Northwestern vs. Tufts vs. Bowdoin

<p>Approximately half of the incoming Tufts community either comes as an IR major or as a premed. The sciences at Tufts are notoriously strong in building strong MCATs and medical school acceptances. The introductory sciences (except for physics) are designed to negate any prior AP experience as to level the playing field of all students who enter Tufts. Of the students who had a 3.5 GPA who applied to medical school, 90% got in. It is warned however, that the premedical sciences are not for the weak hearted. Though the classes are not weed-outs like some of the larger state universities, the level of expectations is high enough to drive many students out. Resources are available to those who struggle, and with perserverance, many students do make it out of Tufts happily. Tufts is well respected and represented in the medical field.</p>

<p>Princeton Review, though for whatever reason hasn't updated their student opinions in a while, acknowledges the premed science strength as well.</p>

<p>It is not a question of Tufts being strong in the Sciences as it is a question of Tufts being very good in sending undergrads to Medical school. In many respects, Tufts is very similar to top LACs. It has small classes and a commitment to a well balanced education. Its students usually major in fields such as Economics, International Relations, Political Science etc... and end up going to top Law schools and Medical Schools around the nation. </p>

<p>So, in terms of research, Tufts is not that strong in the sciences. That explains why they aren't ranked highly in the individual science fields. However, the level of instruction and expectations are very high in the sciences at Tufts, which explains why they have one of the best Pre-Medicine tracks in the country.</p>

<p>I believe within the past two years there were some notable students who were theater and music majors who were going to med school.</p>

<p>There are countless numbers of schools who boast of high med school acceptance rates, what they don't tell you though, is that most schools won't write recommendations and/or consider the pre-meds who DON'T have an arbitrary GPA/MCAT score. Do you have any idea how many pre-med students had a 3.5 GPA when applying to med schools last year? 90% sounds great, but you need to put this into a proper context first. Frankly, I've not heard that Tufts was very good at the hard sciences so I'm asking you why you think that is.</p>

<p>"Frankly, I've not heard that Tufts was very good at the hard sciences so I'm asking you why you think that is."</p>

<p>Then I suppose you've been misinformed. That's one of our championing prides.</p>

<p>It's not to say that everyone has a 3.5. Medical schools recognize the rigor that the Tufts curriculum provides - it is on par with the education that can be found in the ivies. Even students with "low" GPAs from 3-3.33 still can get into medical schools based off of the reputation combined with other extraneous factors.</p>

<p>Um...care to tell me why that is (sciences are a pride at Tufts)? Using facts? And answer my question about how many of those med school applicants had 3.5 GPAs? Thanks!</p>

<p>Kiddly, I fail to see your issue. Tufts is known for pre-med. It has a rigorous science program. I heard of it even though I never studied at Tufts. Like I saif, Tufts is very similar to a LAC. Intense courseload, high expectations and standards from the faculty and very good students. A 3.5 at Tufts is like a 3.7 or 3.8 at most other good schools. A good friend of mine graduated from Tufts with a 3.5 GPA and he is now about to complete medical school at Vanderbilt, which he chose over Northwestern and NYU. He told me that he was pretty "regular" by Tufts standards.</p>

<p>Well, you've got anecdotal evidence and I've got anecdotal evidence. Does that make either one of us "right"? Of course not. I'm just asking for facts to back up an assertion, thats all.</p>

<p>I believe your question can be answered in many ways. You have to look at the student body of the Tufts community. With strong test scores and hardworking individuals, it's clear that the students are academically superior to most of the nation. The Tufts science departments cater directly to the relative strength of the academic quality of the students. It is through the combination of the rigorous program and student quality that is what makes Tufts strong and reputable in academia. The student to faculty ratio, as alexandre has pointed out, is very low. With the resources available to many students (Tufts too also delegates internships), those that have survived the trials and tribulations are well represented in the reputation the university upholds. While I do not have the data for the medical school acceptances and the GPA standings, I will try to obtain them for you.
As with any elite college, someone can ask, "why is harvard so good?" A lot of the time it can be explained by the individuals that graduate from the institution. And that, like reputation, often speaks for itself that no hard data can ever provide.</p>

<p>Forget the difference between the engineering programs. NU has an overall better reputation, along with a better engineering reputation. Not enough though overall to make one's mind only on prestige. But NU also offers a great quality of life, so I can see no possible reason why not to take a chance and apply ED</p>

<p>Both programs are respected, NU is better, but picking a school ED should be based on more than just academics</p>

<p>Yes, picking a school should be be based more on the academics. In fact, since all of the schools i'm applying to are good academically, my choice will probably be based more on the atmosphere and my fit with the school.</p>

<p>Fyi, I'd probably apply to the school of arts and science if I went to Northwestern.</p>

<p>Anyhow, what do you guys think of the difference between the libral arts school (Bowdoin) versus the biggish university (northwestern) for a science major, in particular?</p>

<p>blaineko: How'd the reception go? How interested in Bowdoin are you?
celebrian: I don't have the stats for the HPME program; I'm no genius. I'm simply a good student, very interested in the sciences.
slipper1234: Thanks for thinking that I will be admitted. That's kind of scary thought, though. Getting in, that is. Oh and you said that Northwestern offers a great quality of life. I'm all for that, but I am kind of worried about the atmosphere. I'm not positive I will like it; I think I will, but I'm having doubts.</p>

<p>I studied ChemE at NU so I can tell you a bit about the school. The ChemE (recently renamed as Chem&BioE) is very hard and I personally knew three people ended up switching to other majors, one to biomedical engg and two to industrial eng. Switching major is very easy within the same school. NU has probably more engineering disciplines than most others at its size. NU's education emphasizes also on real world application; their innovative "Engineering First" (4 quarters of engineering analysis) allow you experience real engineering before you even decide which engineering you want to pursue. This jump start gives students an advantage in future pursuits such as reasearch and in the job market. NU also has one of the most estalished co-op programs for engineering majors. If you end up there, definitely check it out and it woud really help you land a job upon graduation.</p>

<p>There are lots of premeds majoring in biomedical engineering. It's pretty strong and one of the oldest (if not the oldest) in the nation. It's a good way to explore the medical field before you decide to pursue it since you'd take classes like physiology and biomechanics for that major.</p>

<p>Organic chem (which every premed, along with chemE and chem majors, had to take) was probably the toughest among the premed required courses. Lots of Cs were given in it. A girl at my church took it over a summer and she said it was harder than anything she took at U Penn. I got a C too but since I wasn't premed, it didn't change any bit of my life. LOL! My friend got a C in the first quarter and took the second sequence in another school over the summer where she didn't study as hard and got an A!</p>

<p>"In fact, since all of the schools i'm applying to are good academically, my choice will probably be based more on the atmosphere and my fit with the school."</p>

<p>You got a right attitude. Are you able to visit them to get the feel yourself?</p>

<p>As I recall Bowdoin has a 3/2 engineering program with Columbia you do three years in the Bowdoin Physics Department and then go to Columbia for two years in thier engineering department
At the end of five years, after the completion of two full years at the engineering school, a bachelor of arts degree is awarded by Bowdoin and a bachelor of science degree by the engineering school. Students should be aware that admission to these schools is not automatic</p>

<p>Sam Lee, that was actually very helpful. If I were to do engineering, chemical and biomedical would be my top two choices. I really like the idea of using biomedical engineering as my premed major. Is it true that it is extremely hard to get a grade good enough for med school from biomedical engineering. What have you seen with grades and biomedical engineering premeds?</p>

<p>Also, you mentioned that it's easy to switch majors within the same school. Does that imply that switching from engineering to the school of arts and science is difficult. Did you know anyone who made a switch similar to that?</p>

<p>Oh, and you were wondering whether I visited these schools. And that is precisely my problem. I have visited all of them, and I'm still undecided. Although, I didn't stay overnight at any of them. But still, I should have made up my mind by now.</p>

<p>Right now I'm thinking Northwestern ED, but I'm still very much up in the air. And am very undecided on whether to apply to the engineering school or the arts and science school.</p>

<p>Kiddly - As a Tufts engineering grad, I would like to dissuade you of certain notions. I double-majored in engineering and liberal arts - not an easy feat, but one very much encouraged by both engineering and liberal arts faculty. </p>

<p>I worked for five years at an engineering firm on the 128 technology belt. My colleagues were a mix of MIT, Tufts, Northeastern, and ULowell grads - and there is a very strong Tufts representation, considering the small size of the engineering school. Certainly, an excellent firm does NOT shy away from hiring Tufts engineers. </p>

<p>The sciences at Tufts are amazing - such as chemistry and biology. Tufts, for pre-med, is one of the best in Massachusetts. I considered pre-med and was told by a nurse practicing at a hospital to apply to Harvard and Tufts, as those are the best in the Boston area for pre-med. Many physicians in Boston are Tufts grads - roughly 1/3 of the ones I've had are Jumbos. By the way, Tufts will never, by policy, refuse to let a student apply to medical school. The acceptance numbers are not artificially inflated, as any student with the requisite pre-med courses and who has taken the MCATs can apply.</p>

<p>My question to you: where are you coming across your prejudices? Are you a practicing engineer in the Boston area? If not... why the comments? You have YET to bring one iota of evidence to back up your assertion that Tufts is weak in the sciences, especially pre-med.</p>

<p>I actually don't know much about the grading of biomed engg but I don't remember hearing anything bad about it either. You hear more bad things about chemE ("bad" = too much work). The girl that transferred to biomed from chem E seemed happier afterward and told us she liked it better; so my guess is it's probably slightly better and easier than chem E. The average GPA in the engineering school is about 3.2 (B/B+). Environmental engineering is probably the easiest to get good grades in. I worked less but got As rather easily in their classes than chemE classes; go figure!</p>

<p>It seems that the more upper level the classes were, the more lenient the grading became. </p>

<p>As far as transferring between schools goes; when I was there, I wasn't aware of any restriction against me getting a degree in Art Sci. In fact, I was at one point adding environmental science (in Art Sci) as my second major but later decided to add environmental engineering instead. Few people I knew double-majored in IE/econ and one of the girls I knew majored in comp sci and econ. I also vaguely remember one econ guy told me he switched to art sci from engg school when he found engg wasn't a good fit for him. Oh, here's the interesting one: one girl who's a music major started taking a class with us; at first I was like "does she know what she's getting into?" and bet she would quit after one quarter. It turned out she was for real and eventually graduated with degrees in music and chemE! There's of course a 5 year music/engineering program you can apply to but if I remember correctly, she didn't start out in that. </p>

<p>I think during the time I was there, switching among school of engg/art sci/education seemed fairly easy. One exception is Medill (school of journalism) and I heard it's not easy to transfer TO it from another school but it's easy to transfer FROM Medill to art sci. It's not hard to see the reason behind.</p>

<p>I don't know if things have changed though. I graduated in 99. One thing that has changed which I think can potentially complicate the transfer is the engineering first curriculum. I think now every freshman takes the first sequence of "engineering analysis" in the fall and unless they offer the first sequence again in winter, I don't know how someone can transfer into that by skipping the first sequence. That's one area you should ask the dean/assistant dean about. Don't ask those secretaries cos they probably would give you wrong answer and when I was there, some were kinda b*tchy.</p>

<p>NU also has an ISP (integrated science program). You may also want to check it out; it's probably not as tough to get in as HPME (because it's not as popular) but I think you still need high stats for it.</p>

<p>While BME seems to go with with pre-med nicely, doing premed with engineering at the same time is pretty challenging. Actually most pre-meds I knew seemed to be non-engineering majors. Lots of BME are pre-med but I think some of them are already in the HPME (therefore already guaranteed admission to NU medical school) program. Usually the art sci people have the luxury of focusing on bio/organic chem because their other classes are relatively less demanding whereas you can't do that with engineering courses (esp with electrical/chemE). So in a way, you'd be in disadvantage when competing with them because you'd have less time concentrating on premed classes like bio/organ chem. The grading does differ between schools and between departments within each school. School of communication/muisc/education have higher GPA than engineering/artsci. To me, I think you should still go with what interests you and worry about the med school stuffs later. But I thought I'd also give you some insight in case you are really firm about doing premed and want to be strategic about it.</p>