NU or ND?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Northwestern University
1

<p>I'm from CT, and deciding between NU and ND. Will be visiting NU, and revisiting ND, next week. I will most likely be an econ/math/commerce/business major. Any suggestions on what to look for? Both schools seem really great, and I feel lucky to have gotten accepted to both. Anyone have any comments/suggestions about the similarities/differences?</p>

2

<p>Both are top schools. I would personally choose NU… Evanston/Chicago > South Bend. Having Chicago in your backyard can provide for excellent opportunities if you seek them. Also, NU has an excellent econ program, though I can’t really comment on ND’s.</p>

3

<p>I got into both, as well. There are pros and cons to both, but when it comes down to it, I think that NU fits me better as a whole.</p>

<p>A few things that I do not like about ND are the parietals and lack of diversity. But I’ll still probably be visiting a lot, since my sister goes to grad school there! :)</p>

4

<p>Congratulations on your acceptance, gtat6278. I actually transferred to Northwestern from Notre Dame after my freshman year, and it was one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. I’ll try to compare the two as objectively as I can. Apologies for the extreme length of this response.</p>

<p>First, are there any deal-breakers either way regarding tuition or program of study? It doesn’t sound like it. If not, then move on to other factors. </p>

<p>ACADEMICS: </p>

<ul>
<li><p>I think Northwestern has the reputation of being slightly stronger (see US News, etc.), although ND is also well-regarded. I found the faculty to be brighter and more outgoing at Northwestern. Furthermore, I found that Northwestern students just seemed smarter, which was surprising given the similar qualifications of the two student bodies. Workload obviously depends on your major and your aptitude, but I found Notre Dame to be relatively easy. I always finished my homework prior to dinner but was on the dean’s list both semesters. (As an aside, I think I went to a far, far stronger high school than the average Domer.) At NU, I had to work harder, although I actually got higher grades. It didn’t hurt that I felt more engaged with my professors and classmates. </p></li>
<li><p>You actually could construe academics as an advantage for ND in that it has a higher ratio of prestige to actual academic rigor than does NU. In my opinion, NU is a little undervalued prestige-wise; ND, overvalued.</p></li>
<li><p>ND might confer a slight advantage in terms of corporate networking, but this only matters for your very first job role at your very first company. </p></li>
<li><p>NU might confer a slight advantage in terms of professional school and graduate school admission, but this can’t really be construed as a weakness for ND. I will say that a friend got into a PhD program at Harvard partially on the strength of a recommendation from a nationally known professor. This is less likely to happen at ND, because generally its faculty isn’t as strong. </p></li>
<li><p>In any case, I wouldn’t split hairs over academic quality, given that both schools have a relatively high admission standard. </p></li>
</ul>

<p>CAMPUS: </p>

<p>This is highly subjective. Notre Dame’s campus—at least the older part of it—is undeniably pretty. Northwestern’s architecture is less homogenous. You have your James Gamble Rogers buildings (see Yale’s campus) mixed with your Walter Netsch buildings (see Air Force). Many people dislike the latter, but personally I prefer Brutalism to McMansionism (see Notre Dame’s DeBartolo quad). Northwestern’s lakefront is gorgeous.</p>

<p>HOUSING:

  • Housing at Notre Dame is very unique. All dorms are single-sex, and most students live on campus for four years. The dorms serve as surrogate fraternities and sororities. I think most Domers like the fact that ND has no Greek system, when ironically they’re experiencing a bastardized version of one.</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Be fully aware of ND’s arcane policies too. Want your girlfriend or boyfriend to sleep over? Not allowed. Worried that you might end up living across the hallway from an angry priest? It might happen; it did to me.</p></li>
<li><p>Northwestern housing is much more in-line with other schools. Freshmen live in a variety of dorms and residential colleges, mostly in doubles. Sophomores tend to be split between dorms, res colleges, and Greek houses. Upperclassmen tend to live off-campus. Evanston has a lot of nice, pre-WWII apartment buildings close to campus. Rent is expensive compared to most college towns, a product of being in a nice area of Chicagoland. </p></li>
<li><p>NU dorms tend to be a little bit cleaner, if only because sharing a dorm with the opposite sex makes people a little more thoughtful.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>LOCATION: </p>

<ul>
<li><p>Evanston is vibrant, with lots of shops and restaurants, and downtown Evanston is right off the NU campus. Chicago is easily accessible via the CTA. </p></li>
<li><p>Notre Dame is very self-contained. If you make it off campus, you’ll find South Bend depressing. Don’t believe the Domers’ hype that Chicago is nearby. It’s not. It’s doable as a day-trip, but you’re not going to make it there more than once or twice a semester. </p></li>
<li><p>Some people prefer ND’s more autonomous set-up. Most people would greatly prefer NU’s.</p></li>
<li><p>The weather at both schools can get cold, but ND gets a ton more rain and snow because it’s on the eastern side of Lake Michigan.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>SOCIAL LIFE: </p>

<ul>
<li><p>ND is a unique place. The key thing to know is that it’s very self-selecting. Most people LOVE it there; conversely, I think the average college upperclassman wouldn’t necessarily even like it. I can’t picture any of my friends who went to NU (or Georgetown or Yale or Stanford or a flagship state school or a LAC) attending ND and enjoying it. My friends who went to Dartmouth could relate to Notre Dame’s isolation, if not the religious aspect (also, Hanover and South Bend are radically different, although that’s another thread altogether). </p></li>
<li><p>ND is extremely conservative. (Warning: Domers will say they’re political moderates. They’re not; they’re conservative. To put things in perspective, in their minds BYU is conservative rather than arch-conservative and Boston College is outright liberal.) Neighbors in my dorm felt no compunction about criticizing me for dating someone who wasn’t Catholic and for not attending mass. If you don’t believe me, check out the 11-page (and counting) thread on Obama’s upcoming visit to ND in the ND forum. The fact that they’re even having that debate should tell you something.</p></li>
<li><p>ND has one of the most homogenous student bodies in America. If you’re not straight, white, upper-middle-class, and Catholic, you may find yourself not fitting in and may not want to fit in. (When my theology professor conducted a show of hands, I was gobsmacked to find that I was one of only three people in the lecture to have any Jewish friends and the only person who knew what Yom Kippur was.)</p></li>
<li><p>Drinking and football are central to the Notre Dame social experience because of the school’s isolated location. Underclassmen will go to parties in dorm rooms, drink, and watch football. The night before a big football game, no fewer than six people vomited in my dorm bathroom. Upperclassmen will go to one or two off-campus clubs or bars, drink, and watch football. FWIW, most Domers are extremely happy doing this. </p></li>
<li><p>Although it attracts a stereotypically affluent/smart demographic (as all good schools do), Northwestern is more cosmopolitan. Students are more open-minded than at ND, and the social opportunities are more diverse. </p></li>
<li><p>School spirit is present at Northwestern but is far less rah-rah. The average Wildcat is proud of NU’s excellence and its uniqueness but doesn’t think it’s the end-all-be-all. I loved being at NU. I also think I would’ve loved Penn, Rice, or UCLA. The average Domer thinks ND is the end-all-be-all and will tell you so ad nauseam. This can be grating when you know better. For some NU-style school spirit, see this article and the following comments: [Why</a> I chose Northwestern » North by Northwestern](<a href=“http://www.northbynorthwestern.com/2008/04/8480/why-i-chose-northwestern/]Why”>http://www.northbynorthwestern.com/2008/04/8480/why-i-chose-northwestern/)</p></li>
</ul>

<p>CONCLUSION:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>If you are at all able to, schedule an overnight visit at both schools. (Warning: Domers will claim to be happier in school because they hold their school to the standard of Notre Dame and whatever third-rate Catholic high school they attended. Wildcats might gripe a little more because they hold their school to the standard of HYPS or to an idealized vision of what a university should be. It doesn’t mean they’re not actually enjoying a better experience than Domers are.)</p></li>
<li><p>Go with your gut feeling. I got into both schools out of high school. I had applied to NU almost as an afterthought but was wowed by my campus tour. My parents really wanted me to go to ND, and ultimately I bowed to their will (and their checkbook). This was a grave error. Fortunately, NU accepted me a second time as a transfer student. </p></li>
<li><p>As I said, I’ll try to be objective. I’m still in touch with a couple of friends from ND, and they loved their four years there. It is a good fit for certain people.</p></li>
<li><p>If you’re still undecided, go to Northwestern. You’re far more likely to have a solid, typical “good school” experience. A particular mindset loves Notre Dame, but there’s a chance you’ll absolutely hate it and waste one of four precious years in college. NU is a far safer choice.</p></li>
</ul>

5

<p>^ Great write-up Featherston.</p>

6

<p>wow - can’t thank you all enough - Featherston really put it well</p>

7

<p>Northwestern has a top-10 econ department and a top-5 industrial engineering & management sciences (you can take financial engineering there). There’s a 4-yr dual-major program for these two majors. </p>

<p>Even NU doesn’t offer undergrad biz degree, there are many business/finance-related courses and certificate programs available:
[Medill</a> - IMC Undergraduate Certificate<a href=“the%20grad%20program%20is%20by%20far%20the%20best%20in%20the%20nation”>/url</a>
[url=<a href=“Harvey Kapnick Center for Business Institutions - Northwestern University”>Harvey Kapnick Center for Business Institutions - Northwestern University]Harvey</a> Kapnick Business Institutions Program – Weinberg College of Arts and Sciences, Northwestern University](<a href=“http://www.medill.northwestern.edu/imc/undergraduatecertificate.aspx]Medill”>http://www.medill.northwestern.edu/imc/undergraduatecertificate.aspx)
[Northwestern</a> University - Industrial Engineering and Management Sciences](<a href=“http://www.iems.northwestern.edu/]Northwestern”>http://www.iems.northwestern.edu/)
[Kellogg</a> School Certificate Program for Undergraduates - Kellogg School of Management - Northwestern University](<a href=“http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/certificate/]Kellogg”>Certificate Program for Undergraduates)
[url=<a href=“http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu/]MMSS”>http://www.mmss.northwestern.edu/]MMSS</a>, Weinberg College of Arts & Sciences, Northwestern University<a href=“if%20you%20are%20good%20at%20numbers;%20this%20well-respected%20and%20one%20of%20a%20kind%20program%20may%20be%20perfect%20for%20you;%20if%20interested,%20try%20to%20contact%20the%20program%20director%20ASAP%20to%20see%20if%20they%20can%20let%20you%20in”>/url</a>
[url=<a href=“http://www.sesp.northwestern.edu/ugrad/academics/conc/loc/curriculum/]Undergraduate”>http://www.sesp.northwestern.edu/ugrad/academics/conc/loc/curriculum/]Undergraduate</a> :: Curriculum<a href=“learning%20and%20organizational%20change”>/url</a></p>

8

<p>sam lee, can you talk about the iems/econ 4 year program a little more? i tried looking for it on the website and cant find it. Do you know the rigor of it and how much harder it would be than just plain economics? or maybe econ/math? Also, would it help with getting into the kellogg certificate program? or would that just be a ridiculous amount of work. thanks</p>

9

<p>jchen3,</p>

<p>The iems/econ is really just like any other double-major except that it allows you to double-count some of the courses so you can graduate in 4 years quite easily (schedule-wise).</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.iems.northwestern.edu/students/undergraduate/forms.html[/url]”>http://www.iems.northwestern.edu/students/undergraduate/forms.html&lt;/a&gt; (look under “special programs”)
<a href=“http://www.iems.northwestern.edu/docs/undergraduate/ie-econ.pdf[/url]”>http://www.iems.northwestern.edu/docs/undergraduate/ie-econ.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>As far as Kellogg cert goes, it helps in the sense that the dual-major includes pretty much all of the pre-reqs. I don’t think the double-major itself would help you get in though; it probably depends mostly on your GPA.</p>