<p>On the comparison between AP and IB math/science curricula, see:</p>
<p>Chapter 9
Analysis of AP and IB Curriculum, Instruction, Assessment, and Professional Development
Learning and Understanding: Improving Advanced Study of Mathematics and Science in U.S. High Schools (2002)
Center for Education (CFE)
The chapter is available on line at the National Academies Press site (I tried to link, but it reverted to the full title of the book).</p>
<p>On the writing-based character of the IB program, most would cite the TOK as being effective in training students to read critically and write well. This is prized by profs, but I do not know if it provides an advantage over an AP curriculum. Profs generally do not serve on adcoms.</p>
<p>From the report on chemistry (because it's my pet interest and I don't know anything about physics), here:</a>
<p>The IB curriculum, in some sense, flanks the AP course, with expectations that are either higher or lower than those for AP Chemistry. The IB SL course is at a lower level than AP with respect to the content coverage; the IB HL course is at a somewhat higher level than AP in terms of the topics discussed, especially in light of the HL options. The AP curriculum deals in greater depth than IB with concepts related to kinetic molecular theory, chemical kinetics, and equilibrium. In contrast, the IB curriculum at least introduces concepts from organic chemistry, an area generally not included in the AP course. The IB courses also provide students with some opportunities to develop conceptualizations of the material presented; most such opportunities are lacking in AP courses. In IB courses, chemical concepts are often taught within a context, and examination questions are designed to assess several aspects of a concept, not merely one or two. To cite one example, enthalpy changes in solution are linked to thermal changes, as well as experimental design and sources of error. Bond dissociation energies are associated with environmental changes such as stratospheric ozone depletion. In these aspects, the IB course is broader in content and outlook than its AP counterpart.
<p>IB Physics contains no calculus, and as a result cannot pursue the detailed study of electric and magnetic fields found in AP Physics C. The panel believes that the mathematical study of electricity and magnetism should be an available option in the IB program that could be selected by an instructor with mathematically advanced students.
The report also states that "IB Physics examinations generally place more [my note: but, they go on to say, still insufficient] emphasis on conceptual understanding than their AP counterparts". I'm not sure what to take from it, because I only barely managed A-'s in physics freshman and sophomore year, and that was mostly luck, but I guess if you really want to get into calculus-based studies of electricity and magnetism (?) in high school, AP Physics C is the way to go. No single curriculum can be everything to everyone, so to each his own.</p>
<p>Hi, cameliasinensis, I've enjoyed your posts in this thread. (Thanks to Marite for the specific link that we have both found so interesting.) I would characterize the IB tendency toward a more historical, writing-oriented approach to science courses as just that: a tendency. Probably in most countries how a course based on the IB syllabus is taught has much to do with how courses in that some subject are generally taught in the country. So it may be that United States IB courses don't seem as noticeably different from AP courses as IB courses taught in Europe might. A standard curriculum can't standardize everything that goes on in the classroom. There are high schools here in the States (as I learned from the AP physics teacher email list) in which the same class in the same classroom has a dual IB/AP designation, which must require some ingenuity on the part of the teacher. </p>
<p>On the one hand, science is science, and all over the world the basic facts of physics or chemistry are the same. On the other hand, there are traditions of curriculum scope and teaching practice that are transmitted in national cultures or in particular kinds of school systems. Because I read Chinese, I enjoy looking at school textbooks from Chinese-speaking countries. (My best collection of those is in math.) Sometimes the "same" subject can look very different as presented by different textbook authors, and yet all textbooks on a particular subject have unavoidable areas of commonality in topics. </p>
<p>As for the Harvard admission officers, and the admission officers at other highly selective colleges, they have to develop a very wide-ranging acquaintance with school systems and curricula all over the world. A student who can find a way to do something internationally comparable in a subject (for example, participate in an "olympiad" style competition in science) at least can help the admission officer know what the outcome of a particular curriculum is. And yet not all successful applicants to such schools have such achievements, so sometimes the admission officers have to make debatable comparisons between differing schools or differing curricula.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I read A Is for Admission when you were no older than elementary school age, I'm sure.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Well, i will just infer that u weren't trying to offend me and that u ment it in a different way.
Moving on, Ib standards are the same in ALL COUNTRIES. The IBO has a designated curriculum that is the same for all countries no matter what. So no, it isn't the case in the USA. Each IB school is impelled to have taught to its students everything that is required for the IB. So all subjects are taught the same. The emphasis that is put is equivalent, since sample of internal work is sent to the IBO in addition to external exams and it has to fulfil the expectations of the IBO. </p>
<p>And to conclude, i am in this thread to actually exchange information, not innuendos about others. So try not to be so offensive next time. Perhaps i am reading too much into this. Perhaps not. In case i am reading too much into this, i apologize.</p>
<p>I'm just saying that I read the book A Is for Admission the year it was published. If you are a current college applicant, you were quite young that year. Generally, when I read a nonfiction book about a current issue, I note the date of publication, to check how current the information in the book is. </p>
<p>More generally, a standards-making body can specify a curriculum--most states of the United States do this--but that doesn't mean that every classroom that claims to follow that curriculum does an equally good job of teaching the curriculum. I'm sure the variance in IB scores among different students in IB schools results in part from differences in the "ability" the students have before they begin their IB studies, or differences in the "motivation" they have during their studies, but differences in IB test scores (not everyone gets a 7 on each IB test) may also result from teachers varying in how well they teach the IB content. This is the main point I have been making throughout this thread, and in some other threads about the IB curriculum that have been posted here on CC: the IB curriculum seems to be soundly designed, and I wish it were more broadly available through distance learning, but it may not always be delivered as well as the designers hope. And because of that point, I wouldn't count on enrolling in an IB school alone as a guarantee of maximum probability of admission to a fine college like Harvard. </p>
<p>I have no idea they number of IB candidates applying, but it does count for something. However, it's not a guarantee and not much of an advantage. The IB diploma can be really good if you combine it with 2 or 3 languages, online courses, college courses, summer seminars, 300+ community hours, etc. Which would probably have the same results as someone who took all AP's plus 2 or 3 languages, online courses, etc.</p>
<p>Thing is, ther number of IB students applying is not going to give you less of a chance or more of a chance. My school offers IB and Im not taking it simply because I created a better program for myself. If you are IB, don't worry about how many IB kids are applying, just make sure you get your diploma and do EVERYTHING else. Do contests, extracurriculars, community projects, etc. IB helps but it's not a huge deal, so just make sure you have everything else together and you will have a chance. :)</p>
<p>well, i am an IB student. all I can tell you is there evey year there are around 5-10 people from my school or IB program of 120 something students attend IVY league schools and Stanford and U-Chicago and etc. Therefore, basically, being an IB student with a score higher than 41 has a big advantage over others. By the way, our school is even not in the states.( we are situated in vancouver, Canada)</p>
<p>Taking the most challenging classes offered is always an advantage, but I doubt that IB versus AP makes a significant difference. For instance, if I against all statistical likelihood get into my top choice, Princeton, it'll be because of my grades, scores, activities, essays, art supplement, and challenging course schedule in general were deemed satisfactory, not because I specifically happen to attend an IB high school. Looking at the number (and relative importance) of factors that are considered in admissions, I just don't think you can say that IB students have a "big advantage" over AP students here.</p>
<p>I think posts # 27 and # 29 have the gist of it right. The total package of the applicant is always what matters. The IB brand name, the AP brand name, and any other major brand name of curriculum has enough students applying that any one Ivy League college (ESPECIALLY Harvard, the subject of this forum) will be in a position to have to reject a lot of applicants who used that brand name of curriculum. The numbers simply work out that way. I hope each high school student has a chance to shop around for a challenging high school curriculum, and I'm glad that some schools are taking up the IB curriculum. But the student always has to apply initiative to go beyond the high school curriculum to have the best chance.</p>