The SAT is an assessment of ** college readiness, **not intelligence. If a student hasn’t learned the material adequately or can’t proceess fast enough, then the student is probably not going to be able to keep up in a college of predominantly high-scoring SAT test takers.
As is demonstrated at UT where 75% of the class is auto admitted based on HS class ranking based on GPA, the low SAT scoring students struggle & need remedial services.
To respond to this I can just easily paste a line you obviously missed twice in a row from my original post: The reason many students choose SAT is because they are attracted to the low difficulty compared to other tests. This brings them confidence and psychological comfort. If they made the subject tests too hard, no one would be drawn to them. Students would feel discouraged from the start and not even attempt to take it.
This suggests my arguments are invalid and just whims based on quirky personality traits. There will always be few people somewhere who criticize tests. But when you have a large chunk of people all moaning about the same thing, can you still seriously consider it just “some type of person”?
My post wasn’t biased. It wasn’t a declaration of facts. It was an opinion. Like I said: I wanted to see who else thought the same as me or differently. I wanted to hear opinions. I wanted to hear MATURE opinions stated in a polite and objective manner. And I did not receive that. I didn’t just receive ‘harsh’ reactions. I received downright passive-aggressive, defensive, biased comments that even an admin apparently isn’t objective, mature and responsible enough to admit.
I know, in the end it’s my fault for having such high expectations of forums and internet in general. Point taken. Enjoy the angry life you all seem to be living, just waiting to bite. I’ll take my matter in a wiser place.
Perfectly sums up the hilarity of this post.
Lol to this:
How come this is what you picked from the messages? Nothing else good enough to be innocent I take 
How about:
or
or
or
Again: How are those “defensive”? They just don’t agree with you. You don’t want objective discussion; you want to be told you’re smart for calling out this Global Conspiracy ™.
Defensive and passive-aggressive. Is it that hard to spot? I don’t want them to agree with me tyvm for the bad joke. I want them to express an opinion in a civilized manner. Instead of posting about my hurt feelings are a basis for a lawsuit they could leave that out completely and just ask what I consider a legal basis. The sentence after that one was uncalled for and rude. Quite obvious imo.
The ‘Melodramatic’ comment was also uncalled for.
“Get used to it” is uncalled for as well. It’s passive-aggressive.
Telling me to not apply to a U.S. school and instead go somewhere else on THAT TONE (read it aloud if it helps you see what I mean) was aggressive as well.
See my point?
I have to laugh a bit as well. Opinions are biased, in virtually every case. Truly, that sentence is nonsensical. And opinions that have no factual basis are the mark of a highly uneducated person.
In fact, one definition of why we get higher educations could easily be so that we may hold better opinions. Most of life is not based on knowing a factual outcome. We make our decisions as best we can, which in most cases are opinions as to what the best thing to do is, based on the best set of facts we have available to us. Sure, there are cases where you can calculate odds, like in playing cards, and base your decision on that alone. But even then, depending on the card game, you might take into account your opinion on that “tell” you think you detected with another player. I really shouldn’t have to be explaining this to you, but the fact that you made that statement explains a lot as to why this thread is going nowhere and you are not understanding, apparently, anything we are saying.
Now you are starting to trip all over yourself. If they are attracted to it because the questions are easier, then there should be no surprise on the test itself because the difficulty levels are the same in test after test. To whatever extent there are some minor variations, those are statistically corrected for based on the millions that take the test and so everyone is judged on the same basis. And again, if a person only looks at the question difficulty and pays no mind to the time limits of the test, that is entirely their fault. College Board not only makes the parameters quite clear, they publish practice tests for free that tell you to time yourself. Unless you think consumers have zero responsibilities themselves. But if the questions are that easy, then the time limit should not be an issue. If they are just easier, then they will still do better than on the other tests. Just curious, I assume those tests have time limits as well. Why are you not complaining about them? But to the point, no one was “lured”. The questions are the same quality year after year, and the test parameters are well known and practice test are available for free.
I would challenge you to prove there are “large chunks of people moaning about the same thing”. Of course only the dissatisfied speak out. I would bet a lot the numbers are quite small with regard to the issues you raise
You have gotten point by point, factual responses to everything you posted. Other than finding some magic site where everyone agrees with you, I am not sure what more you could expect.
I had a Facebook argument with an acquaintance a couple of months ago. He shared an image that I found truly repulsive (basically saying that anyone who has to take medication for mental health is a pansy taking the easy way out of dealing with their problems). I responded to what the image said. He replied by whining that instead of attacking the image’s message, I should have asked him what he meant by sharing it. What?
Nobody owes you a nice interview where they just ask you questions until something finally comes out the way you want it to. You wrote the first post and that’s what people read and responded to. It said that the SAT is illegal and gave no proof for that ridiculous claim. So why do we need to gently coax the evidence out of you? Several follow-up questions STILL haven’t proven it – you said it’s illegal. Then that it goes against some educational regulation. As for what educational regulation? Zip. Zilch. Nada. Goose eggs.
You’ve got nothing backing you up besides a vague sense of injustice and a whole lot of bluster.
You are vastly overestimating how much care students exercise in selecting which test to take.
Different regions in the US have traditionally favored taking either the SAT or the ACT, so the vast majority of students don’t give a second thought about which test to take; they just take the de facto default one. Most students will only consider taking the other test after they have bombed the “traditional” test in their region.
American HS students probably give more thought & energy to selecting the brand of toothpaste they use than they do selecting the SAT vs other test. Most kids just brush their teeth with whatever toothpaste brand is sitting on the bathroom counter.
@Skelbo, I’m sorry man I just have to disagree with you on a few things. Firstly, The SAT and ACT both do not measure intelligence in any measure of the word. How? There is no underlying way to test intelligence as intelligence is not a general thing underlyed by a (G) factor. Someone may have an astoundingly high emotional intelligence factor, however, be absolutely terrible in mathematical reasoning, is he now non-intelligent because of this? Furthermore, Universities use these tests for one and one reason only… to see how well you take standardized tests and more simply minded the ACT’s/Sat’s. Why? What do these tests measure? They measure how well you take them, not intelligence. These tests also act as a cheap metric with circles and bubbles to depict a quanitative number upon a population to rank them in a hierarchy in the general college applicant pool not to place them in a hierarchy in how intelligent one is. Therefore, I propose we do away with standardized tests and have “actual” college admissions exams administered at the universities we are applying to #collegeboardisweaksauce.
Right. People have time to take 1 - 20 different college admissions exams. That makes sense.
I’m just going to answer the first question in the original post.
I think there is plenty of time to finish the SAT. I didn’t take any practice timed tests or anything but I finished everything with a few minutes to spare, even after taking a small break during the reading. Math is my strong suit so that wasn’t much of a surprise. I had trouble with reading, but I still finished all of the questions in the given time.
I also don’t really see the problem with tests measuring how well you can take tests. Guess what there are in college? Yep, there are tests. And one of those tests can be worth a significant portion of your grade. I don’t see why testing your test taking abilities is so bad when you will have to take much more important tests a few years from now. It doesn’t determine intelligence, but I wouldn’t call it useless.
Sure there is.
Whether you like it or not, there is a significant intelligence component to these academic standardized tests. Some students, no matter how good their teachers or how much test prep or how much extra time to take the test, will plateau out at some score level.
The SAT and ACT, never professed to measure how well you share toys with other children-- that’s what the admissions interview and essay aim to ferret out.
@GMTplus7, I guess psychological definitions of intelligence mean nothing, but just because someone does well on a standardized test does not mean they are intelligent. I’d like to see half of the spoon-fed valedictorians at top prep schools in the United States survive living on their own without their tiger parents supervision. Just because someone has a proclivity to bubble in answers on a multple choice examination does not mean that 1. they will be able to survive the intesive environment of college/university and 2. that they are actually intelligent. I do agree with you in the regard that some students are underlied at the “plateau” where no matter the teacher or prep they will be able to improve. However, when you look at the content validity of these tests the correlation of these scores proves little to none. For example,Wake Forest University, a top test-optional school, proved there was almost no difference between students submitting test scores and those who didn’t. What does that mean? Oh yeh, these tests prove exactly nothing- they benefit the lucky kids in our society whose whole lives have been taught to the test. I’d assume a better “intelligence” measure by an exam like International Baccaularette where the answers require essay response rather than mere m/c which is highly gameable and prone to varience.
In your comment about “sharing toys with children”, there is a whole lot more than mere practical intelligence that goes into being fit for college; which as true “isn’t what the tests profess to” , however, is a failing lack of consideration in the college admission process.
I have to diagree with you @PsychicPanda2 . Imperfect as standardized test are, scores do have reasonable correlation to a kid’s intelligence, reasoning ability, retention of academic concepts, logic, etc. It is perfectly valid to measure these and judge college-readiness via them, IMO. Doing well on the SAT/ACT is difficult – it is not a “proclivity to bubble in answers.” The Wake Forest example doesn’t disprove this, it just shows the university found other tools to identify some ‘smart kids’ for admission.
Much as I value writing skills, essay tests (IB, SAT, etc.) are a far more noisy and non-determinalistic way to judge kids…essay scores are overly tied to the style, attitude, and taste of the reader. Note how the SAT is dropping the essay section.
I actually think the present scheme of a college essay independent of standardized test scores is good. One kid’s CA essay may resonate with the reader at one school and be dismissed by a reader at another…that’s life. At least that kid who applies to a handful of schools has a statistical shot. When essay is part of the SAT, one rushed reader, missing the subtlety or humor, can torpedo a kid’s writing score for all schools.
@PsychicPanda2 wrote
No. If someone does NOT do well on a standardized test does not meant they are UNintelligent.
No college admits solely on the basis of standardized test scores. Only you and the OP are trying to conflate mastery of standardized tests with work ethic. Work ethic is better measured by GPA. GPA combined w SAT is a powerful screening tool for gauging likelihood of successful performance in college.
And you’ve misconstued the meaning of the word “proclivity”. Proclivity refers to tendency, not capability.
@GMTplus7, you’re entitled to whatever opinion you wish to have. However, I feel the opposite and regret to inform you that just because the OP and I are on a different side doesn’t mean that our lack of conformity is wrong. Sure I know colleges evaluate GPA and other factors, but that still doesn’t dismiss the fact that the "content validity of these exams is absolute trash. Also, I did not misuse in any shape of the word “proclivity” these students have a “tendency” to score well on these exams, however, when put outside of a multiple choice exam they falter and utterly fail for the most part. As I previously mentioned I doubt half of the spoon-fed valedictorians could score survive without their overly supportive tiger parents. The debate simply is those who do well on standardized tests support them and those who do not achieve at the same level are against them; however, It is a clear indication by many test optional school that these tests mean nothing and “predict” nothing. Also, I’m not trying to conflate mastery of anything and don’t condone or support the attitude you have of being superior to the OP and myself for having a different viewpoint. For I think you have misconstrued the meaning of the word “intelligence” as it is not measured by how well you “bubble in circles on a scantron” …that is a skill.
Luckily, the SAT also requires you to figure out which circle is correct, which is indeed an intellectual process. :-B
@bodangles I guess everything we do is an intellectual process hmm…