Not For The Likes Of Us

Prep School Admissions
1

<p>Forgive me, for I on occasion still operate in the context of 1963. My impression has always been that admission to an elite Eastern prep school is to a large degree a function of predestination.
That is to say, the legacy factor, wealth, power, and connections are as significant in the admissions process as personal ability.</p>

<p>In sum, that the dice have already been rolled.
With the exception, of course, of the prodigies, the minorities, or some permutation of the two. </p>

<p>Erroneous idee fixe?</p>

<p>I am referring to the most selective schools, those that accept one quarter or less of their applicants.</p>

<p>Again, I readily admit to being something of an artefact.</p>

2

<p>You're correct. But what can we do about it?</p>

3

<p>You should look at the percentage of students on financial aid. I think most of the top schools have at 25% on aid, and many have between 30 and 40%. Those dollars go to the lowest on the economic scale, certainly, but the grants are also fairly evenly distributed among the higher income ranges (very helpful towards midldle class incomes), including six figure incomes. That is not to say that some of those on aid do not have connections.</p>

4

<p>...And being a minority in itself is a function of predestination so thus, not an exception.</p>

<p>But not all non-hooked (in a predestined sense) prep school kiddos are prodigies. There's still plenty of room for the well-rounded scholar-athlete. He better be good though.</p>

5

<p>This exclusionist point of view is really not correct. I am not wealthy, well connected, a minority, or a prodigy and I went to an "elite Eastern prep school." Do you have to be smart? Well, yes. Are there rich kids who go to prep school? Yes, but a <em>significant</em> percentage of prep school students are of middle-class origins, and many, of all races, are far from rich. There are no golden gates around prep schools. They're not magical realms of unfathomable wealth and intelligence. They're just good schools where pretty normal kids can go get a great education.</p>

6

<p>I've spent many of hours reading this forum.
A lot of information, but more importantly, a lot of wisdom.
My daughter has started seventh grade. We agree she should go to prep school. I have zero connections. She doesn't have a hook.
My misanthropic side tells me the admission aspect will be
far less than impartial . (Reject, before thou art rejected!)
My rational side tells me that, from what I have learned here, it may very well be worth applying.
My thanks to the moderators and contributors.
I will be soliciting your counsel.</p>

7

<p>xenon,</p>

<p>If you and your daughter have decided that prep school is the way to go, then follow through. There are many schools, with varying academic requirements for admission. As you must know, you need to assess your daughter's academic profile to help determine which schools she should apply to.</p>

<p>The admissions people at those schools have seen everything in terms of applicants' efforts to impress and set themselves apart from the others. Admissions will most likely not be fooled by insincerity or dishonesty by the applicant. This will be especially true during the all-important interview. </p>

<p>True that admissions is looking for the right "numbers", in terms of the applicant's ability to handle the school's academic expectations, and you should be sure your daughter quailifies in that way to ANY school she applies. But, they are also REALLY looking for the kind of person whom they feel will fit nicely at their school, be it academics, athletics, music, the arts, etc. -- or a combination of these. And, they are looking for a person whom the school will like to have around for the next three or four years. The schools are not looking for snobs, they are looking for good kids. That quality can best be presented at the interview. So tell your daughter to be herself -- truly herself -- when she meets with admissions. If she gets along well there, establishes some rapport and reveals sincerity about her ineterests and possible goals, she will have gone a long way to get the school(s) to put a star by her name.</p>

<p>The application itself is usually filled out and sent to the schools AFTER the campus interview and tour. That is actually is big advantage for one who leaves a favorable impression on the admissions staff, as it "marks" the incoming application by setting it apart from those who did not interview so well -- even if their stats were "perfect".</p>

<p>So, yes the schools are far more interested in the person who is applying than in the applicant who also happens to be a person. I hope that makes sense.</p>

8

<p>I think you make some very important criticisms, though they are drastically overstated. At some point this country needs to have a serious conversation about stratification and the educational system--it is simply not realistic to expect a handful of prep schools to educate all the smart, driven, deserving kids out there. There are simply too many of them.</p>

<p>That said, I applied as a financial aid student during the mid/late 90s and got in everywhere I applied, including one school in the elite category you mentioned (<25% admit rate). I was neither a prodigy nor a minority, and coming from a working class family I had neither the parental involvement prep schools like to see nor ANY financial resources. I made it clear from my first contact with schools that my family scraped by from month to month and could make no contribution towards the cost of my education. I did have perfect test scores, As and Bs in school, and good interview skills for my age.</p>

<p>Admissions have become a different--and more competitive--game since I applied. But my point is that, despite the occasionally obsessive chatter on this board, lots of kids who don't fit into your narrow categories attend and thrive at these schools. And many schools, including the one I ended up attending (Chatham Hall), are expanding their financial aid programs considerably. As more schools move to pseudo-need-blind admission systems, I do think the system is improving.</p>

<p>To be honest, if I had read this board when I was a 9th grader dreaming about a place where people cared about learning, I probably would have felt extremely discouraged. I'm glad I didn't, just like I'm glad that I didn't focus only on the biggest name schools when I applied, and that I chose to attend a school that gets less attention on boards like this. CC offers a lot of great information, but don't get sucked into constantly worrying about your child not being enough of a superstar.</p>

<p>Good luck to you and your daughter!</p>

9

<p>Naoka, well said</p>

10

<p>Wasn't it Kenneth Clark who said that "cynicism can kill a civilisation just as surely as bombs"? I once like xenon had a seventh grader who hungered after an education. We had zero connections, no hook, and no money. All we had was a child who needed to be in a community where learning was important. It can be done, we did it: twice. </p>

<p>Get with the programme, throw in a focussed application where your childs hunger for what the schools have to offer her shines through.</p>

11

<p>The thing I think you'll find at most top prep schools is that just about everyone has something special. There are great singers, math students, athletes, artists.....If you can get across something really special about yourself, the schools will want you.</p>

<p>There is no doubt there will always have to be a majority of full payers, just like at top colleges. And a lot of aid goes to kids from programs like ABC and Prep for Prep and top athletes. So the bar is probably highest for middle class white and asian applicants who need some aid.</p>

12

<p>The surest way not to get in is not to apply. Yes there are a lot of extremely able applicants but they also put on their pants one leg at a time, just like you. That being said, Suze is right, be realistic. iI you need money, apply to schools where your're in the top third of the applicant pool (easy to figure out--we went through the process several times in the "Jonathan" threads) and apply to several schools. I have favourites that are not necessarily as well known as Baltzell's 16 "St. Grottlesex" schools everyone has heard about but which will give an exceptionally fine education to a child that wants to mine them for their riches.</p>

13

<p>xenon,</p>

<p>It is interesting that you and your daughter have decided that it is best for her to attend a boarding school?</p>

<p>Can you give us what you both are looking for in a boarding school that you are not getting from your local educational opportunities. People attend boarding school for a variety of reasons. </p>

<p>A common reason is that the top boarding schools are perceived (that is a hotly debated item) to give some advantage in college admissions. Their current school may have every course they need, but they are looking for a name brand diploma, much like people look for an Ivy League sheepskin.</p>

<p>Many of us (myself included) were disillusioned with our local educational, special program (arts or in our situation athletic) opportunities.</p>

<p>Others yet, think their child would thrive better in the small class structure that allows more direct teacher/student interaction.</p>

<p>And many more are there for the adventure, the student looking to take on the challenge of managing his/her own affairs away from home.</p>

<p>I understand that you are concerned financially, but as other posters have noted, many schools give many opportunities to middle class students who are just great kids who work hard and achieve. You do have to be careful and read the FA pages of school sites carefully, as some are more committed to full financial support than others.</p>

<p>Please share with us your objectives, for your daughter's education...</p>

14

<p>Thank you to all of the above for your kind and well-reasoned replies.</p>

<p>Goaliedad, I'll be blunt.
My daughter goes to a small non-denominational private school which is unaccredited. There are six kids in the seventh grade class. There are no extracurricular activities. No awards. No class rankings. No advanced placement classes as you would know them. No team sports. No clubs. </p>

<p>It sounds terrible, doesn't it?
I thank God for every day my kids attend there.
It's a phenomenally good school.
I don't know if the prep school admissions people are going to believe that, however.</p>

<p>The first grade class of 20 is fed by the kindergarten, which has 40 students. Preference is given to siblings. Obviously there were a lot of disappointed parents. Two places in the first grade class were held open to outside applicants.
There were more than 80 applications for those two spots.</p>

<p>My daughter's starving for the myriad opportunities the prep kids have. And I suspect she may not prosper at our local high school, which has 700 students in the freshman class.</p>

<p>My daughter is a unique kid, in an unusual situation.
You can understand why a forum like this is so very valuable to me.</p>

15

<p>I doubt the preps could care less whether the school your daughter presently goes to is accredited or not. The test is whether the child is literate, can do basic mathematics and has a hunger for education which is demonstrated by commitment and some achievement in something, music, language, mathematics. An obvious, available way to demonstrate this commitment is to be in a choir, to play piano/cello, to read a little bit of latin/french/spanish. It is not that hard.</p>

<p>The second part is to demonstrate that the parents are committed to the type of education on tap at the various schools and are willing to pay their fair share of the cost relative to gross family income. Hotchiss once had an aid calculator but now publishes a chart listing average aid at various income levels. St. Paul's site informs us that by and large they will provide full tuition if family income is below $65,000. Since all the schools use basically the same system of need based aid, it is not hard to figure out what this is going to cost at any of the first tier preps you seem to be interested in. </p>

<p>There are some schools that provide some merit aid and some citizenship type awards. Peddie and St. Andrews-Sewanee come to mind ( both very good schools by the way). St. Paul's has an important classical honours scholarship you can access at the cost of having your child learn some latin. (Not that difficult).</p>

<p>The third step is to establish your childs academic credential. Have her sit the SSAT in grade 7 to get a rough feel as to where she would sit in the admission pool at any particular school, and then apply to three or four schools that fit spiritually and intellectually, and where she is in the top third of the applicant pool. Piece of cake, good luck.</p>

16

<p>Xenon,</p>

<p>It actually sounds like your daughter has a terriffic educational situation right now - a small class with lots of teacher attention, in a small school where she doesn't get lost in the crowd. And it is competitive, which is a good thing.</p>

<p>Now to try to clear up a couple of things... None of the schools where my daughter applied asked about where she ranked in her class. They did want to see her academic transcripts with some information on the content and level (honors or regular) of the courses she was taking to see if it was the most rigorous she could be taking.</p>

<p>In your case, which is not that uncommon (believe it or not), the lack of grades will make evaluating your daughter different for most schools. They have probably ask for a write-up from either the teachers or administrators of what content she has been taking (usually listing text books used and/or a list of skills taught). They will want your teacher to indicate whether she is at the top or bottom of her class (although in a class of 7 at a competitve school, unless you are the bottom student, I wouldn't worry too much). </p>

<p>I would also recommend that the teachers also include a sample (copy) of a graded paper (essay type) to demonstrate the level of work she is doing to validate the write-up of the courses. </p>

<p>And of course, the teacher's letters of recommendation will be very important. I suspect that you probably will have great support from those teachers (it being a small school tightly knitted together). I think they would pull for a kid to be able to get away from the big public school and would do an excellent job of describing her virtues.</p>

<p>As to ECs... I'll say something that will raise a few eyebrows with the kids here, but school based, adult organized ECs for the most part are not as valuable as the projects your daughter has taken on outside of school, be it scouting, or sports where kids are given the opportunity to learn and demonstrate leadership and independent activity towards a common goal.</p>

<p>Schools want kids who are motivated to take on challenges beyond academics and make the most of the opportunities they have. There is a post someplace on the college side by an admissions officer at MIT who quite eloquently explains that MIT turns down lots of perfect SATs who are what he calls "grinders" -- kids who can grind out tremendously amounts of difficult work and activities but have no passion outside of school. They look for kids who have travelled a different path even though their SAT scores may be a couple hundred points lower. </p>

<p>Competitive schools have 2, 3, or 4 times more qualified applicants than they have room for. They are looking for reasons to accept a candidate and pull them out of the pile. It is easier to pull out 200 out of 1000 applications than to find 800 reasons to reject qualified applicants.</p>

<p>I'm sure your daughter does something else besides eating, sleeping, and schoolwork. Being in 7th grade, now is the time for her to be finding something outside of the class she loves to do and pouring herself into it. To the level it is self-directed activity, so much the better.</p>

<p>Don't let the unusual school situation deterr you from a prep school opportunity. I've known of kids whose were homeschooled by travelling business people - living life on the road at times who have made it into prep schools. Talking about not having accreditation!</p>

<p>Now I'm not saying your daughter is a slam dunk because she has an unusual background. What I'm saying is that she is probably easier to make stick out than most well-heeled suburban kids. You've just got to understand what the schools want to see and make it come to them.</p>

<p>I applaud your looking to continue the small-class, small-school opportunity for your daughter. We never knew how good it could be until this year and I can't believe how much we've missed having my daughter at the big public school.</p>

<p>I also applaud the fact that you chose an unacredited school (after careful consideration) because you saw the advantages that its size presented. Not all prep schools are the same. Some of the bigger big names mentioned around here are probably not appropriate for your daughter as they are close to the size of your local public high school.</p>

<p>My daughter is in a smaller school (330 students) and I am very happy with that size. It is not one of the ones mentioned on this site (and is not all that selective academically as in addition to the typical higher achieving students, they also handle LD issues (with addiditional support)), but has all the academic challenge that my daughter needs and they do an excellent job of challenging her. Her class sizes are small (9-12 students) and there is plenty of off-hours adult interaction (and nurturing) in after hours activities (athletics/arts) and at the dorm (22 frosh/soph girls + 4 staff member families in her dorm).</p>

<p>I believe there are many of these schools out there. I'm sure that several other parents here can help you identify them as they are more geographically close to them and may be more familiar with them). I don't post my daughter's school on the board, but if you PM me, we can discuss it further just to give you an idea of how it meets our needs.</p>

<p>Personally, I like the reasons that you are looking at boarding schools. You have time to find the right school as your daughter is still a year from applying for 9th grade.</p>

<p>I'm not sure what part of the country you are from, but visiting a couple of closer schools this year to get a feel for what you like and don't like might not be a bad idea. Most schools will also link you up with a parent of a current student who you can ask question of to get a better feel as well.</p>

<p>One last thing, I am not hung up on the name brand on the school door. I cannot imagine that my daughter could possibly master all the classes taught at some of those schools. I do think that she will be challenged by the course offerings at her current school for 4 years and that is all I need. Anything else beyond that, to me, really doesn't add value to my daughter's education.</p>

<p>Feel free to keep asking questions here or by PM.</p>

17

<p>Paleozoic, Goaliedad, again, thank you. Your replies are both encouraging and percipient.
I own up to having a bit of cynicism about the admissions process.
When I was in eighth grade (back in pre-history) one of my teachers suggested I consider prep school. Knowing next to nothing about the subject or the process, I sent off a nice little handwritten note to America's Finest Prep School requesting an admission application. Some weeks later I received a small, stiff, buff colored envelope with a single sheet of paper enclosed.
The reply was brief, only two sentences: "Thank you for your interest in ******** ****** Academy. We regret to inform you that the class of 19** has already been filled".
Gee, thought I, they're already filled up a year in advance!</p>

<p>Fast forward a few decades, and we decide it would be well to send our daughter to first grade at the local private and exclusive day school. We prevail on a couple of acquaintances who have children attending there to write letters of recommendation. These acquaintances are significant donors to the school.</p>

<p>Ayup. Another little buff colored envelope with regrets shows up in the mailbox. Damn, thinks I, somebody splain me how this game is played.</p>

<p>It all worked out for the best, because that led us to finding a brand new school that was just beginning with a single class of first graders.</p>

<p>And now you guys are splaining the game to me.</p>

<p>In another post I would like to review my daughter's strengths and weaknesses; attempting, of course, not to be insufferably paternally prolix.</p>

18

<p>It seems to me that the boarding school "game" is played with many of the same rules that the college admissions "game" is played. If you are certain that your daughter would thrive in a boarding environment, it is wise to select schools that are reaches, matches and at least one safety. If you can do this and only apply to schools that you and your daughter love, I think you will have some success in March when acceptance/rejection letters are sent out. </p>

<p>Regardless of how talented and hard-working the applicant is, I think most college applicants recognize that it is very unwise to apply exclusively to ivy league schools. I think the same logic applies to the top boarding schools. </p>

<p>You are in a good position because you have time to consider which schools would be a good fit for your daughter. I agree that it is wise to take the SSAT this year just to get a feel for how she might do. This will help in school selection. She will have to take it again in 8th grade. </p>

<p>During the winter of 7th grade, my son declared an interest in boarding school. This was a new concept to both of us, and we both wanted to learn more. A few boarding schools allowed us to visit in May for the tour but not the interview. This was very helpful. After touring, we knew that it would be a good move for him. We also started to profile what kind of school would be right for him. If you have the possibility of doing a few tours in May, I recommend it. Not all schools will allow it.</p>

19

<p>It's customary, I believe, for the parents of a firstborn child to initially assure themselves that their offspring is normal, and then to look for signs of brilliance.
And of course these hints of exceptional talent are never hard to find in any child.
We were gratified that our daughter learned to read at three, but were assured that this was in no way unusual. Her devotion to reading seemed a little extreme but not troubling. Her kindergarten teachers were very pleased with her.</p>

<p>After being rejected by the private school, we elected to enroll her in the local parochial school. All went well the first day. The second day she brought home a note from her teacher, saying that she had been "disruptive" in class.
Phone call to the teacher revealed that, in the middle of the reading lesson, our daughter had raised her hand and said
"Can't we just get on with this?"
Similar issues the next day. The following day we got a call from the principal's office, requesting a conference with us at our earliest convenience.</p>

<p>The principal was a small, elderly nun who had been teaching for nearly fifty years.
She very briskly told us that she had spent several hours talking with and testing our daughter, and that she would like her to start in the fourth grade the following Monday.
This was a bit of a stunner. I objected. The principal told me, quite kindly, that our daughter really could not stay in first grade; that it would not be fair to her or to the other children.
And that was her last day in parochial school.</p>

<p>Then we began checking out the local public school.</p>

<p>"Yes," said the counselor, "we do have a program for exceptional students."</p>

<p>"And what does that consist of?" says I.</p>

<p>"Well," says she, "One day a week they do independent study outside the classroom."</p>

<p>"And how long is this independent study?"</p>

<p>"One hour".</p>

<p>"And what do they do in independent study?"</p>

<p>"Well, they are allowed to read any books they bring. Subject to teacher's approval, of course."</p>

<p>At that point we knew we had a problem...</p>

20

<p>You might want to look into gifted programs sponsored by universities. I don't know where you live, but the largest is run by Johns Hopkins. Here is their website: <a href="http://www.jhu.edu/%7Egifted/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.jhu.edu/~gifted/&lt;/a> . Somewhere on their website, they describe programs run by other universities. They only cover certain geographies. but I think all the US is divided up by these programs. I think the others are Duke, Northwestern, University of Iowa and Colorado.</p>

<p>While the top boarding schools would like to know about your child's giftedness, I think that what they really want to know is what your child has done with those gifts. Your daughter will be competing with some applicants who have similar gifts. I know that is hard to imagine, but it is a good thing to keep that perspective.</p>