Not sure where to go from here

Graduate School
1

<p>Hey everyone, I just finished my second year at college, and am looking to apply for grad schools for econ come fall (I skipped a year).</p>

<p>First off, here is a summary of my profile:</p>

<p>School: Loyola University, New Orleans (honors program)</p>

<p>GPA: 3.96 cumulative, 4.0 in major (economics)</p>

<p>GRE: Not taken yet, but I am good at standardized tests (I got a 2200 on the SAT), so I am expecting 99th percentile or close to it.</p>

<p>I have taken a whole bunch of the school's most difficult econ courses (econometrics and the like) and got A's.</p>

<p>I have almost no math classes, however. I have taken stats, econometrics, and calc I, and I will be taking Calc II next semester, and then hopefully Calc III, differential equations, linear algebra, and maybe one more next year.</p>

<p>I have no formal research experience (as a research assistant), but I have done a few 20-30 page econ research papers (one of which was very econometrics heavy). I am also going to be writing my senior thesis, which I have high hopes for.</p>

<p>I am pretty confident that my letters will be great. One benefit of being at a small liberal arts school is that I am really close with my professors. </p>

<p>I have an internship at Merrill Lynch this summer. Also, I have been given the position of President of the school's econ club (which is a pretty big and important club on campus), but I may step down since I will have to take like 25 hours next semester (which, I believe, is unprecedented at the school).</p>

<p>If I had one more year of undergrad, I think I would be better prepared for getting into a great university (I am hoping for t10 if possible). As it stands, I don't think I have the math classes or enough published material. My grades, LOR, GRE, etc might suffice. </p>

<p>So, my question to you guys is what I should do now. Do I have any chance of getting into a top grad program (I know application success is kind of random). Should I apply for a master's program (They seem to be easier to get into) and then go to grad (remembering that money is a pretty big restraint), or should I go to a state school and take a whole bunch of math classes while working a (hopefully) econ related job? </p>

<p>Thanks a ton everyone, I am pretty confused as to what path I should take from here.</p>

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<p>You GPA and incidentals are great, but you really need some “formal research experience” and those math classes - econ at the grad level tends to be EXTREMELY quantitative, and until you take those classes you are a big gamble in the eyes of admissions committees.</p>

<p>Is there a reason you are rushing through a year early? This sort of thing happens a lot with early graduates, and the better answer is usually to slow it down, take the extra year, and make sure that by the time you apply you have everything well in order. As a sophomore it seems like this should be pretty straightforward.</p>

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<p>While I agree, unfortunately it boils down to a financial thing. I cannot afford another year at Loyola. I can go to a state school and take math classes there, which I put out as an option. However, barring some awesome scholarship opportunities being presented to me, I don’t think that another year at Loyola is feasible. Although I do fully agree with you; one more year of undergrad and I would feel very very ready for grad school.</p>

<p>Edit: Alternatively, I was hoping that a masters would provide me with the research and math experience I need to go to grad school. However, I have not looked too much into masters programs yet (did not expect to go that route), so I may be totally wrong.</p>

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<p>A masters’ degree is grad school. Courses are the same, professors are the same, etc. The big difference between an MS and Ph.D is in the level and depth of research expected. Pursuing an MS in Econ won’t allow you to catch up on undergrad-level math classes.</p>

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<p>My bad, I have a tendency of using grad school and a Phd seeking degree as synonyms (I do recognize that they are not).</p>

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<p>Grad school covers both masters and PhD programs, so you should be explicit when the difference matters.</p>

<p>I am surprised that with your GPA and incidentals that you are concerned about tuition - it seems like you should be rolling scholarship money.</p>

<p>If you cannot do another year at Loyola, I would say that your best option would be to apply to a combination of top-10 PhD programs and top-25 masters programs. If the PhD programs you want let you in, then you are golden. If not, a top-25 masters program hits a sweet spot for you - it will be highly enough regarded to serve as a good stepping stone to that top-10 PhD, but low enough that you will be strongly competitive for admission with funding despite your lack of research. A top-10 masters might admit you but require tuition (probably more expensive than that final year at Loyola) and a top-50 masters might make it harder to progress to that dream PhD school.</p>

<p>As a last note, most grad programs are okay with you taking one or two “make-up” classes, and many of the required courses will be senior-level courses anyway. But there is only so much they will tolerate, so you should contact schools during the application process to see what math they expect you to have before enrolling.</p>

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<p>Yeah, I should have been clearer on that part, cosmicfish… to me it sounded like the OP was a little farther behind than that, but maybe not! Hopefully not :)</p>

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<p>Do you mean rolling in scholarships for undergrad? If so, then I am doing something very very wrong, and I will take all possible suggestions for getting better undergrad funding. As for grad, I will take your advice and apply to t10 PhD and t25 masters. Given that I have one year left in undergrad, do you have any suggestions on improving my chances? Obviously do well on the GRE and keep up a good GPA, but anything aside from that? Should I drop the econ club president position and shift my energy elsewhere (I have read on this forum and others that extracurricular stuff is pretty much useless for acceptance). If so, where should I shift my energy (probably can’t take more than 25 hours, but I can do non-class related stuff)? </p>

<p>Thanks a ton to both of you guys!</p>

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<p>You should be talking to the financial aid department at your school and seeing what you need to do to apply for scholarships, both internal and external. I am afraid that you are too late to be applying for most aid for the 2012-2013 academic year, but your goal is really to secure funding for 2013-2014. Even if the school doesn’t have much, there are external scholarships for which you would seem competitive - sorry, I don’t have a list for economists.</p>

<p>As far as improving your chances, I think your emphasis should be on research, math, and grades, in that order - To go to a top PhD program the research and the math are crucial, even if it means letting your grades slip (a little, not a lot). Find a professor, help him with his research. Contact propsective departments and see how much math you need to be competitive, and do at least that much. The GRE is not a big deal unless you bomb it - great GRE scores will not get you IN places, but bad scores will keep you OUT. The econ club is useless.</p>

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<p>25 hours is ridiculous on its own, but taking 25 hours while also trying to apply for graduate school in econ? Your school may not even let you take 25 hours (my college limited all students to 21 hours, and you had to get a lot of signatures to take more than 18). Do you absolutely have to register for 25 hours next fall? If you don’t have to, you shouldn’t. Your grades may suffer.</p>

<p>I think you should take the extra year. One, there’s no reason to take 25 credits in one semester. Two, you do need more math courses to be a competitive econ student - you need to at least finish the calculus sequence and take differential equations and linear algebra. Three, you can get more of that formal research experience you lack, as without that, you are not a competitive applicant.</p>

<p>If it’s really going to be a financial hardship, though, I wouldn’t suggest taking the extra year. I would suggest graduating and then finding a job (hopefully related to economics). While you work, you can take the math classes you need at a public university and get some research experience as a volunteer with a professor. A master’s degree is another way to do that, but if you can’t afford another year at Loyola, a master’s is going to cost significantly more money than a fourth year at your current university.</p>

<p>I disagree with cosmicfish on the “rolling in scholarships” thing. The best chance a college student has for getting financial aid is securing it when they are applying. There are very few scholarships for continuing students at most colleges. There aren’t going to be many internal or external scholarship opportunities for you, and even if they do exist, it’s unlikely they’ll be substantial enough to cover a full year at Loyola.</p>

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<p>

This may be the norm, but it was the opposite of my personal experience - with a mediocre high school performance I have NO incoming scholarships, but did well enough in school that I wound up receiving scholarships totaling more than my tuition, fees, and textbooks. Admittedly, I was in engineering and was at a public university, but not all of my scholarships were limited to engineering and with a 3.96 GPA it seems like he should be competitive even for national scholarships - the few that are out there…</p>

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<p>So, I have done a lot of research over the past few days, and I might be able to pull off more classes. I am looking at LSU’s online (independent learning) program (which is accredited obviously). I was thinking that I can take Calc II and a random econ class for the first 7 weeks of June, and then take linear algebra and differential equations for the second part. This will start me out in the fall semester with a significantly reduced load. I will probably still take 25 hours, but I can get Calc III done next semester. The best part is that I can still take three math classes spring semester (not sure which though: real analysis, probability, and maybe topology?). </p>

<p>I asked my professor about research, but he was not sure if there was sufficient funding. So I may be on my own on that. I am optimistic about my research paper though, since I will be dedicating a large amount of my time to it.</p>

<p>I just wanted to give everyone who posted an update, and give myself a chance to say thank you guys again for all of your help! </p>

<p>p.s. the summer courses should be feasible in the time frame, correct? It is the minimum amount of time LSU will let me complete them in, but I do not know if I am rushing them. Normal summer classes are 6 weeks I think, so it should be alright (I am working 6 a.m. to 3 p.m. 4 days a week at the internship, and not much to do outside of that aside from exercise and eat).</p>

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<p>Bro, don’t worry too much about extra math, worry about internships, research internships. If you’re in honors then you should be able to find it. Here, let me find you some info.</p>

<p>[For</a> the ambitious, prospective PhD student: A Guide : Core Economics](<a href=“For the ambitious, prospective PhD student: A Guide – Core Economics”>For the ambitious, prospective PhD student: A Guide – Core Economics)</p>

<p>Hope that helps, mate.</p>