<p>I'm very interested in the Bienen School of Music at Northwestern. Could anyone give me a sense of how Bienen's academic standards (GPA, SATs, etc.) compare to that of the rest of Northwestern, which is obviously extremely selective? I'm curious because at a lot conservatory-within-university types, candidates aren't held to as high of a standard academically as candidates to the other schools of the university, but I fear Northwestern isn't like that. I'm an average student, and I'm trying to figure out if I should apply early to Bienen or go ED to a school that I'm more likely to get into academically.</p>
<p>I can’t be much help but before we even waste our money on the application my son has to get his act score up. I believe northwestern will deny admission based on academics. </p>
<p>One can be accepted into a studio at Bienen - but all that means is that they recommend one for admission to Northwestern - if the rest of the application is not strong enough, admission will be denied. However, one suspects that the standards for admission would be more flexible depending on the talent of the applicant, yet no idea to what extent. We’ve witnessed in this forum a student who was accepted into a studio, but denied admission because of her grades and scores. </p>
<p>^That was certainly the case when I was at Northwestern (though we’re talking 25 years ago). I heard my applied teacher on the phone with admissions trying to get a student he wanted in and they would not admit based on academics.</p>
<p>That is what I have heard as well, and not just about Northwestern. I don’t know what the OP’s son’s stats are like, but while in general the conventional wisdom is that they will be a bit more lenient with music students with admissions criteria, it isn’t a carte blanche either. The admissions people realize that playing at a high level musically comes with a price on it, so a music student may not have the ridiculous EC’s, or may not have taken X AP classes, they understand the time music takes and make allowances. But if the typical northwestern admit has let’s say a 3.9 GPA (unweighted) and a 2200 SAT (and I am making those numbers up, I don’t know) that doesn’t mean a music student with a 3.0 and a 1600 SAT will get in, it means they won’t be quite as strict from what I understand. It is no different than in the Ivy league schools with athletics, big football schools will admit players whose academics are frankly non existent, but at an Ivy it means they will admit a basketball player with a 3.7 instead of a 3.9/4.0…</p>
<p>I think it comes down to what Northwestern expects and where the student is in comparison, in the OP’s case. Note that every case is different, a brilliant player who blows away a teacher/panel might get more leeway than a student who is good enough to get in, but not brilliant, it all depends. I would say if the OP’s stats are significantly far away, the likely are not going to get admitted there, based on what I have heard (not personal experience, but friends of my S who applied there). </p>
<p>My S was admitted to NU without an impressive transcript. His SAT was pretty good (not amazing, though) and he had a very good audition. </p>
<p>I’ve heard similar things about Michigan. Not to the same extent as NW, but another place where the roadblock can be the academic side of the equation.</p>
<p>Actually just finished my tour and info session at Northwestern around 5 minutes ago lol! They said the music school admissions is roughly the same as every other school at Northwestern (very selective). Of course you would need great grades and scores to get in, but if you have decent grades and scores and great musical talent, then you stand a greater chance.</p>
<p>Since NU has a reputation for being super selective and requiring many AP classes and sky-high GPA, my D almost didn’t apply…but she did. Her unweighted GPA was in the high 3’s, her ACT was good but not fabulous. She had a good audition and got in. I know another student from her high school with higher GPA and more AP classes – but she was not applying to the music school. She did not get in. So I think that the audition counts for a lot, and a music student can be admitted with scores that aren’t off-the-charts amazing.</p>
<p>My concern about getting into a top academic college with ok grades and scores because of a great audition would be how well would that student do academically. My son got a 26 act and a 3.4 gpa. I’m not so sure that northwestern would be a good fit even with a stellar audition. I want him to be able to practice and not stress about his classes.</p>
<p>My daughter was accepted to NU on the basis of a videotaped audition (live audition conflicted with another school) with good but not stellar grades (3.66) from a rigorous school, decent but not over the top SAT (2100) and no APs (her school eliminated them for more freedom in designing the curriculum). So, auditions seem to factor in strongly, which makes sense, I think. At Vandy’s Blair School of Music (which also has rigorous academic admission standards), the music school creates their list, and at that point academic review eliminates or accepts (last year, if I’m remembering correctly, slightly more than a third of the violin admits were eliminated for academic reasons, and so never received acceptance letters). Not sure if Bienen works the same way. </p>
<p>Is vanderbilt as vigorous as northwestern?</p>
<p>I totally agree with cellomom6. Just because you get in does not mean you will be happy there, if you are not so academically inclined. The non-music course load is fairly rigorous at Northwestern. Would be interesting to hear from people with similar stats who have attended recently. Also, from our experience several years ago, we learned that NU does not like to accept too many students from the same high school to maintain geographic diversity. If there are other students applying in music from your high school, and they have better academic stats, you will have less of a chance. </p>
<p>Cellomom, do you mean rigorous? Academically, yes. And, according to DV’s violin teacher at Kinhaven this summer (Vanderbilt undergrad), Blair is increasingly selective for violin… don’t know about for cello. I don’t yet know how a student’s academic standing affects the music admissions; it has not been a concern on our end (i.e. the academics are there for DV); I’m guessing there would be more weight on it in a tiebreaker situation, as @CLRN8MOM noted.</p>
<p>Lol. Yes . Rigorous .</p>
<p>Although vigorous is nice, too—wouldn’t want a dull school, would we?</p>
<p>We just got my son’s act scores back and they’re in the range I promised to let him apply at northwestern and rice. They’re so competitive for cello. It’s worth the time right?</p>
<p>Don’t they both require prescreens? Seems to me It’s worth applying because if he passes the prescreen you know
it’s worth auditioning and if not then you save yourself the travel expense etc. of the audition. Any chance of visiting to get a feel for the professors at each place?</p>
<p>It would be tough to schedule a visit that far away. You are right. Passing the pre screen will make me feel better about the cost of auditioning there. I’ve researched the teachers. I think either are fantastic. </p>
<p>Northwestern does offer regional auditions - although they’re just a video session with an admissions officer. (Or, at least, it was that way in our experience.) I’m not sure about Rice’s auditions. Visiting in person is always preferable but just not always possible, either for timing or finances.</p>