Northwestern vs Umichigan?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Northwestern University
101

<p>kryzsmis, if this decision will affect your pocketbook, it is important for you to understand that there isn’t actually any fact of the matter. At the level of these two great schools, different kids (or even families) may like one better than the other and that will ultimately have to be the basis of the choice. If they’re indifferent, there’s always price, location, ease of getting there (one reason I like NU), nearness to friends, etc.</p>

<p>One nice thing to remember is that the vast majority of students end up pretty happy where they go. It’s no accident how the sides are lining up right here on threads around here. Generally if you went to X, X is better. If you went to Y, Y is better. Amazing coincidence, no?</p>

102

<p>Tougis,</p>

<p>All the points you make are fair enough. UG school choice is not the end of the world. It’s just helpful to know advantages and disadvantages of your choices, especially if serious money is involved.</p>

<p>The problem I see here is the blind fanboyism, especially when it turns into deliberate effort to mislead, like Alexandre on Mich forum, who deletes posts with unpleasant stats.</p>

103

<p>I Agree completely–that’s disgraceful behavior for a moderator.</p>

104

<p>my 2 cents:</p>

<p>I attended both schools as a graduate student and being a TA as well. My opinions are based upon my experience at both schools.</p>

<p>At Northwestern: </p>

<p>The Professors are heavily focused on their research and the quality of teaching is really dependent on each specific professor, some really good at inspiring, some mediocre.</p>

<p>The graduate student teaching assistants are relatively poor at their teaching due to English requirements (for international graduate students) and their teaching duty isn’t quite emphasized as their research. This might be a factor that undergraduates will find it hard to learn from graduate students during office hours or even in classroom.</p>

<p>The undergraduate student body: the overall quality is much superior. Most of the students are quite humbled and approachable. I was quite impressed by them when at Northwestern.</p>

<p>At UofM:
Most of professors are really good at teaching and highly responsible. It uses semester system, so that students have more time to learn in depth while at Northwestern, it uses quarter system, time likes fly-- when you are just warmed up, mid-term comes; when you think to learn more, final arrives. </p>

<p>The GSIs (graduate student instructors) are mostly quite responsible but for those first-year international ones, the teaching might not be as satisfied as expected. The overall quality is much better than those at Northwestern.</p>

<p>The undergraduate student body: due to the enrolled number difference, say, Northwestern takes in about 2000 freshmen while UofM about 6000. About 1/3 of UofM freshmen are OOS, 2000. Guessing the top students including in-state at UofM about 3000 are comparable to those batch at Northwestern in terms of academic competition. Although you might meet some sub-par students at UofM, doesn’t it mean some students would get B or below B? It really doesn’t matter what grade you get, but what you would be developed at college preparing for the job market. </p>

<p>Academic programs:</p>

<p>Michigan is better at most of engineering programs but Northwestern has decent engineering programs too, such as Materials Science. Michigan is also better at law, medical, education, and other programs (not my expertise to judge), while Northwestern has better business school in reputation, but the difference isn’t large. </p>

<p>Northwestern has more well known professors in their academic reputation.</p>

<p>Academic Facilities: Michigan has better libraries, computing, and other research resources.</p>

<p>Others:
sports–You will definitely like to sit in the Big House at UofM during the football season.</p>

<p>Ann Arbor is a very nice college town. Many many graduates miss the life after left. Evanston is a great suburb city to Chicago, but the relationship between the city and the university doesn’t run well, so some negative relationship always comes up.</p>

<p>Tradition: Michigan emphasizes the Michigan Difference, a tradition that instills into my spirits. I can’t tell what Northwestern’s tradition is but I felt the life at Northwestern went so well with respect and equality, which has greatly shaped my personality and relationship to other people. I know I still need to blend these two great traditions to reshape a new myself.</p>

<p>Overall, if you have the choices, you should know what you need and what you will do in your life as of short-term and long-term goals. Both schools definitely are a great platform for you in preparation for your dream. </p>

<p>Wherever you go, please assimilate the historic tradition that can inspire your growth and help you prepare for your life-long career.</p>

<p>Go Blue and Go 'Cats!</p>

<hr>

<p>Sorry I randomly wrote these personal opinions and did not do check on typing or grammar. If you find something wrong, please forgive me.</p>

<p>Thank you!</p>

105

<p>Awesome post, agostic. Thanks so much for sharing those thoughts and feelings with us!</p>

106

<p>I’d like to make some counterpoints… Everyone I’ve heard from said that NU professors care more about teaching, and that UMich professors only pay attention to graduates, and research. Your experience may be different, but I have tons of relatives, friends, etc. in Ann Arbor and none were impressed with the undergraduate teaching. Also, according to Princeton Review, only 2% of classes are taught by TA’s, whereas 38% of classes are taught by TA’s at UMich. I don’t care about the quality of TA’s if there are that many less classes taught by them. Also in terms of resources, NU has 7.1 billion, UMich has 7.6 billion, which per student means NU has way more. Of course Mich will have better sports, it’s larger and public.</p>

<p>You need to think about the context of what you’re saying. Also, I don’t get quite how you can speak to the undergraduate quality, when you were a graduate student.</p>

107

<p>I am a bit confused by his/her post. If he/she was a TA, I don’t see how he/she could tell how the teaching quality of other TAs. The strange thing is that TAs generally don’t teach classes at NU. They just grade homework / lab repots and help with problem sets during the discussion sessions and office hours. So there’s really no such thing as teaching quality of the TAs. At least that’s my experience as a dual-major in chemical engineering and environmental engineering (part of civil engineering). I NEVER had any classes taught by TAs during the regular academic year. When I was there, some <em>summer</em> courses were taught by grad students; I suppose that’s because professors should not be expected to teach in the summer. That’s probably where most of those 2% come from.</p>

108

<p>Sam Lee, that’s what I was wondering. Even if every TA was horrible, it’s unlikely you’d ever be taught be one. A lot of their points seemed suspect to me.</p>

109

<p>Crimsonstained, I would not take the Princeton Review too seriously. I am not sure where they got their data from, but at Michigan, only 3% (not 38%) of classes (mostly intro-level Mathematics and writing classes) are taught by TAs. I have provided you with a link that breaks it down nicely. As one can see, the vast majority of TA involvement at Michigan, like at NU I am sure, is limited to assisting professors in discussion groups. Even then, TAs are involved in only 24% of lectures as discussion leaders. I am not sure where that 38% statistic came from. I would say that TAs at Michigan are about as involved in teacher, and leading discussions, as they are at any other good university, private or public. </p>

<p>[Information</a> About Graduate Student Instructors at the University of Michigan](<a href=“http://www.vpcomm.umich.edu/gsi-sa/teach.html]Information”>http://www.vpcomm.umich.edu/gsi-sa/teach.html)</p>

<p>While I do not trust the source, the USNWR rated Michigan 6th among universities for “best undergraduate teaching”. </p>

<p>Also, while NU’s endowment is very impressive, so is Michigan’s especially when you consider that Michigan is public and receives close to $300 million is state funding annually. If you wish to compare Michigan and NU financially, you should include that in your calculation. It takes an endowment of $6 billion to generate $300 million of annual revenues. In other words, you should add $6 billion to Michigan’s $7.6 billion endowment to get a more precise figure. Where financial resources are concerned, Michigan and NU are both very well off.</p>

110

<p>One thing that struck me as funny with respect to rankings is that the same organization (USNWR) ranks one school (NU) significantly higher among U.S. universities and the other (Mich) significantly higher among world universities in their global rankings. </p>

<p>I mean THEY must not even believe their crap.</p>

111

<p>Sorry, tougis, but you miss the point of the two rankings: the global ranking is the global reputation ranking that mainly reflects research and graduate education. The main us ranking is undergrad ranking, where NU is simply much stronger.</p>

112

<p>Here’s how they describe the methodology:</p>

<p>QS World University Rankings Map - Click to enlarge
Indicators
Six indicators are drawn together to form an international ranking of universities:
40%
ACADEMIC REPUTATION from global survey
10%
EMPLOYER REPUTATION from global survey
20%
CITATIONS PER FACULTY from SciVerse Scopus
20%
FACULTY STUDENT Ratio
5%
Proportion of INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS
5%
Proportion of INTERNATIONAL FACULTY</p>

<p>FWIW, I just talked to a Freshman at American University who says that one of the thing she likes most about that school is the large number of professors she has who are foreign. </p>

<p>Anyhow, I didn’t mean to get between you fanboys. By all means, keep this fight going (while I continue to concentrate on hoping my daughter gets into either of them).</p>

113

<p>Yes, the world ranking clearly tells on graduate reputation and research, then.<br>
Tougis, if you are thinking about sending your kid to one of those schools, went would you want her surrounded by weak Michigan kids? Wouldn’t you want your kid pushed by other strong students? Especially if the price is the same?</p>

114

<p>I’m slightly more interested in NU, but not because I think there’s some disadvantage to being around “weak Michigan kids”. I just think one segment of NU is a bit more arty and its film school and particularly its writing for media program and communications program is (a teensy bit) better. Also it’s easier to get to Chicago than to Detroit and that matters to us.</p>

<p>OTOH, I think the kids might be more well-rounded and less “grindy” at Mich and that that is a GOOD thing. Why would anybody only want to be around A+ students? Also, a number of the (other) departments at Mich are considerably stronger. Finally, Ann Arbor is obviously much more fun than Evanston is–even if it’s not near a great city like Chicago. Face it, you’re going to spend a lot more time in your college town than in the big nearby city.</p>

<p>So, again, there are pluses and minuses to each of these awesome schools, and I’m not particularly interested in taking sides in your little battle with Alexandre, fun as that might be.</p>

115

<p>NU students are a+ grind s? Where are you getting that from? Mich kids are relatively weak since they score significantly lower (300 points) on sat, which speaks to raw ability and nothing else. </p>

<p>Aren’t you concerned about the low graduation rate?</p>

116

<p>More concerned about the fanboys at both schools, actually. Hard to be around.</p>

117

<p>Northwestern students are very well rounded. Good sports, very involved, arts, smarts, pretty much everything. You’d be hard pressed to find a more well rounded top school (Maybe Duke is similar). Not only is it good that Chicago’s closer, Chicago’s also better. Detroit’s a dump. And all NU kids aren’t A+ kids, only the A+ kids are… Being around well rounded, yet extremely smart kids is better than being somewhat well rounded kids who are, on average, less intelligent. And I didn’t like Ann Arbor. Blimpie Burger is literally the only part of Ann Arbor I like. Evanston, however, has Lake Michigan, is on a stop for Chicago (rather than just being kinda close like UMich and Detroit), and has plenty of good food too (Best Chicago neighborhood for food from what I’ve heard).</p>

118

<p>Wow, the food’s better too! And the girls are hotter, no doubt. Plus I’m guessing the water is clearer.</p>

<p>You guys are funny.</p>

119

<p>Tougis,</p>

<p>Glad to see you know what’s important. Only the best for your kids.</p>

120

<p>NU faculty departments are weaker in most aspects, as compared to Michigan. People in this thread keep emphasizing the large SAT difference but remember it is a public university that has a duty to educate the students of the state (this accounts for the lower test scores). The OOS students at Michigan are at the same level on their tests as those at NU and this is a pretty large part of the student body. Who you’re surrounded by is largely your own choice and Michigan has just as many smart kids as NU, even if there are a few with substantially lower scores. However, in all honesty the SAT really shouldn’t be seen as a measure of intelligence as it doesn’t trend with IQ score (which also has questions regarding its validity). I’ve known extremely smart individuals who simply had poor test taking skills and couldn’t perform up to their level on standardized tests. </p>

<p>Anywho, I rambled a bit but to finish I honestly believe Michigan is a school of equal or greater quality to NU. It has stronger faculty rankings across the board (which some claim are only for graduate but in subjects unranked for UG these will have to do), it has better sports, seemingly more friendly students, and it never graduated someone as pompous as krzysmis. Sorry but his comments often come across as obnoxious. </p>

<p>ps remember its all personal opinion</p>

<p>Cheers ;)</p>