<p>Im an international student from Belgium, having the honor of being accepted to Johns Hopkins, Dartmouth, UPenn, UCLA, NYU-Poly, Tufts, UCSB, UCSD, Northwestern and Brown. I want to study civil engineering, and have ultimately narrowed down the list to Northwestern and Brown. My plan is to study civil engineering and possibly either double major or have a minor in economics or business management. During my college search, the most important factor for me had been reputation. Of course, now I take into account other factors as well, yet reputation still remains the most important one. Im facing a serious dilemma here between Brown and Northwestern. Here are factors other than reputation that matter to me: </p>
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<li><p>Location (Chicago vs Boston > although Ive heard Brown students dont go to Boston as easily and often as NU students go to Chicago). </p></li>
<li><p>Placement of engineering students in internships at investment banks (this a major factor for me, I want to get into i-banking during internships and after graduation. Does brown or NU have better placement at i-banks?) </p></li>
<li><p>Chance to meet inspirational people (CEOs etc.) </p></li>
<li><p>Economics double major-I will probably double major in econ as well, which dept is better? Brown or Northwestern? </p></li>
<li><p>Entrepreneurship: I want to get into entrepreneurship during my undergrad years, possibly find my own startup firm and I know Northwestern has an undergrad program with Kellogg. What about Brown? </p></li>
</ul>
<p>I know that engineering wise, NU trumps Brown, but Im not really interested in thriving at the core of engineering (e.g. stellar physics, maths etc.), but rather using my engineering knowledge to enter the world of business and finance. I think Im leaning more towards Northwestern, but Brown is an Ivy and somehow I cant turn it down easily. Thanks in advance.</p>
<p>Brown is in Providence, Rhode Island, which is an hour away from Boston by car. NU is 3 miles ~5km from the Chicago city limits. So that’s not even a close comparison.</p>
<p>There are much greater opportunities at Northwestern to immerse yourself in engineering, innovation, and the business world. Internationally, Northwestern has a much stronger reputation than Brown, esp. due to Kellogg. Northwestern’s undergraduate reputation is also stronger because it has top programs across the board from sociology to to chemistry to engineering, etc. Brown has very few top programs. Selectivity wise, 10% vs. 15% is not much of a difference. I believe Northwestern actually has higher SAT/ACT averages.</p>
<p>Reputation in consulting and finance may skew things towards Brown on the east coast as a lot of Brown alumni are from the area. In that regard, Brown has higher prestige than Northwestern. If you’re looking to stay in the midwest however, Northwestern may be a better option. Unfortunately, overall undergraduate reputation on the street is not always commensurate with quality. Dartmouth is very lackluster in graduate programs (outside of Tuck) and some undergraduate programs relative to its peers, but it has a tremendous reputation in finance as well due primarily to its alumni.</p>
<p>Brown is an hour from Boston and students rarely go in before junior/senior year…and the main reason for that is that Providence can be a little “small” as a city. The Hancock Tower, by car and without traffic, is 30 minutes from Northwestern. At Brown, you are in Providence…at Northwestern, you are in the Chicago suburbs. Most students that I spoke to at NU told me they typically go into Chicago twice a month (starting from day 1)…</p>
<p>If I were you, I’d take another look at Penn. The reputation of Wharton is probably second to none when compared to any other business school in America. Penn is also great at letting students get dual degrees from Wharton and SEAS, the engineering school. I think 29% of undergrads from the engineering school work in the financial services industry. </p>
Yes because you can take more classes and you have more combinations for arranging different classes to fit your schedule. I mentioned IEMS because it seems to be the type of engineering that would fit your interest and career goal. On top of that, NU allows more double-counting between for IEMS-Econ double major, giving you more room for electives or to get another certificate/minor such as Kellogg cert.</p>
<p>Northwestern is the higher ranked Engineering school, by far. If you could couple that with the engineering certificate, this would be powerful indeed.</p>
<p>Brown is a fantastic school, but engineering is not one of its strengths. Unless you decide to go to an Ivy school no matter what – I don’t think it’s even a close call.</p>
<p>As for reputational differences, people can argue all day long to split hairs. Even within NU, people disagree on how much difference programs like MMSS make in terms of recruiting which depends largely on employers and if they are particular about, say, quant skills. I personally think MMSS is awesome not because of the recruiting but because what students get out of it academically. In this environment, getting into IB is a crapshot even for many bright Americans from top schools. Many companies no longer “sponsor”. So I wouldn’t base my decision on something that’s gonna be largely out of your control anyway. Many people that want to get into IB don’t get in and many who are in hate it if not for the earning potential; many who thought they wanted it decided they want something else. If NU offers a lot of programs that I am truly interested and that others schools don’t, I wouldn’t let arguable yet likely insignificant reputational differences affect my decision to pursue what I am really interested in.</p>
<p>I’m always shocked when people argue that Brown is more prestigious than Northwestern. It totally is not. Northwestern is much more prestigious than Brown. If this is a matter of selectivity, the differences between them are narrowing. As I said, 10% vs. 15% is not much of a difference, and Northwestern’s SAT/ACT averages are higher. Northwestern’s programs are also of much higher quality, and it is ranked higher in US News and much higher in virtually every international ranking. Its Ivy affiliation cannot make up for this deficit, and it is actually hurt by its “lower Ivy” reputation.</p>
<p>Thanks very much everyone. I checked out all of the links you provided and spent the whole day reading them. </p>
<p>As far as i understand, reputation wise, Brown and Northwestern are on the same level, despite the Ivy status of Brown. </p>
<p>Northwestern definitely suits my academic interests more. </p>
<p>Seeing that I’m talking to NU alumni here, I have to repeat a previous question. </p>
<p>How is Northwestern’s placement of engineering (or economics, since i’ll be double majoring) students in summer internships at banks, not just in Chicago but also in NYC? </p>
<p>that sounds like a pretty subjective response wildcatalum. Northwestern has higher SAT scores than Stanford, but would you argue Northwestern’s students are therefore “more accomplished”? Vandy for instance, has recently had higher SAT scores than Northwestern coupled with a higher yield and lower acceptance rate. Yet you don’t see too many people arguing it’s more prestigious than Northwestern. Brown, most would argue has and always will be more selective than Northwestern, due to its yield (55% vs. under 38% for this past admissions cycle) and acceptance rate. That coupled with its ivy status does make it more desirable than Northwestern for high schoolers, despite Brown’s weak graduate program rankings. In fact, I would argue Brown derives its prestige from its undergraduate programs, where as other schools like Northwestern, Chicago, Berkeley, WUSTL, derive most of their prestige from their graduate programs. That’s not to say their undergraduate programs aren’t great, but rather they are more renowned for their graduate programs. That’s perhaps why the name Brown rings louder to high schoolers, but quieter to grad school applicants.</p>
<p>Additionally, you have to add the disclaimer that you grew up in the midwest and were therefore more aware of Northwestern before these ivies. It’s the direct opposite on the east coast. I was aware of Columbia, Cornell, Brown, Duke…etc way before I was aware of Northwestern, Wustl, or Rice. It was only when I was researching colleges that I came to realize how good some of the other schools out there were.</p>
<p>That’s a truly great description, but I’ll add the corollary to the rule proposed: as adults, you encounter more and more professionals, and the overall perception of the university starts to skew towards graduate rankings, and especially towards rankings in your field.</p>
<p>I will say this, as a parent, full disclosure…our son applied early decision to Brown, got deferred and, ultimately, not accepted…that being said. When we visited Brown, it was in early-April of 2011 when he was a second-semester 11th grader…we just got back from last Monday’s Wildcat Day. Now, he is a year older and we said to him, last night at dinner, the following: if we were visiting both NU and Brown last week and there was no such thing as an “Ivy League”…just top schools, there is not a doubt in the world that, head to head, we would have encouraged him to apply to Northwestern early and not Brown. So, take that into consideration…both are great schools with excellent reputations and “brands”…but, to repeat, if the words “Ivy League” didn’t exist, I’m convinced that certain “lower ivies” would lose some students that chose to go there.</p>
<p>It’s difficult to give a black and white answer as as far as placement to banks go. Even different people that are working in IB in NYC can give you different opinion about Northwestern, or Brown, or non-Wharton Penn for that matter. </p>
<p>Also, technically, placement should be based on the rate (applied vs offered), not absolute number. So when someone did a summer internship at XYZ and tells people which schools were represented, it can be very misleading. Perhaps, a lot more people from, say, NYU-Stern had applied. That the person saw, say, three students from NYU-Stern and one from NU doesn’t necessarily mean NYU-Stern is more preferred. Yet, nobody here has access to the actual placement rates. The only thing that is known is that many IBs do go to NU to recruit and NU students do get offers from there. So possibility does exist as far as getting on-campus interviews goes. It’s up to you to figure out how to maximize the chance to land those interviews. </p>