Notre Dame and Dartmouth are reach schools, and they are reach schools for pretty much anyone who applies. That includes statistically, or financially. For private schools, you can’t count on a school’s generosity with financial aid. I’ve seen many applicants get burned when financial aid packages come in, even for elite schools that are supposedly generous. Do the math. When a bachelors degree and room/board costs 300k per student, there’s only so much grant money to go around. If you have a school with 10,000 students (x) $300k per student, it costs more/less 3 billion to meet full financial need. That’s not including the costs to actually run the school, which are going to be even more than that. Basic economics does not support widespread generosity, especially when the student loan cap for a 4 year degree is $27k.
@coolguy The term “full financial need” does not refer to cost of attendance times the number of students. Instead, it refers to the difference between COA and the need that has been determined by the school according to submitted financial aid documents. A little more than half the students at Notre Dame and a little less than half at Dartmouth receive financial grants. The best way to determine affordability is to run the Net Price Calculator, with caveats for potential inaccuracy in situations like divorce or owning a business; it sounds like OP has already done so and the net price is more affordable than his or her other options.
@coolguy40
Except these colleges meet full need. Dartmouth doesn’t even expect a family contribution for incomes below a certain number.
@evergreen5
Correct. In fact, I’ve found no financial safeties whatsoever, hence my list’s heavy reliance on meet full need schools (AKA: the reaches).
^Consider adding a couple of financial safeties that offer automatic scholarships for your stats.
“I’ve found no financial safeties whatsoever…”
This is a problem. If you have stats where Dartmouth and ND are in range, even though a reach, then you would likely qualify for full tuition and possibly full ride scholarships at some schools. What are your stats?
@suzy100 and @evergreen5
I’m not going down that rabbit trail again. I had an entire post where people kept suggesting financial safeties and repeatedly finding out that they weren’t actually financially safe. We (I and the CC people on that thread) have not found any safeties that offer guaranteed full rides — only competitive ones. I am applying to Prairie View A&M as a safety and will have to hope that I will get the full ride scholarship should the rest of my list reject me.
My Daughter will be a sophomore at ND this year. She is an engineering major. She was accepted at both Dartmouth and ND. All engineering students take the Intro to Engineering class which introduces them to the different concentrations…mechanical, civil, chemical, environmental. The balance of her classes freshman year were requirements necessary for upper level classes once you declare an engineering major. She took calculus, physics, chemistry freshman year. You declare your major after freshman year and your sophomore scheduled is tailored towards your major. Most freshman engineering classes consisted of math & science prerequisites. The two schools couldn’t be more different. She chose ND because she was unsure of her major and ND provides unbelievable guidance in the department. ND 4 year graduation rate is one of the best with over 90% graduating in 4 years. She will be doing research her sophomore year. The opportunities at ND are endless. Both schools are reaches for everyone and require a high level of interest. If you can’t visit it is recommended that your reach out to AC at both schools. Daughter thanks us everyday for allowing her to pick ND over many other schools where she had great scholarships. ND is a very special place, but it’s not for everyone.
@waitingmomla - When my daughter was looking at schools, it seemed some schools jumped right in with some kind of hands on engineering design/project class, and others just math/physics/chem freshman year with more of a gen ed focus. For my daughter, she quickly decided she wanted a jump right in with a project class and fewer gen ed requirements, so ND came off her list.
@momofsenior1 Aaah, thank you, that’s interesting. So it seems like ND is somewhere in the middle of those two extremes. It doesn’t offer anything specific right out of the chute freshman year but does have the general intro to engineering classes that year. So more than just math/physics/chem for freshman year (which I think is Dartmouth, if I read their site correctly)
@testprepishard That’s an interesting distinction that maybe you should consider for the schools to which you are applying. Do you know what type of engineering you want to major in? Or are you not sure yet and maybe you’d benefit from a program that is more general freshman year until you can figure that out?
@waitingmomla
Probably the latter. I have a rough idea of what area I want to go into, but am in no position to make a decision in major.
Dartmouth has its own unusual non-academic characteristic in having very heavy fraternity/sorority participation. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/dartmouth-college-2573 says that “Nearly 70 percent of students are members of Greek organizations, which serve as the hubs of social life at Dartmouth.”
For engineering, Notre Dame has much more than Dartmouth (and Dartmouth’s ABET-accredited BE program is 5 years instead of 4 years).
https://engineering.nd.edu/academics/undergraduatedegreeprograms
https://engineering.dartmouth.edu/academics/undergraduate
@ucbalumnus
I’ve decided to go with Notre Dame. It has a greater focus on engineering than Dartmouth and has specialized engineering departments. Plus, I’m more likely to get into ND than Dartmouth.
If you are open to looking at other colleges where there is engineering and you might have some financial needs met, check out Michigan Tech, Purdue, and University of North Dakota. I have heard that they have students who take terms off for paid internships, but you would have to confirm. Michigan Tech and University of North Dakota are both really cold and snowy campuses. Of the three, Purdue is the most selective.
Unless you’re a big college football fan or require a Catholic school, or need to not be in the middle of nowhere, or if ND is a lot cheaper – if your choice is based on overall academic quality, choose Dartmouth.
“or need to not be in the middle of nowhere” – I’m honestly so tired of comments like this. South Bend is a city of 100,000 people. It’s certainly no Boston, but there is plenty around and plenty to do. I live in a city of 30,000 people and we have plenty to do. Notre Dame is not - in any universe - in the “middle of nowhere”. No matter how some like to promote that narrative.
Per a wise comment that was made earlier in the thread – “Though, as I said, the two are close enough in quality that fit and finances should trump reputation/prestige”. OP – It should come down to fit and finances. If either is a lot cheaper than the other – or – if either is a better fit, that should be a significant factor. Also to be considered is what you yourself said earlier, “Notre Dame. It has a greater focus on engineering than Dartmouth and has specialized engineering departments”.
And @katrina1 is correct, Purdue is better in engineering than either of these schools. And it seems like you don’t mind cold weather, so you should def check that out.
I took the comment to mean Dartmouth is in the middle of nowhere not ND.
Yes, that portion of @prezbucky’s reply served as a comment on Hanover, not South Bend.
If so then, sorry, my bad. I’ve seen plenty of those comments about South Bend. Have never been to Hanover but have always seen it referred to as a beautiful college town, so assumed he wasn’t referring to that.