Not your typical Kenyon/Oberlin applicant. Will I fit in?

<p>Hello! </p>

<p>So, I had a question about these two schools. Obviously, they have a pretty large reputation for being both "liberal" and "unique." So, I was just wondering if I'd fit in/be accepted/ feel comfortable at either Kenyon or Oberlin (which are my top 2 college choices right now.) Please keep in mind that regardless of all these things about me, I am generally tolerant towards others' views. Here are a few things about myself:</p>

<p>1) I am a conservative and have strong political views, though they are not a HUGE part of my life.
2) I do play football; I play for the sheer enjoyment and am looking to be able to play while still concentrating on my studies.
3) I am pretty much a hippie's worst nightmare: I fish, hunt, own firearms, don't care that much about the environment, will buy stuff from Walmart if it is cheap, and drive an SUV.
4) I often wear what people may call "preppy" clothes. A&E, Hollister, Banana Republic, etc.
5) I often get annoyed with hypocrisy regarding how to think: i.e., a person who constantly preaches tolerance, yet attacks conservatives' views as wrong, idiotic, etc.
6) I am a Christian and nothing annoys me more than Religious intolerance and being condescending regarding faith.
7) Though I am often considered a jock, I love to read literature and am somewhat of a writer myself.
8) While I am opinionated regarding my views, I will respect those of others if mine are respected.</p>

<p>So, would I fit in at these schools?</p>

<p>I think you will find like minded people at both schools, though since Oberlin is bigger there might be more of them there. FWIW, my D is at Oberlin. Her good friend is a Christian and is having a fabulous experience. I wouldn’t worry at all about the jock part either. There are plenty of intellectual jocks at both schools.</p>

<p>I highly suggest you spend the night at both schools and see which one feels right.</p>

<p>No. But do you ■■■■■ often?</p>

<p>Christian football players help with move-in day at Oberlin.</p>

<p>Gun toting christian republican football players, if I remember correctly.</p>

<p>My family’s been attending Oberlin for two generations, so these comments represent Oberlin students from 1966 - 2005, one of whom majored in Religion there recently. Unfortunately I have no direct knowledge of Kenyon. So my long post is all about Oberlin!</p>

<p>You will find little friction regarding football or your choice of clothing. At Oberlin, they “don’t care what you wear” and will be quite uninterested in the brand of clothing, in any direction.</p>

<p>Your approach to football is quite what is admired there: do the sport because you love it! It’s your passion and Oberlin’s love seeing people passionate about things, from Asian History to Victorian Literature, from OCircus to Football, from Stravinsky to Steel Drums, it’s all good. Nobody will slobber over you for being on a football team. Some might admire the health it engenders. Nobody would put you down as “a jock” because that’s stereotyping and Oberlin’s try so hard not to stereotype anybody for anything. Just enjoy it and do it for the love of it; that’ll be quite understood. </p>

<p>Your above points #5,6, and 8 are what I am responding to here: </p>

<p>If you hyper-talk conservative politics without listening; if while people talk you are thinking more about what you’ll say next than listen at all to what they are saying, you may find people shut down. At that point, you won’t know if that’s because of your political views or an abusive talking style. (note: you’ll also find lefties who do that same thing). Search your soul and decide which is your style. There’s a huge difference. At Oberlin, political conservatives are accepted IF they have point-of-view and can articulate it with real sources. If you look at some graduates you’ll see the likes of Richard Haas (at Brookings), or Jan Ting who ran for office (not successful) with the Republican party, and so on. I knew them as students and they were ardent, if quiet, A-students of History and Political Science in those days. They were scholars, not diatribers. </p>

<p>I don’t know Kenyon well, but Oberlin students pride themselves correctly on being open to diverse viewpoints. While the majority of the campus is decidedly Left, the Republican Club was revived there a decade ago, for example, after not existing for many years. Some students there today are quite a-political and a-religious, too; involved in the arts or particular sciences; just don’t read newspapers, never grew up around churches and so forth. They just don’t care about the issues that move you the most. </p>

<p>Still others are strongly positioned in left organizations. Progressive gender thinking permeates the campus. If you are upset seeing a transgender student, and think that’s up for religious “discussion” (meaning, confrontation or chiding) directly with that person, or backchannel discussion about that person’s choice among other classmates, well, don’t go to Oberlin. Your opinion is more than an opinion, it’s intolerant if you think your opinion means they shouldn’t be on the same campus or planet as you. Your political opinion may be someone else’s life. </p>

<p>If your Christian faith precludes tolerance of gays and transgenders, such that you speak out against them or those who are such, then you’ll get challenged, then isolated at Oberlin. If you run around and say “hate the sin, love the sinner” that’s not quite good enough to make friends there.</p>

<p>OTOH, if your Christian faith permits acceptance of those with radically different ways of life, you will be accepted and judged As a Person. Oberlin’s mostly want to see each other as “persons” than as political/religious/gender “types.”
In that way, they are truly accepting and I find them to be so over all the years outlined above. </p>

<p>If, indeed, you are actually this: “a respectful, conservative Christian who likes to play football” and can imagine others being Equally (not more) entitled to occupy space on the campus and raise their opinions in classroom or dinnertable discussion, you are ready for Oberlin. You have to be ready to be a minority there, but that might be a healthy experience as a chapter in your life. </p>

<p>My D, who majored in Religion, was obviously curious about all religions. Even so, one Christian fundamentalist person in her first freindship circle persisted in trying to convert her. Eventually she had to ask him to stop talking about religion, even though she was a relgion major and studied Old Testament in classes, and so forth. His fundamentalist take gradually became very irritating to her, as a Jewish woman, in the category of his being socially insensitive. He had to learn to talk about other things with her, which he did do. She said that after a while into freshman year, he found families and made friends in an Ohio (not on campus) church organization with whom he could share his religious passion unreservedly. With that outlet, he stopped monologuing her about Jesus as his Savior, which she felt after so many discourses he must mean to say that Jesus should also be her Savior. Once they took a moratorium on Jesus-talk, they became somewhat limited friends, and they both found many other close friends on campus, too. </p>

<p>Once each found their own truly closest friends, it was okay between them to become and stay casual friends. In the end, it was more their personalities that kept them from becoming best friends, but each could be friends closely with others. And she STILL values having met and known him, several years after graduating. </p>

<p>They had nearly opposing perspectives on religion and politics, and got beyond that to discover what was and wasn’t possible in terms of an actual social friendship. Friendships there seem to be made over who is, in fact, a friendly person, and less so over who agrees politically and religiously by doctrine. </p>

<p>Be a friend and you’ll make friends.</p>

<p>P.S. On your point #3 above, I think some students will want you to teach them how to fish! Also remember some students hail from rural communities in the U.S. and globally, so are not unfamiliar with hunting and fishing themselves. Re: Walmart, there IS none at Oberlin as the exploitation of American workers rankles many. So if you want to mention “I bought this at Walmart” just to get a rise out of folks, well…why do that? Students WILL share your passion for “cheap goods” but more by Free-swap or Ebay than from Walmart’s. Re: hunting: that will honestly be dealbreaker with the Vegans, but they are just one of many subgroups among the eating co-ops. I’ve met many unabashed carnivores at Oberlin who’d be curious to hear how hunting is done. On gun ownership: can you articulate it and truly debate among the Constitutional Amendments (not just shout “Second Amendment, Founding Fathers!” 20 times)? I think I’ve communicated the ethos. Good luck in whatever you decide.</p>

<p>^^^ Great post above. Paying3tuitions’ tuition dollars are clearly being well-spent.</p>

<p>LTC - I think it’d be a win-win for both you and your college if you were to go to Oberlin or Kenyon. (That is, beyond the fact that at either college you’d be receiving one of the most outstanding undergraduate educations on the planet.)</p>

<p>“LTC - I think it’d be a win-win for both you and your college if you were to go to Oberlin or Kenyon.”</p>

<p>I don’t. People prefer the company of others who share their views. This is not my opinion it is a researched fact reported in every psychology course. Who wants to sit around all day arguing with people, or being shunned by the majority of those around you? I don’t. YMMV.</p>

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<p>Why would such people want to go to college when they could just choose to stay home and never have to be exposed to anything in the world that’s different from what they already know?</p>

<p>Why limit to college students? Why shouldn’t I eagerly seek out jobs where I think everyone in a particular work group will hate me, or I have nothing in common with them?</p>

<p>Ok I know the answer. This is what people do. It’s been studied.</p>

<p>From a psychology course:</p>

<p>"We tend to associate with others who are similar to ourselves…
Byrne (1971):
We like people who we perceive as having similar attitudes to our own
Rosenbaum (1986):
Similarity does not spark attraction; rather dissimilarity triggers repulsion, the desire to avoid someone "</p>

<p>I don’t prefer to set myself up to have a miserable experience someplace, why should I ask my college-age kids to do it either, just because it might be “good” for them? It might be good for me too, for the same reasons, equally so. But I too am human, and would prefer to have a good time vs. having a miserable time.</p>

<p>Not a good social fit, IMO.</p>

<p>Great post from p3t which underscores many of the reasons my own daughter would love to be an Obie next year!</p>

<p>I would just add one more thing to think about for ltc: Do you have liberals, hippies, atheists, LGBTQ folks, etc. among your current friends? If you do, then you probably already know on a small scale how you would get along with a larger group of the same. If not, then you may want to think about other schools that have whatever it is you like academically about Oberlin and Kenyon, but where you would fit in better socially.</p>

<p>Also wanted to note that I think there are 2 big red flags in your post as regards how well you’d be accepted in any liberal-leaning group: 1) Christian, and 2) “don’t care that much about the environment.”
Christian is no problem UNLESS it is a “gay people don’t deserve equal rights” and/or a “must convert everyone to my religion” brand of Christianity.
I’m not even sure what to make of your environmental stance. Most hunters and fishers I know care deeply about the environment even if they don’t agree with the average lefty on exactly what should be done to protect it. I could picture this being a pretty divisive issue between you and the average Obie/Kenyonite (sorry, not sure what they’re actually called!)</p>

<p>Okay, I’m heading off to start a new thread: “Will my liberal, hippy, vegetarian, bellydancing, atheist daughter fit in at Oral Roberts U. or Liberty U.?”</p>

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<p>This, to me, is a red flag, and I would recommend you not say it. Not because other people’s viewpoints don’t deserve to be understood, or because conservatives are always wrong–because it evokes the kind of person who says things like, “If I have to accept your homosexual lifestyle, you have to accept that I think you’re a sinner.” I don’t think I have to tell you how that would play out at Oberlin.</p>

<p>Well, I would like to especially that p3t. That is a post that I was sort of hoping for.</p>

<p>I am not ■■■■■■■■, I just wanted to know if I would fit in at either school. I have lesbian friends, I enjoy hearing opposing viewpoints, and honestly I feel as though I mesh well with people regardless of political preference. With the reputations of these schools, isn’t it a bit understandable why I may be a bit hesitant when considering these schools? Especially because when I visited/overnighted about both schools, I loved it.</p>

<p>Thank not that*</p>

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<p>This could also raise a red flag. What do you mean by “respect”? IME, those with strong political opinions who state they want their political opinions to be “respected” really mean “Don’t openly express disagreement…especially if it is vehement disagreement”. </p>

<p>One thing many students like this tend to learn quickly in life is that if you are going to hold strong political opinions and express them, you’d better be willing to take as much as you dish out. Otherwise, you’d not only fail to fit well at Oberlin, but also in many areas of life out in the “real world” once you graduate unless you hermetically confine yourself solely to those whose political opinions are the same as your own. Don’t know about you or others here, but I personally find that to be less interesting than watching paint dry…</p>

<p>Honestly I don’t express my political views all that often (unless they’re being openly attacked.)</p>

<p>And for the record I don’t really appreciate these sweeping generalities regarding my views. I honestly am simply coming here for advice and assuming that I just don’t like my opinions to be questioned is downright insulting.</p>

<p>^^perfect example of why these two colleges are not a good fit, IMO.</p>

<p>OP, IMO I don’t think those schools are good fits as you seem pretty sensitive to your views being criticized, and they will be frequently questioned at Oberlin, but not sure about Kenyon. Have you looked at Davidson or Washington & Lee? Amherst? Maybe Williams in which the students seem a bit less political and more focused on athletics and academics? Williams and Amherst have great football teams.</p>