<p>Something feels disjointed here. If your parents have told you they will contribute $6,000 to your education then they have been upfront with you. Your parents are telling you that their retirement dollars are just that, their retirement dollars, and it sounds like they did not wish to take on more debt against their home with home equity dollars. This is their perogative. It sounds like your dad has been upfront with you. I can respect and understand their position. The disconnect sounds like you wish to attend a school that cannot be afforded. If you have the "smarts" to get into Chicago then perhaps you will find a college that will supplement your $6000 with merit based dollars that are not dependent on financials.</p>
<p>^^^ Sure, he's been upfront with the OP, but it seems unreasonable for dad to flat out refuse to list the info, even when OP has told him it's used for the calculation only in a minor way. I think the gist of her concern is that she wants to be able to apply for need-based aid, and she can't even find out the EFC without this information. Whether the parents are willing to meet the EFC is another issue, but it would be nice if she could at least apply for the aid. (Getting substantial need-based aid with one parent having an income of $140k seems a little unlikely, however.)</p>
<p>Uhmmm, sorry, I suspect the OPs parents are likely knowledgeable enough about their own assets to know that perhaps they will not qualify for significant aid and are disinclined to share that information with a college.</p>
<p>^ Momofthreeboys is right--that's how my dad feels. I know that I'm probably not going to qualify, but I've got to try, right? Anything will make a difference. After that, I'm going to try and see how I can bridge the -quite large- gap between my EFC and how much my family is actually providing.</p>
<p>The real trick is trying to convince my dad to just give me the numbers. If he doesn't...I'm inclined to either get my mom to get them or help me make estimates.</p>
<p>OP...maybe you can get dad to post on CC his qualms about giving away his retirement info. Maybe another parent can help him to understand the value of your financial aid application being complete.</p>
<p>Well, I know his issue is "it's none of their business!" (which is what he exclaims whenever they ask him something that he doesn't want to give out :P)</p>
<p>I'm going to try my best to convince him. If nothing else, I'll go to my mom first--she acts more based on emotion while my dad is the logical thinker. So hopefully I can appeal to her feelings so she'll want to make my dad put the numbers in.</p>
<p>Is that really manipulative? :(</p>
<p>Golddust, have you had an honest conversation with your parents about your choices of colleges? The fact that they have put out a dollar amount to you that clearly they know will not be enough for you to go where you want makes me wonder what they are thinking you should do to gap the amount. Are they expecting that you are intelligent enough enough to close the financial gap with scholarships? I notice your loaction is Arizona, is the amount that they are extending enough for you to attend your state universities? There is still a missing piece of your puzzle that I am wondering about. If you don't know what the underlying story is then perhaps you should ask your mother as she may very well understand what's up.</p>
<p>momofthreeboys gives sound advice.</p>
<p>Folks...the Profile does NOT yield an EFC like the FAFSA. It contains financial information that the schools use to disperse institutional aid. If the U of Chicago uses the Profile, they want it to be complete. That's it. If your finaid forms are not complete, in most cases they will not be processed. In this case, it means that U of Chicago will not process the finaid form until it is complete. The OP submitted an incomplete Profile...there were blanks on it. </p>
<p>Now...how to correct it? Well, you need to call finaid. In all cases with us, any corrections or additions or whatever required that we print out the submitted Profile and HANDWRITE the corrections onto the print out. Then we mailed them to the colleges. We had to do this because DD submitted the Profile in November for EA priority consideration using estimates. Once our taxes were completed, we had to amend the Profile. We called each school and were told the same thing in all cases...print it out, make the corrections, and mail it in. Now...they also told us who to mail the corrected form to...and THAT is important. </p>
<p>In the case of all applications to college and for financial aid, I would suggest that applicants complete the application in total...leaving no blanks.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Golddust, have you had an honest conversation with your parents about your choices of colleges? The fact that they have put out a dollar amount to you that clearly they know will not be enough for you to go where you want makes me wonder what they are thinking you should do to gap the amount. Are they expecting that you are intelligent enough enough to close the financial gap with scholarships? I notice your loaction is Arizona, is the amount that they are extending enough for you to attend your state universities? There is still a missing piece of your puzzle that I am wondering about. If you don't know what the underlying story is then perhaps you should ask your mother as she may very well understand what's up.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, for me $6k a year would be enough to go to the University of Arizona because I would qualify for merit money. The thing is that my dad thinks that undergraduate education is pretty useless, and that grad school is all that matters (he went into the navy out of high school and never got his bachelor's degree--so it's not like he's exactly had the "college experience"). As a sidenote: The reason I'm not applying to any of my state universities is because the only one I would consider, NAU, doesn't have a classics major. </p>
<p>My parents know that I'm considering expensive schools, but they're basically like "Well, you're on your own to find a way to meet the gap between what we can pay and what they think we can pay." Which is ironic because my parents are horrified of my accumulating any debt whatsoever.</p>
<p>I'm planning to talk to my mom about it because she's not as -defensive- about the forms as my dad is...who's basically said "You're screwed for getting financial aid". I mean, I know there's like no hope--but I've got to try, at least. =</p>
<p>What other colleges/universities are you looking at or applying to? What are your primary motivators: classics program, size of school, location, something else? Do any of the WUE schools have a classics program? Do your Arizona merit dollars transfer to other states or must it be used for a in-state public? How much $ are you willing to contribute or are you able to contribute through a job? Have you read the thread on CC that has all the comments on colleges that offer tuition discounts/merit dollars based on GPA and standardized test scores? If for some reason you are able to put a plan together financially and the school is across the country are your parents accepting of that very basic thing and those associated costs? Whatever happens between your parents and you regarding finances you will need to have a plan A and a plan B I suspect. If you need help, ask, there are many knowledgeable parents on this board.</p>
<p>The only WUE schools that offer classics are University of Hawaii (too expensive to fly there and home), Western Washington University (apparently their department isn't adequate to prepare a student for graduate work--so why would I go there?), University of Idaho, and University of Utah.</p>
<p>I am going to be working 10-20 hours a week. I do freelance web and graphic design and development--it's about $70-$80 per hour. But the thing is that I can't always garauntee that I'll have clients for all those hours--so it's a little unpredictable. I expect to contribute significantly to paying for college by working over the summer and during the school year. My summer earnings should be at like $3,000.</p>
<p>I'm applying to (as of now):
- University of Chicago *
- Reed College *
- St. John's College (MD) *
- New College of Florida
- Whitman College (possibly...)</p>
<p>For me, only the *ed colleges are places that I actually -want- to go to, though. =/ Going anywhere else, I just can't see myself being happy...which is closed minded, I know, but that's just how i feel right now.</p>
<p>I chose those places for their student body, academic reputation, and size. But, as you can see, those three schools are all VERY different. Reed (1,300 students) vs. U Chicago (10,000 students) vs. St. John's (500 students).</p>
<p>What about this: I can go to a college for the first year and see how my working and such is able to help pay for stuff and how much my parents end up contributing. If there's too big of a deficit, I can transfer somewhere less expensive...?</p>
<p>You might look at and add Evergreen State in Washington to your list. It's a WUE school with significantly lower tuition than some on your list and a flavor closer to Reed or possible New College and you might want a school in your hip pocket if come spring finances become a deciding factor. I think it's rolling admissions, too. Another wild possibility would be Hillsdale in Michigan. Has classics as a major, doesn't accept federal funds so it has it's own financial aid form that is much simpler (I think) and more straightforward (I think), might be more in line with your parents beliefs regarding financial privacy and aid is awarded accordingly. The average financial aid package they claim is $14,000. If you have the stats for U of C I'm sure they would be mighty interested in you. I think it's a pretty interesting school ...worth spending an hour reading up on anyway. Even at "full boat" it is less expensive than most of your list with tuition/room & board at around $25,000. My S was interested in classics and liked their program, but Hillsdale, in Michigan, was "too close to home" for him. Regardless you should probably get a couple in the bag that are financial safeties in addition to your passion schools. I do believe also, that Colorado in Boulder has classics...or at least it was on my son's list last year for awhile when he was considering classics as a potential major to me not as interesting as Evergreen or others on your list, but a WUE school. Safety doesn't necessarily mean only an academic safety...sometimes it means a financial safety, too.</p>
<p>Golddustwoman, Having read many of your posts on the Reed forum, I feel like I know you just a bit. Therefore, I think you will not mind my honest opinion: you are going about things a**-backwards.</p>
<p>I know how badly you want Reed and Chicago, and, certainly, you should try to make them happen. BUT you have to keep your eyes on the larger goal here. The goal isn't to attend one of those schools for a year and possibly have to drop out because you can't come up with the money; the goal is to insure that you get your college degree.</p>
<p>Years ago, I was in a very similar situation to yours. I wanted, dreamed about, lusted after a particular private college. There was no way my family could afford it for four years without major financial aid. In those days, things were done differently, and I ended up not getting the money I needed to attend that dream school. Instead, I attended an inexpensive in-state public institution for two years before transferring to a private university (different than my "dream" school, because by then my goals and preferences were far different) for my last two years. </p>
<p>It wasn't the perfect solution. The first two years were not as academically challenging as I might have liked, I felt cheated, I felt trapped. BUT that all changed when I transferred. Because I'd focused on completing all of my general ed requirements at the less expensive public, when I transferred to the more expensive private, most of my courses were in my major anyhow, so I didn't miss out on the meat of the experience. I ended up much less in debt (yep, still had to take some even back then), and still got the educational benefit of the private school experience.</p>
<p>So, here's where I think you are going about this the wrong way. You NEED to have the University of Arizona on your list as a financial safety in order to buy yourself time to be able to transfer to the private school of your dreams. Is U of A Reed or Chicago? No. But, it is a ticket to the larger goal: finishing your education in a manner that is financial reasonable, especially if you qualify for merit money at Arizona. Heck, working the hours you're planning at the price you charge for two years you could build up a nice bank role to make those last two years at the better school feasible without as much financial aid or student debt.</p>
<p>And, by the way, Arizona has a decent classics program to boot.</p>
<p>So, please, don't be short-sighted and focus only on your immediate goal. Keep your eyes on the larger, more important, prize, and keep all roads open to achieving it until you know how things are going to pan out. If the money you need comes through from Reed or Chicago - no problem, kiss Arizona goodbye. But it is foolish to kiss it goodbye before you even know if you might need it.</p>
<p>Apply to the U of Arizona. You need a financial back up plan.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You might look at and add Evergreen State in Washington to your list. It's a WUE school with significantly lower tuition than some on your list and a flavor closer to Reed or possible New College and you might want a school in your hip pocket if come spring finances become a deciding factor. I think it's rolling admissions, too.
[/quote]
I've looked it up, and Evergreen State College isn't a WUE school, but it is only $16k + room/board OOS, and I've been on the fence about applying for a while. I think I will, though, as a financial safety.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Another wild possibility would be Hillsdale in Michigan. Has classics as a major, doesn't accept federal funds so it has it's own financial aid form that is much simpler (I think) and more straightforward (I think), might be more in line with your parents beliefs regarding financial privacy and aid is awarded accordingly. The average financial aid package they claim is $14,000. If you have the stats for U of C I'm sure they would be mighty interested in you.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I have a friend who is applying to Hillsdale, and I've spent a lot of time looking at the school. You need a 31 ACT for the 1/2 tuition scholarship, and I've only got a 29. According to their website I would qualify for $6 at max. I think the strongest parts of my UofC application is my academic record, essays, and recs--not the hard numbers that Hillsdale bases their scholarships on. They have a free online application, so perhaps I'll apply. It's an extremely conservative school...</p>
<p>Carolyn, I know that you have said what you have with the best intentions. I see what you are saying and I respect your opinion. For me, the U of A isn't even an option in the sense that I hate it. I hate Arizona, I hate the college, and I hate the feeling of "giving up" that attending the U of A would give me. I don't know if I could really handle being at school with 45,000 other undergraduates. I'm trying to apply to colleges that are financial safeties for me, such as New College ($21k OOS, and I may qualify for merit as an OOS student) and possibly Evergreen. I'm hoping not to resort to them, but I know that it's possible that it'll happen.</p>
<p>Ive got to put my $.02 in.
I can understand how a student can be enthralled with one of the private schools that may seem different than other opportunties.
However- from my perspective as a parent of a Reed alum and as the aunt of a student who graduated Summa Cum Laude in the Classics from a school much higher ranked than Reed- I would push my kid to attend a much less expensive school & or major in something that didn't require a higher level degree to find work.</p>
<p>Golddust, believe me, I understand. :)</p>
<p>You might also check out the Honors Tutorial College at Ohio University. It is a unique program that lets you study classics (and other subjects) in small tutorial style classes within the larger university. The scholarship opportunities are excellent, and the classics department is good too. Here's the link: Ohio</a> University: Honors Tutorial College:Programs of Study</p>
<p>Also, there are a number of other liberal arts colleges that offer both merit money and decent classics departments. For a start, check out Lawrence University.</p>
<p>I think the reason I'm engaged in this dialogue is because I wanted to go to Middlebury so bad it hurt and my parents said no. All the enthusiasm you pour into your posts about Chicago and Reed --I still remember that feeling. We lived in the Midwest where there are many, many superior colleges and universities that even in the 70s were substantially less expensive than the east coast. My parents could afford Middlebury, I got accepted, but they put their foot down and they they didn't want to "pay" for Middlebury and refused to fill out any financial aid forms. I watched some of my neighborhood friends head off to exotic locales and I stayed in the Midwest, albeit at a very good private LAC that was strong in everything that I wanted. Life is what it is and in retrospect my life would probably not be all that different had I headed east and I loved my college years and I'm proud of my college affiliation. I think the most important point here and it sounds like you're getting there is you need more schools on your list that you and your parents agree upon so that come spring you aren't left holding the bag with nowhere to go. My parents "let me" go down the path of applying and getting accepted to Middlebury and as a parent, now, I don't know why because they never, ever intended to pay despite the tears, begging and pleading that I remember well doing. Fortunately my parents insisted that I also apply to the state honors college and also to the LAC that I ultimately attended so I did have "choice". Both my parents and some of my grandparents were college educated so there was no ignorance regarding education involved, frankly in retrospect, I think if I had sat on my rear and not found an alternative to Middlebury, they would have told me to go to the Community College in our town until I "grew up". That's how adamant I now realize they were regarding "the budget." I could psychoanalyze the situation to death, who knows, maybe they wondered if I could "figure it out", but bottom line is your situation is probably not unique. You need to do the research now to "find" those less expensive choices that will still fill your college wish list, they are definitely out there and it sounds like you are slowing moving in that direction. I don't know your parents or your particular situation, but if they are communicating to you make sure you are listening and reading between the lines and understanding just how solid they are on their position so you don't miss the signals.</p>
<p>Regarding ACT score, my kids ACT scores, on average, increased 2 pts each year. In our neck of the midwest, the bright kids take the ACT starting in middle school to qualify for some accelerated programs that are available through local colleges so by senior year the kids can have taken the ACTs 4 times plus the PLAN which is the trial test for the ACTs. 29 is a very good score and if you took the ACT in junior year, you might just spend the small amount of dollars to take it again to see if you can hit the 31, the only thing you have to loose is potential scholarship dollars and a Saturday morning.</p>
<p>I took the ACT again and I went down to a 27. I know that it's not because I couldn't score better, but that morning I was so distracted and I couldn't concentrate and it was just bad.</p>
<p>I'll look into Lawrence University, Carolyn. Why must it be in Wisconsin? O_o The honors tutorial college requires a 30 ACT, and I don't meet that. I'm also not in the top 10% of my class (I'm 11/64, my GPA is 4.23/4.3, so obviously it's kind of competative.)</p>
<p>Momofthreeboys--I definitely think I'm in a similar situation that you were in. It wasn't until my parents made a budget until it seemed like we had no money at all, LOL. Where did you end up going?</p>
<p>So far my new list is: Chicago, Reed, St. John's, NCF, Evergreen, and Hillsdale. My parents limited me to paying for five applications--St. John's and Hillsdale don't charge for applying online, so I could add another place to this list.</p>