<p>Another thing to think about is having a financial safety. This is a school you know you will be admitted to and can afford. Many people are applying to many more schools because of cost, and not only fear of rejection. They must compare financial packages and are either hoping to be awarded merit aid, and/or fiancial aid.</p>
<p>yes, we've been thinking along those lines. I've been telling D that she needs to apply to at least one state school - either in our state or in a neighboring state with tuition reciprocity.</p>
<p>I guess it just seems to me that when everything this year finally shakes out, the "safeties" will no longer be safe for many kids. Then what?? A school counselor advised at a parent meeting recently to have two safety, two match and two reach schools in mind. But I know many kids in his particular honors program applied to 10-12 schools this year.</p>
<p>I am confused by what some students and parents are calling safeties. I think there is a vast difference between our definitions. A safety as I have learned about it is a school where you/your child matches the academic profile but more importantly it is a school that is less selective.</p>
<p>historygirl2 has four and 2 of them are currently in her top three. Their acceptance rates range between 69 and 83 percent, her stats put her well above the middle for all of them and they all offer rolling admissions. She also has a match 59% and a couple of reaches 43% and 32%. </p>
<p>My kid is your typical top 10% student with some excellent stats, some quite good ones and a couple that could be better. There is no way I would mislead her into thinking that a school that accepted fewer than 1 of every 3 students, or even 1 of every 2 was a match or a safety. This is especially true when you factor in all of the hooked students also applying to that school. You can not forget the selectivity rating when calculating safeties. </p>
<p>Do some kids get into all of their uber-selective choices. Of course but as toydiamond pointed out, many more don't and are left with fewer options and broken hearts. </p>
<p>But back to Chi-Square's original question. If your D has a couple of true safeties looking at both selectivity and student records, she can then feel comfortable applying to as many or as few as happen to catch you eye beyond that.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A school counselor advised at a parent meeting recently to have two safety, two match and two reach schools in mind.
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</p>
<p>The counselor was probably saying the same thing 10 years ago, and my son's school recommended 2-3-2. However, the new reality seems to be that you need to apply to more schools rather than fewer. I have reluctantly come to that conclusion and with 2 more kids in the MS/HS pipeline I expect they will apply to more schools than my oldest: 6. In addition, brutal honesty is needed when it comes to assessing whether a particular school is a reach/match/safety. Don't rely upon admissions data that is more than a year old. The newest info is usually a year old anyway, and admissions can change drastically at some schools in the space of a year. It's easy for matches to become reaches and safeties to become matches, (but how can you ever really know;-)</p>
<p>Regarding OP</p>
<p>An 'uber safety' is in order admissions-wise and financially. This may not be a very attractive alternative, but 3rd tier, hometown State U needs to be on the list. These schools often have rolling admissions and it's a good idea to apply as early as possible to lock up your safety. You don't want to be frantically searching for a safety in February - or later! In addition, the processes of applying to a safety very early in the senior year will give you a feel for the time and level of effort required to complete an application and get SAT/ACT scores & transcripts sent. Consider it a trial run for the schools you really want to apply to, although those schools will likely require much more in the way of essays and recommendations.</p>
<p>For the remainder of the schools you are thinking about applying to, try to learn about them in depth. Just because a school is highly regarded by others doesn't mean it will be appealing to you. Just because the common app makes it easy, doesn't mean you should apply. A carpet bombing approach to applications doesn't make sense. It just kicks the can down the road in terms of determining the suitability of a school to your tastes and aspirations. My son visited all 6 schools he applied to. His list started with about 15 schools. About 4 were eliminated after learning more about them from print or internet sources. 3 more were eliminated after campus visits. 1 was eliminated for distance reasons. 1 was eliminated after he was admitted to his safety in November. That's just the way it worked out for him. If someones list is left with 10 or 12, then apply to all of them.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, another reason to apply to more schools is that admissions seem to be more whimsical than ever. While I'm sure the schools would disagree, they begin their waitlist letters by pointing out how many qualified applicants they had and how many outstanding students they wish they could have offered a place in the class of 20xx at TopTier U. How then do they decide who to select among the myriad of highly qualified candidates? Who the heck knows -- which is exactly why you might get admitted, and in turn, why you might as well apply. The last dozen kids to get in are probably all admitted for different reasons. You will need to make sure that you are among those highly qualified though.</p>
<p>SAFETY COLLEGE </p>
<p>A safety college is one that </p>
<p>1) is pretty much certain to admit the applicant, based on its known behavior in acting on admission applications,</p>
<p>2) has a strong program in an area the applicant is interested in,</p>
<p>3) is affordable based on its known behavior in acting on financial aid applications,</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>4) is likeable to the applicant. </p>
<p>This definition is meant to imply that different students have different safety colleges. This definition, in part 1), is also meant to imply that if you have doubts about whether or not you'll get in (as in "do I need another safety?"), then it is NOT a safety. Line up a sure-bet safety college first of all. Be dead certain it meets all the characteristics listed above, or it's not a safety for you. </p>
<p>Thus far my FAQ about safety colleges. My oldest son will know in a month or so if the friendly state university is a "safety" college for him, because he is applying for dual-enrollment high school study there for eleventh grade. For the moment, we feel sure, subject to revising our opinion based on new evidence, that he is a sure bet for admission there as a matriculated freshman. </p>
<p>Any other college you add to your list is gravy, or icing on the cake, or whatever edible metaphor you prefer. I don't make a distinction between "reach" and "match" colleges, because if a college is not a sure-bet for getting in, you still need to add a safety to your list. Once you have a safety in hand, develop your own sense of what colleges you like, how many applications you want to fill out (fewer than you may think at first, I suspect), and what you can afford. There is simply no use applying to a college that you are SURE you can't afford. There is also no use applying to a college that you wouldn't be happy to attend--HAPPY to attend, not just willing to attend. It's okay to load up your application list with "reach" colleges (remember, they are reach colleges if they are not your safety college) as long as you have the time to fill out the applications, really aren't sure which one you like best, really aren't sure which one is most affordable, and really are sure they have something to offer that might make you prefer them to your safety. </p>
<p>Of course if colleges offer a nonbinding early action round, you can test the waters by applying to colleges then, as you also can by applying early to "rolling admission" colleges. It's easy on the nerves to apply somewhere in October that gives you news by December. That might considerably reduce how many colleges you apply to in total, if you get good news early. </p>
<p>To sum up: apply to one safety, for sure. Apply to as many other "reach" colleges as interest you and as you can stand.</p>
<p>There are some schools which are 100% safeties, i.e., they will automatically let in students with a certain score or above on the ACT/SAT (provided core course requirements are met), or with a certain index of grades and test scores. Examples of such schools include the University of Iowa, the University of Missouri, the University of Kansas, Arizona State University, the University of nebraska, the University of Montana, and the University of New Mexico. </p>
<p>Of course, these schools are not for everyone, though many have particular departments which are nationally renowned (Mizzou--journalism; Iowa--creative writing as examples). They are, however, at least with current standards, absolutely safe for kids who meet the standards, and if a child would be happy at one or more, afford a measure of security to the admissions process.</p>
<p>Wow, I only applied to 2 schools - 1 math and 1 reach. I actually chose the match because I felt more at home on the campus.</p>
<p>Tokenadult has given a definition for a "safety school", does anyone have one for a "match school"? Seems like it is a tough call. Safety and reach seem clear, but match. Perhaps it is why Tokenadult only uses the two. But I would be curious to see someone's definition.</p>
<p>My question, too, hikids. I thought it was a school where your stats fall in the middle to upper range, but judging by the carnage on the boards this year, that doesn't seem to apply.</p>
<p>Come back, tokenadult!</p>
<p>Yes, the reason given above is why I think the term "match" isn't helpful to applicants building an application list. If your child has strong stats, it might be that a particular college's entering class brackets your child's scores, with your child at the high end, but if that college has a low base acceptance rate ("low" here being defined as 70 percent or lower), then you still need to find a safety, and should still consider that "match" college a "reach" college for your purposes of building a list.</p>
<p>At my kids old high school, the policy was to send documentation for no more than 8 applications. The GC would state this in the accompanying letter. (So the university would know that the kid was serious about applying there.)</p>
<p>I think a match school is a school where your scores and GPA put you in the middle 50% of the acceptance range. Depending on the selectivity of the school they may or may not be easy to get into. Most of my son's matches were also reaches because they were so selective. But his safety fit Tokenadult's definition perfectly - school acceptance history suggested a sure bet, 75% acceptance rate, very bright self selected applicant pool and great engineering program, and best of all they had a priority application so that Mathson knew he was in by Thanksgiving.</p>
<p>My S1 applied to 7 schools --</p>
<p>1 safety -- ~45% admit rate, in-state flagship, very nice merit $$, S worked with mentor there (received full merit ride plus $3k/yr. stipend)</p>
<p>2 targets -- admit rates in mid-20% range, Accepted to one EA with merit $, Accepted to one RD and merit $ pending (we hope!). He showered them with love and his best essays.</p>
<p>2 reaches -- 17-19% admit rates, Deferred EA/Waitlisted/declined WL at one, Rejected at the Ivy</p>
<p>2 super-reaches -- 11.6% and 7.1% admit rates, Accepted to one EA (showered them with love and great essays), Rejected at the Ivy</p>
<p>Because S did really well in EA, he dropped a safety and a target, and switched from one super-reach to another in mid-December. Having good news in December took all the stress off. Knowing he liked every one of his schools and that he could see himself choosing any one of them over the other also was a great thing. He could see himself at his safety with many of his incredibly bright friends, all on merit scholarships.</p>
<p>He spent a lot of time developing his list and it paid off. Most of his schools were very self-selective and his approach to them paid off. He got into every school he really wanted and was not on a trophy hunt. He had several major awards, stellar test scores (above 75%tile at every school he applied to), very difficult schedule, and great, but not perfect, grades.</p>
<p>For my younger son, we're probably looking at ten schools, but leaning more towards places that are less of a crapshoot. The schools that he likes range in selectivity from 18-35% admit rates (plus the state flagship). We'll have to talk about reality, but acknowledge that he wants a great overall experience at a place he likes and respects. He would like to play D-III football (doesn't think he'd be recruited for D-I or II), and with SATs in the 2100-2200 range, that may attract interest. GPA 3.5/4.2 UW in very tough selective entry IB program.</p>
<p>"A school counselor advised at a parent meeting recently to have two safety, two match and two reach schools in mind."</p>
<p>I also think this is outdated advice. Unless there are only two reach schools that interest you, this is not a strategy that is likely to get you admission into a reach school, because their admit rates have become so small. Note that for the very selective schools such as the Ivies, what makes them a reach is not just the very high qualifications needed, but that they only accept a fraction of applicants who actually have those high qualifications. If you read through acceptance threads here on CC, you will find many, many people who got into one Ivy, but not another. Often it is difficult or impossible to explain why--there was something about "fit" or some other factor that the applicant couldn't predict. This argues for applying to more, not fewer, reaches.</p>
<p>Agree with Hunt. A definition of "reach" MUST include the selectivity of the school involved. For a very, very strong student, "matches" may be even reachier than reaches because of yield management.</p>
<p>Our GC was also recommending six schools this year. After seeing S's friends' results, not many took that advice. Ten seemed to be the number, yielding 6-7 acceptances.</p>
<p>well, as a high school senior, I applied to 15 schools this year.
3 safeties- IU, Pittsburgh, Michigan State
6 matches- Michigan, Notre Dame, Emory, Vanderbilt, Case Western, Carnegie Mellon
6 reaches- Cornell, Penn, Northwestern, Rice, Washington (St. Louis), Swarthmore</p>
<p>I got into 3 safeties, 5 matches, and 2 reaches, which I thought was pretty good. In hindsight, I probably could have done without Pitt, Case, and Swarthmore, but oh well. Emory and Carnegie would have been borderline. By the way, I was waitlisted at Carnegie yet admitted to Northwestern and WashU so admissions is really a crapshoot. Most of these schools have relatively low admit rates, but I would advise at least 7 schools as a good number. Also, I think multiple safeties are a good idea. A high number of reaches I think maximizes your chances of getting into at least one of them. Anyways, good luck.</p>
<p>My advice is to make a list of everything that you want in a college, use a search tool like the one at college board or use CC to find all of the colleges that fit your preferences. If you have safeties and matches in that list, great. If not, look for some that fit most of your needs. Don't worry about a nember. Just apply to all of the schools that fit you and make sure that includes matches and safeties.</p>
<p>burnedout21's example is a good one: what would have been the result if he (or she) had chosen to apply to only two reaches, but chose the "wrong" ones?</p>
<p>
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burnedout21's example is a good one: what would have been the result if he (or she) had chosen to apply to only two reaches, but chose the "wrong" ones?
[/quote]
He'd be attending one of his match schools. Nothing wrong with that.</p>