) it's almost maddening.</p>
<p>I don't know what part of California you're from, but I spent part of the past two summers in southern California (basically traveling along the coast from Santa Barbara to Los Angeles along the PCH...man I miss that trip!) and LET ME TELL YOU California summers are nothing like St. Louis summers. </p>
<p>St. Louis summers are kind of legendary in that there will be such an intense heat due to the high temperatures and even higher humidity. Stagnant, sticky, suffocating hot air is the norm here. However, as much as it really sucks sometimes, it's kind of fun. Everyone's suffering together, and neighborhood pools, sprinklers, and sno-cone joints are absolute musts.</p>
<p>Lucky for him, though, he won't hit too much of the horrible weather. It tends to cool down around October, and our autumns are very pretty in my opinion. Winters are another story altogether in that sometimes it's snowy, sometimes it's icy, and sometimes it's 60 on Christmas. </p>
<p>When they say "Don't like the weather? Just wait until tomorrow" inferring that it will be completely different the next day, they're not kidding.</p>
<p>WashU has a conventional academic calendar.</p>
<p>Northwestern has a school year consisting of three quarters, which makes its calendar quite different. </p>
<p>One of my daughter's friends is now at Northwestern. She was home all alone, with no friends, for much of September; her Spring Break (actually, it was a between-quarters break) didn't coincide with anyone else's; and she will get home much later in the summer than everybody else does, which will decrease her chances for internships.</p>
<p>My daughter also applied to Northwestern, and we didn't even think about the academic calendar at the time. But now that we've seen her friend's experience, I'm glad my daughter ended up elsewhere.</p>
<p>"Campus life at NW can be somewhat balkanized with technology students on their end of campus, the high-level performing artists on their end, and different pre-professional schools scattered in between."</p>
<p>I just want to address this, because the NU north/south "divide" gets SO overblown on CC, just like the WUSTL "aggressive marketing" gets SO overblown too! NU's campus is sort of tall and thin, hugging the lakefront. It is all contiguous and it is a 10, *maybe 15 minute walk from one end to the other -- similar to WUSTL. The frats, some residence halls, and the tech buildings are towards the north end. The middle of campus contains the library, student center and some academic halls. The south end contains sororities, other residential halls, and the music / journalism / theater buildings as well as administrative offices and is closer to downtown Evanston for errand-running. Most students are going to criss-cross campus anyway during the course of their day to take classes or visit friends; there is NOT this huge divide between the two; it's totally overblown on CC; it's just different ends of a small, easily walkable campus. I don't know the actual dimensions of WUSTL's campus as well, but I suspect it's a similar total size ... just laid out in more of a square versus a tall and narrow rectangle. That's all. </p>
<p>"The good news is that his worst-case scenario in choosing between them would still be fabulous."</p>
<p>ABSOLUTELY. It's about fit and personal preference at this point; don't intellectualize it too much! Good luck in your decision making.</p>