<p>For the record, Chicago is NOT grade-deflated. [National</a> Trends in Grade Inflation, American Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://gradeinflation.com/]National”>http://gradeinflation.com/)</p>
<p>brown is more selective than Northwestern and has been pretty much forever. Its acceptance rate is half Northwestern’s. Lets at least be real here.</p>
<p>We’re not denying that Brown is a lot more selective, but selectivity is not the only basis of prestige. NU’s stats are similar to Brown’s, if not higher and while in college, NU students are just as accomplished (judging by fellowship winners, acceptances to top grad/professional schools, etc). I have a lot of respect for Brown (I considered it), but to be honest, it has a reputation as a slacker school because of the loose academic requirements, though I don’t believe it deserves that reputation at all. If you ask the public to imagine which college students are in high-stress, ultra-competitive everybody-was-in-the-top-of-their-class environments, they typically don’t think of Brown. Northwestern gets mentioned a lot more with regard to that (especially in Chicago), though I’m not sure if it’s necessarily better to have that reputation.</p>
<p>ooh A-Punk … I respect the point that you’re trying to make, but I hate arbitrary statistics.
IMHO, both student bodies are so diverse academically and intellectually, that almost everyone can find their niche there. I have seen brilliant to mediocre, intellectual to prestige-grabbing students at BOTH schools and would argue the same for all schools - and I mean all. Parties are plentiful at both and who cares about percentages of parties? It really comes down to fit, and you should go where you are most comfortable at…and by this I mean not go to a school with a stereotype you want to be affiliated with - especially the ridiculous ones that gets thrown around CC, but I mean visit. </p>
<p>Trust me, I have seen kids go to Chicago for perceived prestige and NU for perceived easiness and get owned by these schools. In fact, almost all of the kids I know heading off to Chicago are not going for ‘intellectualism’ but because they think they can make a lot of money with a Chicago econ degree, which may be the case (idk) - not to say that students, or even most students do this, but that there are career-focused students everywhere. I respect both institutions significantly and I prefer NU for undergrad, but it truly depends on your impression is based off of visits.</p>
<p>admitone,</p>
<p>More people would flock to NU and make it more selective if NU has the same loose academic requirements and grade inflation as Brown does; most people prefer the easier route; it’s part of the human nature.</p>
<p>Just speaks to how little you know about Brown. I’ll let the facts speak for themselves. And don’t try to tell me NU students prefer Chicago or Michigan Law. </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/2997104-post25.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/2997104-post25.html</a></p>
<p>Yale Law School Per Capita Ranking:
Rank Name YLS Ratio
1 Yale University 15.36
2 Harvard University 18.43
3 Princeton University 36.15
4 Stanford University 38.88
5 Dartmouth College 82.62
6 Brown University 84.65
7 Columbia University 92.17
8 Duke University 132.62
9 University of Chicago 171.86
10 Brandeis University 184.75
11 Georgetown University 221.57
12 University of California-Berkeley 256.31
13 Northwestern University 278.86
14 University of Notre Dame 280.86
15 University of Virginia 311.20
16 Emory University 314.75
17 Massachusetts Inst. of Technology 332.00
18 Rice University 361.00
19 University of Pennsylvania 425.33
20 College of William and Mary 448.00</p>
<p>Harvard Law School Per Capita Ranking:
Rank Name HLS Ratio
1 Harvard University 6.80
2 Yale University 11.69
3 Stanford University 20.67
4 Princeton University 22.76
5 Brown University 29.98
6 Dartmouth College 30.69
7 Columbia University 36.07
8 Rice University 40.11
9 Duke University 42.05
10 University of Pennsylvania 44.77
11 Georgetown University 48.47
12 Brandeis University 67.18
13 Cornell University 69.07
14 Massachusetts Inst. of Technology 71.14
15 University of California-Berkeley 85.44
16 Emory University 89.93
17 University of Chicago 92.54
18 Northwestern University 97.60
19 University of Notre Dame 98.30
20 University of California-Los Angeles 113.38</p>
<p>You are just giving support to Sam Lee’s point…if you want to go to a top school and still be able to manipulate GPA requirements (Brown’s GPA system is weird) and not have to take hard classes at the same time, it’s better to go to Brown than its peers.</p>
<p>Indeed, that just proves Brown has an easier GPA requirement. Brown also probably has more people applying to Law Schools, per capita, then NU, since Brown lacks the Engineering, Theatre, and Music schools that make up a huge chunk of NU’s students. Also, notice the slight correlation between size and per capita rankings. Only the top students at a school will be admitted to a given school, and one might surmise that they try not to stack too much from any one school. Thus, fewer of NU’s top students will get in than of Brown’s, leading to a higher number compared to the greater population.</p>
<p>Frankly I’d be more interested in Brown vs. NU LSAT scores as well. My guess is Brown’s advantage is primarily from their obscene grade inflation (gradeinflation.com)</p>
<p>It’s wrong to say that Northwestern is as selective as Brown/Columbia/Dartmouth/Penn. In terms of selectivity, the only Ivy that NU compares to is Cornell.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Here you go: </p>
<p>Cornell 161
Northwestern 161
Brown 163
Columbia 163
Dartmouth 163
University of Pennsylvania 163
Princeton 165
Yale 165
Harvard 166</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/760585-mean-lsat-scores-top-universities.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/760585-mean-lsat-scores-top-universities.html</a></p>
<p>The LSAT gap between NU and Brown/Columbia/Dartmouth/Penn is no smaller than that between Brown/Columbia/Dartmouth/Penn and Princeton/Yale.</p>
<p>^The fact that WashU’s average LSAT was only 158 means the data are probably pretty old and came from the time when WashU had over 60% acceptance rate.</p>
<p>These days, NU & WashU have comparable/higher SAT than Brown. LSAT is very much like SAT and easier grading doesn’t raise your IQ. 
But Brown’s ridiculous inflation gives its students huge advantage since med/law school admission don’t really take grade inflation into consideration.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Prove this. Or come up with contrary data.</p>
<p>Some people are funny on this board. They make claims with data that they don’t know much about at the first place. It’s their job to do the due diligence but they demand others to prove the data are not current/relevant. It’s totally backward. I hope they don’t approach their work/research like that.</p>
<p>Berkeley’s recent LSAT average was 162, as opposed to 159 from that OLD source.</p>
<p><a href=“http://metrics.vcbf.berkeley.edu/Berkeley%20Template.pdf[/url]”>http://metrics.vcbf.berkeley.edu/Berkeley%20Template.pdf</a></p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You have a problem with the data, not me. So if mine is not good enough for you, then it’s up to you to come up with what is. I have no idea what would satisfy you. Nor is that my job.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>We’re not talking about Berkeley.</p>
<p>
They are not really <em>your</em> data. You took them from someone who in turn got them from others. There are at least 3 degrees of separations and you shouldn’t take data so blindly like that.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>(1) this is not true. Law schools actually do take into account the grade inflation/deflation of undergraduate institutions. They keep specific indices which adjust for the different average gpa’s at different colleges.</p>
<p>(2) you have yet to show the differences in average gpa’s between NU and Brown to justify your claim that Brown’s grade inflation is that much more “ridiculous” than NU’s.</p>
<p>(1) Law/med schools have no incentive to do that. Taking students with lower GPAs hurts their rankings; USN rankings take average GPA of the student body into account and gives no bonus to any school making the kind of adjustment you speculate.</p>
<p>(2) According gradeinflation.com, Brown’s average GPA is 3.6 whereas NU’s average GPA is 3.4. But considering NU’s average is including those from schools of music/communications/journalism/education, the actual average of college of arts and sciences, where the most prelaws are, is more like 3.2-3.3.</p>
<p>[Some</a> graduate schools, employers still unfamiliar with grade deflation policy - The Daily Princetonian](<a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/03/25/23135/]Some”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/03/25/23135/)</p>
<p>As a matter of fact, one of the LS deans echoed what I just wrote:
</p>
<p>We are talking about Harvard & Yale law schools. They do adjust for GPA’s because they will be ranked in the top 2 or 3 no matter what they do.</p>
<p>^That’s your own speculation, correct? It seems to me you like making claims to suit your position without any hard evidence/data.</p>
<p>jumpyfrog, you’re flatly wrong about top law schools adjusting for inflation/ deflation. Check out toplawschools.com for more information on that.</p>