<p>I recently encountered arguments about what number of applications is appropriate for a student while we discussed about music EC.
There were few threads concentrated on number of applications in this forum several years ago.
Now we are passing the peak of graduating high school seniors but still the college admission will be very tough for next year. Such circumstances make more college bound students to apply many schools as possible.
My sense is firstly that it is a matter of "mis-match". More information is needed for applicants. I believe the most reason of increasing number of applications and lower acceptance rate as its result is the asymmetry of information between college adcoms and applicants, especially in case of highly selective colleges. In other words, this is a problem of oligopoly in tight demand-supply situaion. Isn't it?
Colleges do not disclose what is the normal score range of non-hook applicants, in what magnitude other elements are considered, and so on. I understand that they have rights to select students at their discretion. But lack of accountability make the situation worse. The statements of admission policies at most of colleges seem to me always very abstract and rhetorical. Even I suspect they aim to flame such situation of increasing applications.
What do others think? I am just curious.</p>
<p>I think your thinking is limited to but a small group of schools where there is a supply-demand situation. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of posts referencing various theories why a certain subset of colleges are desireable or why the necessity of a long list of applications or why only “certain” colleges will result in sucessful college outcomes. The vast, vast majority of college bound students apply to a minimal number of colleges and ultimately attend one of them.</p>
<p>I think the largest reason for the increase in applications is the Common App. It makes it so much easier for students to apply to multiple schools that they do.</p>
<p>cost is a big factor…
with multiple acceptances, the student and family can review/compare the financial aid packages once they are received and then make an informed decision by May 1. they are looking at what it’s going to cost to attend that particular school… the total cost of attendance minus scholarships and grants…and… some financial aid packages are heavier on loans than others. </p>
<p>we visited with some nmf’s on a college visit and both said that they had submitted between 10 and 14 applications and then made their final decision in the spring after comparing the f/a packages.</p>
<p>Cost can also be a factor when applying. Many applications have a FEE and these can really add up. </p>
<p>The number of schools truthfully depends on the student. DD originally wanted to apply to only three schools…and you know, we should have just let her do that. She is attending ONE of those three schools and one of the others was her second choice. The third was the only other post acceptance visit she made. She subsequently added a reach school and an ultra safety to the list. To be honest, those two applications were a waste of her time. Her number ONE choice was in the first three schools. She didn’t get accepted at the reach. The three schools to which she originally applied met all of her criteria and she was accepted to all three by mid January (two EA and one Rolling). </p>
<p>So…it depends on the student. My DD did a lot of work crafting her list before she applied. We visited 16 schools with her alone and she also tagged along on 12 other visits with her brother. There were many other schools she could have added to her list, but she really loved those first three. She could have just done those and she would have been done!</p>
<p>Some students apply to a larger range and variety of schools because they want to be able to compare things like financial aid options. Some students apply to all the Ivys and equivalents in the attempt to get accepted to one of them (I’m not sure I understand that strategy…but that is their decision). Some students apply to a wide variety of schools and make up their minds when the are accepted. Any of those methods can work.</p>
<p>Personally, I would rather see a student do a GREAT job with less applications than a so so job with a ton of them…but that is my opinion.</p>
<p>“Personally, I would rather see a student do a GREAT job with less applications than a so so job with a ton of them…but that is my opinion.”</p>
<p>It’s also far easier to do a great job with a few applications. </p>
<p>From what I see, in most cases when students apply to lots of schools, they haven’t been able to take the time to thoroughly research the schools and tailor their applications to each schools. When it comes to interviews, the students become very stressed with having to have lots of interviews that ask the same kind of questions. As a result, students can seem bored, arrogant, disinterested or otherwise can hurt themselves in interviews. By the time spring comes, I see students complaining on CC about being contacted for interviews at top schools. As a person who has been an alum interviewer, I can tell you that one easily can tell when students are tired of being interviewed. Even the most outstanding, personable student can come across as boring, etc. when one is their 10th interviewer. For instance, one of the students whom I inteviewed who didn’t get in had an outstanding background but (I later heard) had applied to many schools. She answered my questions in a rote way and stood up and ended the interview herself, about halfway through the interview. Apparently after I had asked the questions she was used to, she assumed the interview was over because she then thanked me, stood up, shook my hand and left.</p>
<p>She came across as either a control freak or a very arrogant person. I later heard through a friend of hers (who didn’t know my impression of the interview) that the student was actually very personable, but had had a very stressful senior year because of applying to so many colleges.</p>
<p>Mine would have stopped at one application if I’d let him. I insisted on two rolling-deadline safeties; then when he showed clear signs of application season burnout, we agreed to put off the rest of the applications until after his ED decision came in. That was the end of that. Most of his classmates applied to one college, maybe two if they were worried about money at an out-of-state pick. The CC way of doing things is almost completely unknown to his high school. In retrospect, I can’t help but think that CC is probably just a ridiculously tiny sliver of the “college application community,” even for those tippy-top schools. There’s some good advice here, along with some great people who share a wealth of experience and support… but I’m wary of drawing conclusions about applicant pools based on CC reports.</p>
<p>Older S applied to 5 colleges – 2 tier 2 colleges (one public, one private) , 3 top 5 (2 private, one public) ones including one Ivy. He got one rejection: the Ivy. He chose his safety, a 2nd tier public, which had given him virtually a full ride. He had gotten some merit aid from 2 other colleges including a tier one. </p>
<p>Younger S applied to one in-state public (safety), and one private LAC (match, but he knew he’d need merit aid to attend), and was accepted to both, getting merit aid from the LAC. </p>
<p>I do think that with careful research, there’s no need for students to apply to 10 and more schools. I think so many people on CC apply to many schools because they trophy hunt and erroneously think that if they apply to lots of reach schools, they’re bound to get in to one.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE=Northstarmom]
erroneously think that if they apply to lots of reach schools, they’re bound to get in to one.
[/quote]
Ha… Where’s that thread about Art Benjamin saying most people need statistics more than calculus? Here’s a golden example. :D</p>
<p>I only applied to one college, so some people do it.</p>
<p>ed is just not an option for some students. they need to be able to compare the financial aid packages. </p>
<p>i think as long as there is tuition discounting, you’ll see multiple applications.</p>
<p>not all students have the financial resources to be visiting all schools before they apply.</p>
<p>with competitive admissions, there is a need for students to apply to multiple schools. they need to give themselves options.</p>
<p>my oldest would have completed only one application but as the search process went on…we learned that only one application was not the way to go. she was seeking merit aid (scholarships) and/or financial aid (grants). in submitting multiple applications, she received offers from 1/2 to full tuition to full rides. it was definitely worthwhile for her to apply to multiple schools and we are thankful for the advice we received on cc during that period.</p>
<p>one school required an application for admission before they would extend the merit aid offer.</p>
<p>Our s applied to 8 schools </p>
<p>2= high reaches (Yale and Princeton) </p>
<p>3= reaches (duke, WashU, and UNC) </p>
<p>2= low matches (UMCP and U of Miami) and </p>
<p>1=safety (Pitt). </p>
<p>He was accepted to all but the high reaches and recieved huge scholarships at the matches and safety. All in all not a bad way to end up. Just remember to only apply to places you’d be happy at.</p>
<p>
Very well put, condor30. We did not have the luxury of time (or money, really) to take S on a cross-country tour of colleges before applying. So we only looked at schools in our region. We did promise to take him to any colleges that were under serious consideration after the acceptances and finaid offers came in. Because he had good stats, I encouraged him to apply to many places, and he did. 15. Some CC’rs will/did vehemently insist that is not necessary, but it worked for us. In hindsight, a few of the colleges were added at the very last minute (so perhaps shouldn’t have been added at all). The results? 8 acceptances, 1 guaranteed transfer after freshman year, three waitlists and three rejections. He was accepted to his dream school, but won’t be attending because their finaid award wasn’t enough. (Even though they meet 100% of need, the privates don’t look at dh’s business the same way that we do!) That’s okay, though – he will be attending a very good LAC on a full ride merit scholarship and and will therefore get money for law (or grad school) from us. </p>
<p>If he had it to do over again, would he have applied to 15 places? I’ll have to ask him!</p>
<p>thanks deja. glad everything worked out. congrats to your son on the full ride 
</p>
<p>it’s a whole different ballgame when there is a search on for merit aid and grants. </p>
<p>although ed did not work for my oldest, ea was a good option. be sure to get the financial aid application in early as well. merit aid is often awarded on a first come basis.</p>
<p>I am encouraging my twins to apply to more schools than their brother. He applied to about 7, but the last 2 were safeties and done with less interest and last minute. He got into all of them but the aid (especially with the last 2) was all over the place.<br>
I think unless a lot were EA, getting results from 10+ colleges would be overwhelming and stressful in the Spring, but I do reallze the more options you have, the better.
Although I learned a lot, “cutting my teeth” with my son’s applications, I still know there are a lot of unknowns in admissions. Families that make more money will get more “need-based” aid at some schools because they want them, some students will get merit aid without large test scores, some wont, but if you don’t apply, you don’t get anything.
I credit CC with a loud of into on free applications, links to various data sights, etc. which makes it a bit easier to narrow colleges down.</p>
<p>There are two situations in which I would recommend applying to 10-12 or even more schools. </p>
<p>First, if the student is interested in applying to ultra-selectives like HYPSM, AWSP. You don’t need the colleges to tell you that the chance of acceptance is low. I wouldn’t discourage anyone from applying to one, two or even all 9 (10 if you count Wellesey and Williams as “W”), but I would encourage him/her to have a reasonable Plan B. In that case I don’t see 5 reaches, 4 matches and 1 safety as being out of line.</p>
<p>Second, aid. If a student is eligible for need based aid s/he can be reasonably assured of the amount that will be offered. Reasonably, not exactly. Two or three applications will provide a basis of comparison and negotiation. </p>
<p>If a student needs (or even wants) merit based aid, then s/he may have to cast a wider net as awards have always been difficult to predict and in this financial environment, I believe, will be even more competitive.</p>
<p>I don’t see the small and medium sized colleges being more forthright about “chances.” They are building a class and have to factor in so many variables – academic interests, artistic talent, athletics plus diversity in race, ethnicity, religion, geography, economics, politics. . . The chances of an individual applicant are relative to who else is in the pile. In other words, will they admit a violinist or two? Yes. Is your son the best choice among all the violinists who apply? It depends.</p>
<p>I would like to see the less selective and medium selective colleges taking a more aggressive role in early confirmation – either traditional early admissions or more rolling admissions or early acceptances. I think that securing a good but non-binding early acceptance would go a long way in cutting down the number of superfluous applications.</p>
<p>
Yes, there is. Many of son’s schools awarded need-based aid, only, so he didn’t apply for a lot of merit aid. We honestly thought our EFC as figured by FAFSA methods would be close to the one expected from private schools. It wasn’t. (Our oldest son went to a state school, so we were only familiar with FAFSA.) I didn’t even know if S would be accepted, much less awarded the full ride at his school, since its acceptance rate is around 16%, but he insisted on applying for the merit aid there. I honestly didn’t think he’d get the full ride, because his stats aren’t totally in line with the published averages for the kids who got the full ride the year before, and he doesn’t have any hook (URM, etc.). And his GPA/class rank isn’t as high as his SATs would suggest. But he surprised us and got it! (He has state-level EC recognition that the school might have found valuable, he’s an excellent writer – which was commented upon in his scholarship interviews – and he interviews very well.)</p>
<p>
There were pluses and minuses to my son’s two wonderful EA acceptances. The plus was that he knew in mid-December that he was accepted to his top-choice school. The minus was that he didn’t know if he could attend until the first week of April, because we didn’t get the finaid award until then. I ended up appealing the award, but it still wasn’t enough. </p>
<p>It wasn’t that overwhelming to have eight acceptances in hand, really. It came down to two schools in the end, one being our (fabulous) state flagship. He had good choices. He followed the money. : - ) </p>
<p>One good thing about EA applications is that some of the hard work of applications gets finished early. Those first EA essays were revised a bit and used for the other college applications. </p>
<p>It all worked out the way it was supposed to, and we are thrilled that he is getting a full ride, will finish college with no debt, and we can give him the money we would have contributed towards college to him for law school.</p>
<p>I think it depends on the applicant’s ability to handle applications how many she/he may send. If the applicant oraganizes app things very well, she/he may send app as many as possible. If it cost too much time regarding its benefit, one should limit the number appropriately. And I think benefit of many app to selective colleges is not very large. It might be better to spend time in examining applicant’s fitness to particular colleges and her/his advantage/disadvantage carefully.
I really don’t think randomness in admission at selective colleges can be a reason for too many app to those schools. We can talk about “chance” of admission but it’s not that we are talking about “probability”.</p>
<p>If you aren’t just looking at the top 25, there are a lot of state and smaller schools that have very easy applications. Some students, because of he simplicity and at times, free application, will apply to those. They are usually match or safties and they might get merit aid while at another college, they might not.
I remember reading of a few students last year that said they were surprised to get their best offers from the applications they gave the least time on…you never know, but I agree, only apply where you know you will go.</p>