Notre Dame and Engineering

Parents Forum
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<p>My son's interest is Aerospace Engineering. He's been admitted to Notre Dame, Michigan, Purdue, Illinois, and Wisconsin. All, except Notre Dame are ranked as top Engineering programs jockeying with MIT, Caltech and Berkley in the rankings. Notre Dame, on the other hand is a very well-regarded national university on the whole ranking 20th in USNWR. They emphasize undergraduate education overall, but their engineering program is not ranked nearly as highly as the others.</p>

<p>I'm not certain what the bottom line costs are going to be at any of the institutions, but I'd like my son to give Notre Dame a good look for fit. I'd appreciate any and all opinions.</p>

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<p>Forget those rankings. If he wants to go to Notre Dame or MIT etc…, then he should go. seriously.</p>

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<p>My son attended their 3 week summer engineering program and LOVED IT!! He loved the smaller campus atmosphere. I may have mentioned to you already that an older classmate of his attends for aerospace engineering. My son would have definately applied there if they had a program in Materials Science but they do not. You should take a look. We are also not catholic and from what I hear that is not really an issue. Congrats on all of those acceptances!! Sports are huge at ND so you might want to ask about what it is like if you are not into them. My son is into them so he did love the atmosphere. You can get a book called or go on line to College ******* and they talk about the inside scoop at all colleges. It is a good book to look at in the book store as well. US News is not the end all be all!!</p>

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<p>Since your are from Chicago, U. of Illinois will be in state tuition for you. I suggest that your son give U. of Illinois serious consideration, look at all of the schools, and don’t let rankings make your decision. You need to look at over all fit.</p>

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<p>Yes, ignore the rankings. He should go where he will be happy.</p>

<p>I did engineering research at Notre Dame. It was small enough that the undergraduates, grad students, and professors interacted seamlessly. If he wants research opportunities and close guidance from experienced professionals, Notre Dame could be a great choice. The other schools you listed are great engineering schools, but it’s easy for an undergrad (or anyone else) to get lost in such huge places. I don’t think anyone gets lost at ND.</p>

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<p>ND is a terrific school, but remember that you said “their engineering program is not ranked nearly as highly as the others.”</p>

<p>Why?</p>

<p>Engineers need a great technical education. How committed is your son to engineering? Because the best three schools by far on your list for AeroE are Michigan, Purdue, and Illinois. If your son is fully committed to engineering, and specifically AeroE, he ought to go to the school with the best program that fits all his and your criteria in terms of department resources, distance from home, cost, size, etc. Just my 2 cents. (My brother’s an AeroE grad of one of those three schools. Son is an engineering grad student.)</p>

<p>I think a visit to each of these schools may be in order if you can swing it before your son decides. Good luck to him.</p>

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<p>The suggestion to visit is spot-on. Notre Dame is nothing like a Big Ten school, and even the Big Ten schools differ from one another in important ways.</p>

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<p>Some might argue that, should your son change his major at some point, it would be a shame for him to have selected a college based only on this one major choice.</p>

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<p>Great point, givings–and as I have already commented in the ND forum to the original poster and having a student that turned down both Purdue and GA Tech w/scholarship money offered (none at ND), it does not appear that the fact the ND is not as highly ranked in engineering has had any bearing on our student’s opportunities in terms of internships, an REU and now, finally acceptance of a very promising job upon graduation in the spring. Our student chose ND because it was a good fit for engineering at the time–not because we are Catholic (we are not) and certainly not because of rankings. The support at ND has been overwhelming from what we have witnessed–professors (and according to our student-professors that actually know your name!), students interacting rather than competing with one another, a top-notch career center that has been key to a fabulous internship this past summer and subsequently the job op upon graduation this spring. And, as I mentioned in the ND thread, the alumni support is over the top–we feel that has contributed greatly to the internships and job op. But, it was a good fit for our student and we have no regrets (and neither does our student). I have posted many times that it is a very personal decision that should be made on both financial and academic evaluations and certainly should feel right with the student. Your student is going to be successful if the school can satisfy his needs/expectations and not everyone would be happy/successful at ND. If it is indeed rankings that you are concerned about, then maybe ND might not be the school for your son. But, in our opinion, rankings (esp in engineering) do not appear to play a dominant role-esp where employability is concerned. There are many factors that determine that outcome!</p>

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<p>^^ In the case of the OP’s son, givings, I think the major really does matter, depending entirely on the individual. Again, just my 2 cents from personal first- and secondhand experience. </p>

<p>In the somewhat special case of Aero, not even all engineering schools offer that major. The OP’s son has three excellent choices, though.</p>

<p>Long term, a student focused on studying and staying in engineering after graduation needs to consider (1) postgraduation employment recruiting on campus or (2) the depth of courses and research opportunities if grad school is a goal. For example, do the same aerospace companies recruit on ND’s campus as Michigan’s? How do each school’s grads fare on engineering graduate school admissions? I don’t know the answers to either question, but I’m certain I’d want to ask people in both departments.</p>

<p>Edit: Cross-posted with your interesting post, notre dame AL. Valuable viewpoint to consider.</p>

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<p>Go to the general Engineering Major forum under Discussion Home. There is a similar thread inquiring about engineering and rankings/employment. There are some pretty frequent posters who appear to be true engineers that might offer some insight as well!</p>

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<p>I would consult what the USNWR peer ranking subset is for each of these schools, you will see that Michigan has a much higher peer ranking than ND. This means if someone does well in undergrad, then the recommendation to grad school will carry much more weight with a higher peer ranking.</p>

<p>I would also scan through the bio’s for the engineering professor’s for each school, and you will see where they got their undergrad and PhD. You will see that UM has more profs from MIT, Illinois (which is highly rated), Cal, UM,etc… than ND.</p>

<p>I know ND would be better fro pre-med or pre-law, but would not suggest it for engineering.</p>

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<p>For us the entire college experience was very important and although our child also could have gone to pretty much any engineering school he wanted to he chose ND, is in the freshman year, and really enjoying ND and doing great. Great new engineering facility opening in January and ND is really putting considerable resources behind their engineering program.</p>

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<p>I appreciate all the advice being given here. My son is used to the individual attention given at the small catholic school he currently attends. It’s graduating 55 seniors this May, and that its largest class ever. Now he’s expressed a desire for aerospace engineering that I’m certain is genuine, just as his desire to go into finance was genuine when he was a sophomore.</p>

<p>He also loves the small school experience that he’s had for the last 4 years. The thing with engineering seems to be that the larger the program, the better the research possibilities in general. Which isn’t an issue, if you are assertive. You’re right, being from Illinois, we would get instate tuition from UIUC, but if you look at the instate cost of attendance for engineering, it’ll most likely exceed 31k next year. That still is better than Notre Dame’s cost but the differential is less than most people think.</p>

<p>And 'AL, I do appreciate your input, and since your family’s experiences so closely match what my family is experiencing now, I am going to be PM’ng you as soon as I do some research. The thing with this college application process is that you bounce from one extreme to the other so quickly. At first it was - apply to colleges that best support your desired field of study, and then I suggested Notre Dame because I new it was truly a traditional small-ish college experience that would support him better as an undergraduate. Then he got accepted to all of them, and I thought boom! we’re done here…then I thought - Man! too many choices.</p>

<p>We’re definitely visiting the colleges that he’s been admitted to, and the types of things to look for, and the questions to ask are much appreciated, it’s just that it’s hard to truly appreciate the beauty of the individual campuses when they’re encrusted in a layer of snow. On the other hand, winter is going to be the dominent season for much of the school year.</p>

<p>Also, ND has been focusing on the engineering program for some years now, and I’m certain that emphasis is not only on the infrastructure. It takes years to build up a pretigious faculty. The issue is not where Notre Dame’s engineering program is today, so much as where it’s at when he graduates 4 years from now.</p>

<p>If it was strictly in terms of engineering, Notre Dame wouldn’t be in the running. It’s because of all the intangibles that I’m trying to get a handle on now, that make it attractive.</p>

<p>Thanks again for all the great input!</p>

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<p>First, congrats to your son who has some terrific options …</p>

<p>

Attractive to whom? you or your son? The concern I have reading the OPs posts is I do not hear the son’s voice … I hear the parents voice about “why ND” … I’d really be interested in how the son sees his choices and if ND stands above the other choices or not. I have no horse in this race … just a little concerned we’re not hearing the student’s perspective.</p>

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<p>I appreciate your concern. Rest assured that I’m not usurping my son’s college choice by any means. He has the final decision, but he is currently steeped in his senior year studies. I’m looking to represent his interests by being able to gather, sift and condense a variety of opinions to educate myself in order to be able to provide an informed, independent opinion to aid him in his decision. I’m certain that all the institutions to which he has been admitted will put their best foot forward when he comes to visit. Banks do that to as they seek to sell their credit cards to students on campus. I’m looking to place myself in the position of an informed arbiter that has only his best interests at heart. That to me is not placing my interests before those of my son. I work very hard to make sure I don’t do that. On the contrary, he’s told me he appreciates my help. He isn’t scouring the CC boards here, I am. He knows that, and wants my opinion and perspective.</p>

<p>I hope I’ve put your mind at ease, and again, given the additional imformation that I provided after the first very informative posters commented, I was wondering whether any additional information was forthcoming.</p>

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<p>Balthezar–I wouldn’t worry too much about what is posted re your student’s interest vs your own. While our own student ultimately made the choice, we, as parents and the bill payers where tuition, etc was concerned were just as involved. Plus, we felt that the more open the communication with our student, the better fit of school would <em>hopefully</em> be discovered. And, guess what, it worked!</p>

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<p>Your S is very fortunate to have a strong sense of his major. If you have no strong reason to question his choice in this regard, then I encourage you and your S to view the choices from the perspective of the aeronautics engineering programs that they offer. It matters a great deal, and especially in the junior and senior years. If the program is weak, then your S may find the coursework in his later years as weak/disappointing.</p>

<p>The “best” college would also most likely have a masters program in aeronautics engineering. This would give your S an option, if he’s a strong student, to take advanced courses in his senior year, connect with faculty that can help him launch his career, work as an intern at possible future employers, and possibly work at the college one or two summers in his field of choice.</p>

<p>I also encourage you to research a bit of which companies recruit at the available choices. If the Boeings of the world do not, then it’s a red flag.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/569439-college-has-best-connection-nasa-lockheed-boeing-2.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/engineering-majors/569439-college-has-best-connection-nasa-lockheed-boeing-2.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>^^Thanks CrewDad–we have certainly found this to be true with a graduating Senior this spring!! I stand by my previous posts with regard to fit of the school to the student as well as financial concerns.</p>