<p>I was Greek at a large state school where Greek life was a large part of the scene but not necessarily completely dominating like at some. Every year girls would go through recruitment and either not receive a bid or not receive a bid from the sorority they wanted and they would choose not to join any. These girls usually were upset for a while but as time passed they found their niche is other areas of campus. Some went through recruitment the following year and ended up getting a bid from their choice sorority. Others found a great group of friends outside of Greek life and never gave the scene another passing thought. I had a great Greek experience so I have positive things to say about it, but I also had a lot of non-Greek friends who had extremely positive college experiences as well. Encourage him to pursue other organizations of interest on campus and I'm sure he'll end up finding a great group of friends in no time.</p>
<p>Regardless of personal disdain people might have for the Greek system, surely it's possible to understand how difficult and painful it would be for a college freshman to be rejected when he or she openly sought acceptance from a fraternity or sorority in the Rush process.</p>
<p>Whoever mentioned that "steep learning curve" was so right about what goes on during Rush. If a student or that student's parents, relatives or friends weren't traditionally geared toward the sort of social life that the Rush process mimics -- it feels like country club cocktail party small talk where you ether succeed brilliantly or are executed at dawn -- then you just might not click with Rush. It says absolutely nothing about whether you are smart or kind or witty or bound for future success. It just says that you weren't meant for the cookie cutter assembly line of the Rush process this time around. </p>
<p>It will never sting more than it does for him at this moment and in the next few months as the pledges are busy with their activities. There must be some non-Greek philanthropic or interest-oriented groups on campus and NOW is the time for him to join one of those, many of which he would have no time for if he was busy doing fraternity activities. </p>
<p>If he remains an Independent, he might find that by the time he's a sophomore or junior, there will be a certain cachet attached to that; he will have a manly "unknown quantity" compared to all the frat boys who are defined, fairly or not, by the Greek letters on their t-shirts. </p>
<p>Best of all, he seems mature enough to deal with his disappointment honestly and not decide to demonize the system just because he had a rough landing. If he really wants in a certain frat, he can get in next time around by developing friendships with guys who are in that frat and who, having gotten to know and like him over time, will wave him in with no further ado. By then he probably won't care much one way or the other. And while some students are defined by their Greek letters, he'll be happier if he doesn't define himself either positively or negatively by the fact that he isn't wearing them.</p>
<p>Dizzymom--your description of how and why it can be painful for a student reinforces for me just why I do, I have to admit, have what you characterize as disdain for the system. Its emphasis on country club values and mores perpetuates the kind of judgmentalism that causes the pain that you and the OP describe. I feel for these students, and wish they were in an environment where such a stratificating system didn't seem like a social need.</p>
<p>I am glad to see your comments, it is good to have all opinions expressed but if you would please explain in a little more detail what is country club values.</p>
<p>Garland,</p>
<p>I'm happy to see that you can have empathy for these students. I wonder, though, why you would want to enter the dangerous territory of judgmentalism yourself by deciding what kind of activities and values are best for anyone other than yourself? </p>
<p>I don't know if you've been in a sorority or fraternity yourself or how much time you've spent with those who have. My own experience was that just as in every other area of life, there are lovely people in the Greek system and not-so-lovely people, just as there are everywhere else. The Rush system is what it is and in your opinion, it may be flawed. Maybe there is a better way to get to know several hundred people in three days and decide which thirty to forty-five would fit in best in your "club", a club that on many or most campuses, the members of which will actually be living with one another over a period of years. </p>
<p>Imagine if we had to interview boarders for our home, given a deadline like sororities and fraternities work with -- surely there would be some people who came to your door who you might think were perfectly nice but whom you couldn't imagine meeting up with in the shower, right?</p>
<p>Your answer might be to abolish all such "clubs", but I think human nature would ultimately prevail and before too long, someone would come up with the idea to start the very thing all over again. FWIW, sororities, at least, seem to have democratized the process quite a bit in recent years, doing away in many cases with the personal letters of recommendation that used to create a sort of advance social hierarchy and planning deferred Rush that gives students a chance to settle into campus life before making the decision to join a sorority. </p>
<p>Just for fun, I've looked up some famous fraternity and sorority alumni:</p>
<p>Sigma Chi: John Wayne, David Letterman, Brad Pitt, Carson Daly, Matt Groening, Tom Selleck</p>
<p>Sigma Alpha Epsilon: William McKinley, Pete Maravich, Elliott Ness, General Richard Myers (Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff), Troy Aikman, David Spade, Fred Savage</p>
<p>Pi Beta Phi: Jennifer Garner, Faye Dunaway, Kay Baily Hutchinson, Betty Cole Dukert (producer of "Meet the Press")</p>
<p>Kappa Kappa Gamma: Jane Pauley, Candace Bergen, Kate Spade, Ruth Leach Pollack (first woman VP of IBM), Jane Swift (youngest governor, Governor of Massachusetts)</p>
<p>There are lots more...these can't all be bad people, can they?</p>
<p>Not "bad" people. "Bad" environment.</p>
<p>Nice, glib, soundbite. You might get invited back for a second look at the frat house. It would have to be a house on the judgmental side of the tracks, however. </p>
<p>I didn't think much about the "environment" when I was in a sorority in college, but when my daughters pledged my sorority at their university, even my Independent husband was thrilled. The sorority house was far safer and in a much better and more attractive location than the other living options they had. Local sorority alums were on hand regularly as advisors, providing a watchful eye and offering a shoulder to girls far away from home if they needed or wanted it. The food was excellent. There was structure around the meetings and activities that kept the girls engaged and mentored by older "sisters" and there was a GPA requirement that was higher than the overall campus standard. If drinking is the issue, I imagine they did drink, but I seriously doubt that they would not have tasted the grape had they not pledged the sorority. </p>
<p>In the end, they also made incredible friendships that also provided networking opportunities that helped lead to job and living opportunities after graduation. I'm puzzled as to how this would be construed as a "bad" environment.</p>
<p>Wow does the possibility of feeling left out ever end? Sorry to hear about the rejections, the feeling sure does sting. I hear that there are 'in' crowds even in retirement homes. Unfortunately i suppose its a aspect of life that most of us get stung by at one stage or another. </p>
<p>I am not from the states so all i know about the Greek system is what i have seen on T.V/movies (revenge of the nerds style). I was just wondering with the schools that do not have the system, the students would still get the connections from friends/teachers/team mates etc dont they? Or does a psuedo greek system develop? </p>
<p>Is the attraction to greek life mostly cultural? I suppose we dont question students being rejected from sporting teams, I just could not imagine a similar system working in most countries. I guess there are always going to be groups and clubs (official or unoffical) of some kind in society, they are just usually more subtle in telling the world who is in and out...</p>
<p>
[quote]
I hear that there are 'in' crowds even in retirement homes.
[/quote]
LOL! I work at a senior center that's adjacent to a senior residence, and I can tell you that you are SO right! Fortunately, those of us who are uncool will have had plenty of time to adjust to being in the unpopular group by the time we get to Happy Acres.</p>
<p>For those who just don't get Greek life - and I'm one - I recommend looking at GreekChat.com. It's a fascinating, generally well-written discussion board that somewhat un-demonizes the rush thing. I still don't like it and don't entirely understand why others do, but I'm glad I picked up a little perspective there.</p>
<p>We humans are into the notion of pecking orders, aren't we? Hence the fraternities, country clubs, Ivy secret societies, and the like.</p>
<p>Just wanted to chime in and thank everyone for their comments. I'm sure the discussion of the value of fraternity/sorority affiliation and practices could go on forwever, but this (at least from my perspective) was really about the feelings of a few 18 year olds, not an indictment of the system. There are many disappointments in life and how they learn to handle them is part of growing up and dealing with life. I know this was a devastating blow to my son in the short run, but I believe that in the end, he will get through this and have picked up a few life lessons on the way.</p>
<p>DizzyMom #27: all the virtues you ascribe to a sorority are not dependent upon a sorority; some college can and do provide them outside the Greek system. QED.</p>
<p>And any sort of system where "it feels like country club cocktail party small talk where you ether succeed brilliantly or are executed at dawn" should not only be swept into the dustbin of history, but run over with tank treads and be sown with salt first.</p>
<p>I got "country club values" from the fact that Dizzymom said that the kids who don't get in don't know how to make "country club small talk". I wouldn't be able to, either.</p>
<p>Dizzymom: I am reacting entirely to your description of the process. You made it sound grim and mean-spirited.</p>
<p>"the sort of social life that the Rush process mimics -- it feels like country club cocktail party small talk where you ether succeed brilliantly or are executed at dawn -- then you just might not click with Rush. It says absolutely nothing about whether you are smart or kind or witty or bound for future success. It just says that you weren't meant for the cookie cutter assembly line of the Rush process this time around. "</p>
<p>Ick, ick, and ick.</p>
<p>
[quote]
** Whoever mentioned that "steep learning curve" was so right about what goes on during Rush. If a student or that student's parents, relatives or friends weren't traditionally geared toward the sort of social life that the Rush process mimics -- it feels like country club cocktail party small talk where you ether succeed brilliantly or are executed at dawn -- then you just might not click with Rush. It says absolutely nothing about whether you are smart or kind or witty or bound for future success. It just says that you weren't meant for the cookie cutter assembly line of the Rush process this time around.
[/quote]
**</p>
<p>So I thought......I was just trying to understand how country club cocktail party small talk became a value that's all. I think I know what you are talking about and I am not trying to parse words. I guess I thought you were assigning some monetary/financial part to this whole discussion in addition. Were you?</p>
<p>Maybe the number one "value" required to successfully manage Rush: a sense of humor.</p>
<p>Geesh. My description of it was simply that; a description of how it CAN seem to those on the front end of the learning curve. Haven't we all broached new social experiences where we would rather go sit in our car in the parking garage rather than run the gauntlet of all those women with their narrowed eyes and the oh-too-jovial men? There I go again, "describing". Let's outlaw sororities, fraternities, country clubs and every form of the cocktail party. </p>
<p>Wait, no. My husband would actually vote for that...</p>
<p>To me it is just like any other social group.......you have the farmers who don't like the urbanites who don't like the suburbanites......it is really all around us.</p>
<p>That being said I vote to keep cocktail parties which are just now enjoying a resurgance and the napkins and stemware are all so fun.</p>
<p>Dizzymom--I don't think anyone should outlaw any of those things (obviously). They're just not games i would want to play. I get it that some people do, but I also get, from reading these boards, that a lot of feelings get hurt. Which, to me, is a dang shame.</p>
<p>I had three sons who happily joined a Frat at their college. One was a member of the Council in his Junior and Senior years, the other two lived in the Frat house and all three throughly enjoyed the experience. One other son, did not join and was very active in other areas of the College. The colleges they attended Lafayette, Allegheny and Wash U (St Louis) were all very Frat orientated and so forth.</p>
<p>That said, while I remained neutral on the subject during their years at college, now that my D is a Senior in HS and getting ready for college, her older brother (Lafayette Frat member) when she asked his advice about colleges and Frat/Sorority membership, he was very quick to state that he did not want any daughter of his or sister of his to go to a Frat oriented campus.</p>
<p>The simple fact is (IMO) Frat/Sorority by their very nature or inclusive and exclusive at the same time. Views from within and without are quite different and mutually exclusive.</p>
<p>My D is looking at some colleges with Frat/Sor and others without. Her final selection will depend on her view and feelings. </p>
<p>When it is all said and done, it is the individual that will decide, not the parents My personal opinion echoes my S and I would rather no Frat/Sor existed. That is not realistic and it not my decision to make, so I just cross my fingers and wait.</p>
<p>That sounds a little like party with the fun girls but marry a virgin to me.</p>
<p>Three frat bids!!!</p>
<p>I am the original poster, and my son received three frat bids. The frat of his choice is not one of his original choices.....he discovered a great group of kids that all got bids for this one frat.....and that's the one he is joining.</p>
<p>rush was very hard on me as a parent, because I was on the outside looking in.....feeling the insecurities that most freshman most go through as they are being judged....Judged by their peers, and pretty much forced to balance going out every night of the week till the wee hours and keeping up the grades. (yes, his grades are still up there).</p>
<p>After all of this, he has also discovered that while alcohol is fun, it is not a necessary part of life....although once in a while is OK.....not the overindulgence that he was introduced to.</p>
<p>I am very happy for him....he wanted a frat and he got into three. (it is a very frat dominated school).</p>
<p>Maybe I can sleep peacefully from now on. For the most part, I never experienced frat/sorority life....but if that is what my son wants, then Ihave to respect his feelings.</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
<p>I am so glad for your S. I know that not everyone is fond of frats but they are a great thing for those who want this experience. He will make friends that he will have for the rest of his life. Good news and a happy ending for this situation.</p>