Now what help- My kid got into 8 small liberal arts schools

<p>I would say Oberlin is good if you want to save the environment and you’re pretty liberal. Don’t get me wrong - it’s a great school. But it definitely has a vibe.</p>

<p>Conn College - we love this one. Beautiful campus, honor code, great new science and computer building. They also have free music lessons if you want. Probably lots of preppy kids from CT private schools there.</p>

<p>Colby - supposed to be great, but we didn’t see it. If it’s anything like Bowdoin, it must be nice. Probably outdoorsy kids who love the environment.</p>

<p>Kenyon - didn’t see but heard it’s a good school.</p>

<p>Hampshire - HATED IT!!! We didn’t even get out of the car to tour it. We thought it was creepy. They are very liberal. </p>

<p>Lewis and Clark - don’t know that one at all.</p>

<p>We were at Oberlin last month for a track meet. The students were a bit “out there”. The campus had some beautiful buildings and some buildings that really needed to be remodeled or torn down. The gym was the worst we’ve seen and the timing device malfunctioned, so now my son, and all the boys in his race, have 14 minute miles on their record. I contacted the school’s coach about the problem. He thanked me and said he’d fix the problem, but six weeks later, it’s still on his profile. At least your son isn’t an athlete.</p>

<p>In our Parents of 2012 thread, a regular poster writes about her D’s visit to Oberlin starting around page 1160. Posting begins with humorous story about seeing at least 4 students going to class/walking around campus barefoot. </p>

<p>Kenyon is less “Hippie” vibe.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Oh, that’s embarrassing. I’m not sure how I got Kenyon and Colorado College mixed up. They’re both colleges that get talked about a lot at Grinnell, and for some reason I must have misremembered. I talked with a student from Colorado College for quite a while when he was at Grinnell visiting a relative, but I guess I must have mentally filed it under Kenyon by mistake. I actually had to google this to make sure I wasn’t going crazy. Sorry about that.</p>

<p>I’ll be the proud parent of a U Puget Sound grad in another month or so. She fell in love with the campus and a French professor when she visited, and 4 years later, continues to be in love with French program and the school, as well as the view of Mt. Rainer from campus when it is clear. Her time there has been very happy, and she has loved and been challenged by her professors. She says there is a little of a slacker mentality that she does not appreciate on campus, but perhaps that could be said of many schools. </p>

<p>She has appreciated how the school has purchased houses surrounding campus, so aside from one year in a dorm, she has lived in student housing, but houses shared with friends, with meal plan options. The music program is highly rated. It is very much a West coast school, but they work on geographic diversity, and the financial support for diversity is part of why she ended up attending. As the parent, I have appreciated that the school is near SeaTac, so an easy and reasonable in cost flight home to the Midwest. </p>

<p>This same D did NOT appreciate Lewis and Clark, despite an outstandingly beautiful campus and wanting to like it. Despite being the offspring of ex hippies, felt it had too much of a hippie/stoner vibe. I’ve known others who have had a very good experience there, however. </p>

<p>The 3 kids I know who have been to Colby, with very different sets of interests, uniformly have had wonderful experiences.</p>

<p>Agree with cptofthehouse: first step is get Fiske or PR- at a library, sit in a bookstore and thumb through, or buy one. You’ll see the vibes the reviewers got. Then, dig into the websites, to see what actual images the colleges project, what the range of student activities is. Look at course catalogs, as Fam3 suggested. It can be a huge issue if what he thinks he wants isn’t available in depth and breadth. (IMO, you don’t choose based on wacky “maybe that sounds interesting” offerings; you check the basics.) Depending on the college and the subject, some schools merge classes to get seats filled or get around the fact that they don’t have profs available. (Eg, combine English classes and gender studies or Middle East political studies with religion. Imagine a poli sci class taught by a religion prof.) </p>

<p>D1 knew her interests within history- so, when she looked at actual course info, she could see which schools didn’t match her needs as strongly as others. She also knew she’d want internships and a strong career-placement center. So, we checked that out. In the end, though, it’s very important the kid has a clear sense he chose after weighing carefully. What we say on the forums can’t replace that.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>The angst comes from the fact that for those who were as politically radically hippie left to their extent means there’s one less school for kids who were like them and wanted a place where they’d belong…especially since they tended to feel the need to hide their opinions…or suffer for having them at most mainstreamed K-12 schools where most of the student body is politically apathetic or right-leaning** like my NYC Specialized high school was when I attended in the early-mid '90s. For them…Oberlin was the first time in their lives they felt comfortable enough to express their true political/social inclinations without fears of being socially ostacized or even punished by TPTB. </p>

<p>Since there aren’t that many schools with campus cultures that were as radically left as Oberlin was when I attended…that is a big loss I can understand…even if I don’t share their radical-left hippie political/social leanings myself. Personally…I just went there for the academics and regarded being out of the fishbowl politically/socially as a learning experience to be savored…not feared. </p>

<p>A large part of that is due to the fact that even if you politically disagreed with the majority…if you can put forth an intellectually honest/credible argument in making your points…however much they disagree unless you’re trying to argue something extremely out there…like the WWII Axis dictators/political systems were the best and their rulers misunderstood…they may not be friends…but they’ll respect you. </p>

<p>If you’re the type who can thrive on being the gadfly type or love to argue politics…even being a devil’s advocate…Oberlin can be a great experience. </p>

<p>On the other hand…if you’re the type who does not want to explain how/why you take a position on anything and want to get away with explaining it away as “just because” or “because I feel like it” or “that’s the way it is”…there’s a tendency for them to regard you as an intellectual lightweight and to treat you accordingly. Granted…I heard this has toned down considerably…which I regard somewhat as a loss considering how well this has served to facilitate my learning process, reasoning/analytical skills, and not being afraid to debate/argue when necessary.***</p>

<ul>
<li>According to the right-leaning conservatives/libertarians except possibly Dartmouth or Princeton.<br></li>
</ul>

<p>** Mostly center-right centrists and conservative libertarians looking to make their mark on Wall Street, Biglaw, engineering/tech, medicine, or business. Interestingly enough…several of them have moved to the left after college…including a few who were hardcore high school Republicans who attended schools dominated by conservatives like Dartmouth or Notre Dame. </p>

<p>*** When sitting in/taking undergrad/grad courses at a couple of Ivies…I was shocked at how passive/intimidated many undergrads were at their more extroverted assertive classmates…even when it was clear the latter was spewing complete BS. In one class…the level of intimidation from one such extroverted student…complete with putdowns was such they asked me to intercede on their behalf with my TA friend and the Prof because they were too afraid of being found out and possible “retaliated against” by that extroverted student. If I was in their shoes and not bound by the TA friend’s request to not participate for decorum reasons…I’d be more than happy to go toe to toe with him/her, rip his/her arguments/points to shreds, and to point out that there’s no place for putdowns in a college classroom.</p>

<p>Oberlin offers outstanding academics, progressive social history, strong commitment to science and students whose main thing in common is their passion for learning. They can also put it down and have wildly funny conversations, then resume their serious pursuit in the next moment. </p>

<p>The characteristic to bring to Oberlin is a tremendous dose of tolerance and acceptance that each person comes with a point-of-view. It’s sport to cross-challenge those points-of-view, too. That’s why it’s known as a liberal campus, and people are visibly and vocally “out there” with their differences. </p>

<p>My Oberlin D, from a liberal household, had individual friends who were politically indifferent, quite conservative, and one Christian fundamentalist. On that last, she finally felt she’d heard his pitch often enough, so and finally asked him to desist as it was tiresome to listen to, as a rabbi’s daughter. Since she was majoring in Religion, his POV was interesting to widen her knowledge of what other people think, but just not endlessly. They found many other things as topics for communication and stayed friends. </p>

<p>From intparent, I now learn that her family encountered a few students who evidently have the point-of-view that showers are not essential! That sounds like an unpleasant encounter, and I too would have taken notice. I hope that POV doesn’t last beyond college, but knowing Oberlin I can make a few guesses: they are trying out to conserve water, they were up all night studying, or they spent the night with a friend and left right from some other dorm to attend classes. OR, they are just really sloppy and nobody is calling them on it, not even their roommate.</p>

<p>Sometimes that campus feels like a living room to its students. A few attend morning classes in pajamas until they get back to their rooms to change, which might be at 11 a.m. And so on. OTHER students there, most in fact, are plainly dressed and who would notice that? A few are groomed really nicely and wouldn’t be caught dead in Obie-public without their khakis and sweater vest. It’s a bell-curve. That these students co-exist is something to either treasure (and attend) or find it discomforting and go elsewhere. </p>

<p>When I attended Oberlin, 68-72, one classmate spent the one-month January Term with blindfolded eyes 24/7, and a cane, to experience blindness. At a deeper level, he also knew he needed to develop some empathy and compassion, but he knew that about himself. During another part of the year, he had read extensively on the topic of blindness, but used January term to explore it on a personal level, too. Nobody thought him strange to do that, either; we understood what he was doing and didn’t disturb his experiment. </p>

<p>I’m describing a degree of tolerance that allows for some mighty quirky sights at Oberlin on a tour, but trying to express what they might mean to the student. I can also understand that some applicants might enjoy that possibility of surprise, and others not so much. </p>

<p>I attended Oberlin and loved it. In that era, there wasn’t enough guidance but students wouldn’t have listened then, anyway. That has been changed a lot, and there is much better intergenerational communication at Oberlin as well as across the nation. </p>

<p>I’m not alone saying that the hardest thing about Oberlin is leaving it after four years. I solved that one by marrying another Oberlin alum, whom I met in the workworld 10 years after graduating. Then among our 3 kids, the middle one went to Oberlin. A few years later we were incredulous to discover the older son had fallen in love with an Obie he met in NYC, so now we have a daughter-in-law Oberlin alum, too. </p>

<p>I am disconcerted about some of the mix-ups described in posts above, where faculty or administrators weren’t thorough or helpful enough to visiting families. I can’t speak for those things, except to say I’m surprised and sorry. </p>

<p>But I can at least put the social “vibe” into some perspective that might help this year’s applicants decide if this highly ranked LAC with the famous liberal reputation might be for them.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Another possibility I’ve gleaned from conversations from some of those who also didn’t shower that often was that it was a form of rebellion against mainstreamed upper/upper-middle class social norms that they felt emphasized mindless conformism, obsession with superficial appearances, excessive consumerism, social control through fashion, etc. </p>

<p>To me…it isn’t much different from how my HS classmates and I would affect the “slacker attitude” of saying we’re planning to be beach bums after graduating to rebel against the prevailing “Elite university/Ivy or bust” mentality common at our HS. </p>

<p>Some of that ethos above was great for me as a working-class scholarship student. It meant no problems wearing hand-me-down clothes for my entire undergrad experience. </p>

<p>If anything…that was one thing which facilitated my integration into their community…especially since when I attended…they tended to harshly dress down anyone who tried to judge others using upper/upper-middle class mainstreamed fashion norms to maintain the laid-back “anything goes” atmosphere. </p>

<p>Only exception to this is if you’re the type to wear corporate-wear to class every day to class as a non-conservatory student and be obnoxious about it. Then again…most students who are inclined in this manner tend to avoid Oberlin like the plague.</p>

<p>Well, my son is a jazz performance (drum) major at Oberlin Con, so he might give your son lessons! </p>

<p>These schools mostly all have a liberal feel to them, interestingly. As far as Oberlin’s saving the environment," Lewis & Clark has one of the top environmental law schools in the country, so the college definitely has that vibe. With all your choices, you really can’t go wrong. In terms of “rankings” Colby, Oberlin and Kenyon are the higher ranked schools, if you care. Check out the political science depts., and see where graduates go, since that’s your son’s interest. As a drummer, he definitely will have opportunities to form bands anywhere he goes.</p>

<p>I suspect that at LACs outside the NE you’re a little more likely to meet students who sincerely want to be there (not who are there because it was their Ivy League backstop). I think, too, that you’ll find a richer intellectual atmosphere at some of the Western and Midwestern schools. Compare PhD production across equally selective schools inside and outside the NE. Reed, Carleton, Grinnell, Kalamazoo, Oberlin and Kenyon do better on this metric than Middlebury, Bates, Trinity, Connecticut College or Colby.</p>

<p>I think I saw mentioned that this list was created with the help of an advisor?
Whatever criteria was considered can be used to create a hierarchy.
Just weight each criteria as to it’s importance and measure the schools against it.</p>

<p>Unless you already have college expenses taken care of, IMO, an easy weed out tool would be expense to your family, not just for tuition, but for transportation to & from.</p>

<p>My kids both attended school on the same coast & enough things have come up that we are grateful they did.</p>

<p>( don’t know a lot about the schools- only one we toured was Lewis & Clark, which suffered in comparison to Reed-we did like emphasis on international study though)</p>

<p>I just conversed with my Oberlin-alum D and want to correct two points. First, her friend was not a Christian fundamentalist, rather a mainstream Christian who enjoyed discussing New Testament a lot. Because she was a religion major, this was a good dialogue for a while. But my use of the word “fundamentalist” was off.</p>

<p>She also said that political science majors whom she knew all complained that, while they had excellent education in theory about the basis of conservatism, there were no in-the-flesh student conservatives on campus to debate. So they debated with each other about the tenets of conservatism, but that’s a different experience. OP’s son is most interested in history and political science, so I thought this important to add as something to know in advance. </p>

<p>She reminded me, “people come to college to change and grow.”</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Never had that issue when I was there and all the poli-sci majors I knew loved the department…and I was a poli-sci minor. Granted, a large part of that was because we were all focused on Comparative Politics with a focus on East Asia…not US politics. </p>

<p>Also…while conservatives were hard to find…they did exist and could be found given enough time and effort.</p>

<p>I’m glad to hear that, cobrat. I’m also thinking of some classmates who were Poli Sci majors. One went on to serve at a high level in the Bush administration, another became a law professor with a decidedly conservative perspective, and so on. From Oberlin, they went on to graduate schools, so the education does not end at Oberlin, either.</p>

<p>^ ^</p>

<p>Agreed. I’ve also known HS classmates who attended conservative-leaning schools like Dartmouth and Notre Dame who have moved left politically since graduation. </p>

<p>Heck…some would fit in far better at Oberlin when I attended than some of my lefty Obie classmates or moreso…myself.</p>

<p>Also, FYI…I’ve read of at least 2 post-2000 Oberlin alums who joined the military as commissioned officers upon graduation. Thus, the stereotypical perception of us as anti-military doesn’t scare off everyone who is inclined towards the military.</p>

<p>Very nice list of schools! Congrats! </p>

<p>My favorite on the list is Kenyon, and then Oberlin. Ohio has a plethora of lovely schools, actually. Kenyon is just beautiful. Picture perfect. The downside, though, is that it is VERY isolated. Some city kids love it, though, it is so different from what they are used to. My city kid, though, needed to go someplace that was close to the city. She loves shopping, and going out.</p>

<p>Seeing Kenyon, Hampshire, Bennington, and UPS on the same list strikes me as very odd. I guess what they all have in common is that they are LACs. But they are in different parts of the country, and I doubt the overlap between Hampshire and Kenyon, Bennington and UPS is very large (!) </p>

<p>I expect a couple of visits will make this easily come into focus.</p>

<p>These are all schools with what I guess could be called an “alternative” flavor. I have a daughter at Bennington (and two at Ivies, I personally like Bennington much better, and many of the students there choose it over prestigious schools). Bennington is legendary in some quarters, so I am surprised that noone in this thread so far has mentioned much about it.</p>

<p>The campus and dorms are beautiful: white clapboard houses with fireplaces and pianos, red barn with classrooms, meadow, mountains. It is small and many of the students are, as someone said, artsy. However, the school has added a CAPA building and program that addresses needs of students who are interested in social/political sciences and action:
[Bennington</a> College: CAPA Program](<a href=“http://www.bennington.edu/Benningtonandtheworld/CAPA/CAPAprogram.aspx]Bennington”>CAPA | Bennington College) and also has, of course, science programs, architecture, and other classes outside of the arts and humanities, though not a place for an aspiring engineer.</p>

<p>Bennington is big on student independent work and interdisciplinary work. Students have a “Plan” that they work out with an advisor. Grades are optional but evaluations and essays are required at the end of each term, and the school is rigorous. Small classes, discussion. Often a student will be guided to other disciplines to make connections or even changes to a desired concentration. For instance, a painter whose work seems systematic may get a suggestion to take biology, or a dancer may take sculpture or writing or neuroscience.</p>

<p>There is a field work term that gets everyone off campus in the winter for 7 weeks. Students go all over the world for internships and other experiences.</p>

<p>Visits are very, very personalized, with individual tours, classes, and a chance to talk to admissions or anyone else if the student wishes.</p>

<p>Not selling it here. My daughter loves it. We also love Oberlin and would love many/most of those schools. Lewis and Clark was mentioned frequently by other applicants at Bennington, actually…</p>

<p>I know a student who is a sophomore at Puget Sound. He was a talented high school student with good grades/scores, and had many acceptances. Chose Puget Sound over other small LACs; he knew he wanted a small school environment. He is very happy at Puget Sound, likes the academics but also has made a lot of friends.</p>