Notre Dame vs MIT? vs the others?

K1 is very strong academically and is finishing up the athletic recruiting process. Has passed academic pre-reads from MIT, Cornell, Columbia, Duke and Notre Dame. Notre Dame just made an offer. MIT coach gave thumbs up and will write letter. The other officials went very well and calls from the remaining schools are being scheduled in the first part of this week.

We sense that K1 will be very happy at Notre Dame (great campus culture, excellent D1 team in specific sport) but our kid is struggling with potentially turning down the other very prestigious schools. We are from New England, and honestly Notre Dame is a bit of an unknown entity whereas the other schools carry a lot of weight, particularly in engineering which is K1’s focus. Families around here wear their kid’s school like a badge of honor.

Would love to hear back with undergrad experiences and particularly hiring experiences relative to any of these schools. Looking for tangible info to break through the prestige barrier. Much thanks.

Daughter is currently a freshman at ND majoring in Engineering. The ND network is not regional. It is national and international. A friend whose daughter is a recent graduate (2014) decided to follow her boyfriend out west for his residency program. She called ND career placement office. In less than a week she had 5 interviews set up in the West Coast city where her boyfriend is doing his residency. She had 2 job offers within a month. Fit is so important in picking a college. It’s hard to imagine someone loving MIT and ND equally. They are very different schools in terms of campus culture.

My kid is an MIT grad (but not engineering although most of his friends were). The environment is not for everyone but our son loved it- start to finish- and found it an incredible source of networking, professional help and advice, etc. even now (graduated a decade ago). He has been able to help younger grads which is always gratifying.

Notre Dame is considered very prestigious in my neck of the woods, although I don’t know that anyone would describe the environment as especially intense-- certainly compared to places like RPI, MIT, Cal Tech, etc. So I think it’s more about what he wants and what he’s comfortable with.

I can tell you that the workload at MIT is not an urban myth… nobody skates by. But if it’s a fit with what your kid is looking for, it is an incredible experience.

Catholic?

MIT does have heavy general education requirements. That can contribute to the academic intensity.

Notre Dame has one of the most powerful and influential alumin networks in the United States and I believe standardized test scores are on par if not higher than MIT. Last year the average ACT score was a 34.

Notre Dame engineering graduates also earn more money on average than MIT graduates.

What sport? Catholic? Price no object?

You are really talking apples and oranges.

D1 athlete experience at ND is obviously a completely different world from D3 MIT.

ND’s culture and alumni network is extremely strong. It is up there with Army, Navy and Princeton imho. But not tech focused as MIT would be.

Depends on the student experience your kid is looking for and which would fit. I know a kid who turned down a sports offer at Harvard for a athletic scholarship at ND. For that kid, Harvard didn’t have a chance. ND tends to attract kids who get what ND is about and who just really really want to be ND students.

Similar to the service academies, many kids look at ND and say no thanks while others say sign me up.

Nice problem to have.

Is money a factor? Remember Columbia and Cornell only give need based financial aid. There will be no athletic scholarships coming from them

Engineering major plus D1 athlete at ND would be a very intense schedule.

Maybe more intense than MIT engineering plus D3 sport.

Like the Ivys MIT dose not offer athletic scholarships. If ND has scholarship while MIT doesn’t it could mean well over $100k in expense.
When it comes athletic programs different schools have different emphasis. I know MIT’s athletic coaches do not push for time commitment nearly as hard as some D1 schools’. My friend’s son is in MIT swimming team and he is able to pursue his full academic schedules without worrying too much about varsity commitment. I don’t think you can say the same about the Ivys and other D1 schools. Other D1 couches during the interviews told him that if he didn’t have time to study for tests and finals it was his problem, not theirs.
In terms of hiring if the field is engineering MIT and ND are not in the same league. No offense to ND, but alum network will only get you so far. Over 90% time no alum will be involved in hiring and school reputation in the field matters a lot, especially for the first few jobs out of school.
IMO, if money is a big factor and your kid would not mind a strong focus in sports in college ND would be a better choice. Otherwise MIT college is one of the best programs for an engineering career.

@FarmerMom - Great feedback. This is very helpful to know what happens in the world beyond graduation.
@blossom - No doubt about it, MIT is very intense and K1 is aware.
@ucbalumnus - We’re protestant. K1 felt like that wasn’t such a huge deal after the official visit at ND, but it you know differently please share.
@HootieA - We actually thought the opposite was true - that MIT engineers earn more than ND at the first hire. Do you have a good reference to share?
@northwesty - Yes, apples and oranges. K1 is an excellent student and high reaching athlete, so ND seems to have it all. K1’s sport is actually D1 at MIT, but it does not compete at the same level as ND or the other schools on the list.
@sybbie719 - Very aware of the financial differences between the schools. It should never be disregarded no matter how carefully you’ve planned but we’re just trying to get a handle on the fit for K1 at this point.

@rowswim, my D is a junior at ND and is not religious, much less Catholic. It has never been an issue for her.

Here are the ND and MIT career surveys:

http://careercenter.nd.edu/students/success-stories-data/first-destination/
https://gecd.mit.edu/resources/survey-data

First of all, congrats to your son.
Notre Dame does have a national reputation, so I wouldn’t worry about that aspect.
Yes, MIT is…well, MIT. However, fit and happiness are important IMHO.
I assume he has had official visits at both. I don’t think he can make a bad decision here.
Do finances come into play? (No need to answer; am just saying this is something I would consider as well.)

As noted above, the “culture” of the two schools is pretty different. A visit, especially an overnight, would I think tend to help a kid decide between the two. They are both places with strong advantages and which can probably accurately be described as “not for everyone.”

totally agreed with @turtle17. Visited both schools, ND has beautiful campus and impressive stadium, MIT has a very industrial look. ND is strong in accounting. MIT is overall engineering giant…

Forget prestige as you mentioned in your original post. It should NOT be the reason to choose one school over the other. Look at the different campus cultures. Your son needs to determine which one most suits him, he will do best there. There are many excellent colleges that give a top education but it is the other variables your son now needs to consider. Finances is one of them, btw.

Yes 30 years ago, not anymore. MIT is a top school but there is virtually no edge now.

MIT’s edge is in entrepreneurship, especially for engineers… My son (not a millionaire, sadly) has several friends who have now started and sold successful businesses. The kid in his frat with the lowest GPA (or so they claimed) was a multimillionaire by age 28. The level of incubation that goes on with help from grad students, professors, the local investment and scientific community is unbelievable.

Whether the OP’s kid wants or cares is another matter entirely.

Many years ago we went to a local MIT event which had a lot of alumni. Every alum had majored in engineering, but was now doing consulting or international banking. Now of course being in the NYC area, I’m sure there was a huge selection bias, but that is something to be aware of at both schools - and I saw plenty of non-engineering outcomes at both schools. It’s hard to tell if we are comparing apples with apples, but it sure looked like MIT initial salaries are higher. (That may reflect more jobs on the coasts as well as more consulting and IB jobs.)

I think you can get a the education you want at either school, but that the atmospheres of the two schools - especially the sports culture - are completely different. I can’t imagine liking both equally.