Number of Students in College FA question

Paying for College
1

<p>Hi folks,</p>

<p>I thought I was pretty savvy with the FA arena, but was a bit blind-sided recently when we received our middle son's FA award letter, and subsequent fall bill the next week with very little time to even process it. Our older son just graduated from an undergraduate school and our middle son is a rising junior at a different institution. Our oldest is going onto medical school and we were aware that at that point, you're pretty much on your own, in terms of loans and so forth. However, we were not prepared for the drastic reduction in FA from our middle son's school. We expected that we would be paying what we were last year in total, only for the one remaining in college, but rather, the sum is much, much larger. </p>

<p>Even though our son's EFC is ~7K, our bill is more than 4x that. We are unclear about the numbers, but a swift 24 hour email appeal request and denial from the school just said that it was because we now only have 1 in school and that post-graduate education does not count. Even with that, though, it seems bizarre that the amount we are expected to pay this year, is nearly half again as much as we paid last year, with two in school? What am I missing? They did not give me details on the phone or in the email regarding what EFC/Parent Contribution they calculated, so we do need to see how those numbers were comprised. The only thing we received was the FA Award letter, stating the loans and university grant being offered. </p>

<p>Of note, my older son went to a great school whose financial aid office was incredibly helpful, all four years. They tweaked and adjusted every which way they could to help his education be affordable for our family. They were a 100% met need college. Our middle son's school is not 100%, but it's a little hard to figure out where they are exactly, even though Princeton Review has them listed as perhaps nearing 90% we did not see that, so there must be some averaging in there affecting those stats. Even still, what I am missing is how our total college tuitions for one student are now $10K more than they were for two in school. Nothing else has changed in regards to income, etc. though our home value has decreased like everyone else's, and our equity loans increased paying for tuitions!</p>

<p>Can anyone help with this? I know all schools do things a bit differently, but is this true of most schools? We had one in school for two years, and two in school for two years, so I thought we had this all figured out. Apparently not. </p>

<p>Respectfully submitted,
Frazzled Mom</p>

<p>(Sorry so long)</p>

2

<p>If the school just uses FAFSA, your total EFC is halved if you have two kids in college. For PROFILE schools, it’s usually 60% of what a school would calculate your contribution to be, when you have two kids in college. </p>

<p>So when your older son graduated college, yes, your contribution is going to go up drastically. They way the colleges look at it, is that what you were paying for the older one, can now go towards the other ones expenses. I’m not sure what you find peculiar about this. It makes all of the sense in the world. </p>

<p>Basically, the only reason you got the amount of aid for your second son, was because the school was taking into account that you had two in college. Now that you do, not you lose that benefit and paying half again as much is the way it usually works.</p>

<p>Frankly, you are lucky to have a school that does not guarantee to meet need to do this. I have seen families get a token increase when a second one goes off to college because the first college makes no guarantee to meet need and is not about to do it.</p>

3

<p>I probably did not explain that well, sorry. Of course, we expect to pay at least double, but not sure why it’s double plus another half again. Does that make sense? Given nothing else has changed, we are now expected to pay as if we had two, plus another. (in dollars not kids). I understand how it is halved and so forth, but how it went from what it was last year for him, to twice that plus 50% That is what is puzzling. Not that it was doubled. Sorry I did not explain it clearly.</p>

<p>Is this common to happen? We were already used to paying all of it for one student for two years, so we get that it changes with enrollment, it’s just the degree of reduction seems way too much, given what the EFC is. We need to go over everything carefully. Maybe we messed up, but I don’t think so. The school’s explanation was that it was just that we no longer had two in college. </p>

<p>On a side note, is this true at all schools when one is in undergraduate and another in graduate but is still a dependent based upon your fasfa?</p>

4

<p>Hmmmm…</p>

<p>Since S2’s school doesn’t promise to meet need, then they can pretty much do what they want. </p>

<p>However, i don’t understand the 4X part.</p>

<p>you say that your EFC is $7k. Last year, was this child’s EFC about $3500? If so, then he qualified for Pell and now that’s gone…and the school isn’t making up that loss. This also can mean loss of SEOG grants, and also maybe Perkins loans and work study (if the school only gave those to Pell eligible students)</p>

<p>If his EFC was about $3500 last year, what all was in his FA pkg last year? Can you give details…</p>

<p>how much for:</p>

<p>Pell Grant
SEOG
State aid
Direct loans sub
Direct loans unsub
Perkins
work study</p>

<p>And detail what he got in his FA pkg this year…</p>

<p>I’m guessing that it’s the loss of Pell eligibility that is causing the problem…and/or the loss of qualifying for any state aid as well. This isn’t unusual…many times when a family loses Pell status, then other aid goes away too…</p>

5

<p>Oh shoot! There’s part of the problem, I have a typo there! Thanks Mom2! In my efforts to try not to put up too much monetary detail I messed up the EFC. That is incorrect. My numbers, though are correct. We will be paying twice, plus an additional 50% this year on the bill as compared to last year’s bills for both kids. He never received any Pell grants. Sorry for the confusion. My eyes are bleeding after two days of dealing with these figures and the FA office. I am very sad to say that they are nothing like my older son’s school :(</p>

<p>I definitely agree, that what is, is. I just need to understand how they came about these numbers. Their only response via email at 5:38pm tonight was that it was because my older son was no longer in u/g school and they automatically dropped 10K off my middle son’s grant portion…which monetarily didn’t compute with me either. Not sure where the 10K came from, as that doesn’t add up either, but they must have their own formulas? Our older son’s school used to send us very detailed paperwork on everything, summer expected earnings, etc. so we knew exactly what was going to happen.</p>

6

<p>Ok…please clarify…</p>

<p>What was S2’s EFC last year?</p>

<p>What is S2’s EFC this year?</p>

<p>I can understand the school taking away X in grants If X = the change in EFC for this year.</p>

<p>no, you don’t count a grad student on your FAFSA. He’s a “household of 1” on HIS FAFSA. If you were to also count him, then he’d be counted twice.</p>

7

<p>Quite honestly, I’m really wondering whether or not we should look to have him transfer to a more affordable school. Reality stinks, but my husband and I also need to think about keeping our home solvent. If we were to ask our son to consider this, it might be the only time to do it. We certainly wouldn’t ask him to do it going into his senior year. Two years ago when he chose this school, we never, ever thought we’d be in this position now, but financially, after sending one, then two kids to school over four years total, it’s really made a mess of our finances. It’s tough to have bright kids as most of us do, and have to make those tough financial decisions, but in hindsight, I wish we had been more realistic about what we could afford.</p>

8

<p>It sounds like your S2’s EFC was about $7k LAST year. If so, then his EFC is about $14k for this year. BUT…the school is expecting you to pay $21k for this year? Is that right?</p>

<p>Do you have both years’ FAFSAs? How did the EFCs change?</p>

<p>And, last year, S2 had a bigger grant, and this year the school removed $10k. </p>

<p>Please correct as needed.</p>

<p>Is your son taking full Direct loans? Is he working to contribute anything?</p>

<p>I don’t think transfering is the answer…transfers get WORSE aid…sometimes NO aid. </p>

<p>I just realized…with your S1 in med school, your household size is smaller so your EFC doesn’t just double. The assumption is that S1 is not being supported by you at all.</p>

9

<p>Transfer students also often will loose credits in the transfer, so he could end up taking more time to graduate overall, possibly erasing the savings on tuition. However, depending on the cost of the transfer school and how many credits would transfer it could work to save money. It will likely depend on the school.</p>

<p>Any way S2 could graduate a year or semester early? Could he take classes for a summer or a semester at a local CC or state university and transfer the credits to the school he is currently attending to cut down costs?</p>

10

<p>Thanks for the ideas and advice, Mom2 and KatMT. Mom2, I pm’d you some more numbers. Sorry, I had to find them and get more info from my DH when he got home, and then it seemed too long to post here.</p>

<p>The transfer option I was thinking of was to one of our state colleges. Credit exchange could be challenging, but he is at a great school currently so hopefully things would transfer well. The FA piece would be a non-issue, because there would be no F/A at all at our state school, or at least he received negligible amounts when he received packages two years ago, and they were for merit not need.<br>
I had another thought, too, possibly commuting his senior year to save some. Or even this, if it seems like we need to do that last minute. </p>

<p>Thanks so so much, guys. Brain hurts. Need to re-boot in the am :)</p>

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<p>In addition to the EFC doubling (if EFC is what is being used for aid purposes), it could bump your family into a whole other category for aid For example, if your EFC is above a certain amount, you get zero Pell. In NY if your income is over a certain threshhold, you get zero TAP funds. It could be that with one in college, it pushes your EFC into a category where the aid drops precipitously. </p>

<p>Also, most school do expect the student and sometimes the family to be contributing a bit more each year. That, in addition to going up in EFC when losing the second student, might do it.</p>

<p>Really, though, only the financial aid officer can tell you exactly how the cuts were made. In a school that does not guarantee to meet need, along with schools that define need themselves, there can be any number of reasons.</p>

<p>I’m sorry this happened and for the complications it is causing.</p>

12

<p>Thanks, cptofthehouse. I need to get past the brusk email sent by the FA director and make the call to speak with our FA person at the school to get more information regarding how all the numbers worked out. I’m sure it is to the letter correct on their end with their own formulas and so forth, and they’ve made it clear that they are not budging. Given the big picture here for our family, we really have to weigh the cost benefits for our son and our financial futures. If he were studying engineering, it would be one thing…</p>

<p>Sorry for the dreary candor. Somehow this financial stuff has taken over my ability to sleep! Need to focus on the goals here and try not to look backwards. You always think that you are doing the best thing for your children at the time. Still learning here. Appreciate everyone’s thoughts and advice. :)</p>

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<p>My friend had two daughters in college at the same time–they were a year in part in age, but the older one went to community college for a year before transferring to the local state university. The other one went to Duke. The financial aid formula for Duke apparently used one big number for two in college. In any case, when the older daughter dropped out of college, the cost for Duke skyrocketed, not just doubled. It was just the way the formula worked. Like you, they had assumed that the proportional cost would just be assessed.</p>

<p>Yes, don’t let the tone of the fin aid letter get you upset. They get many, many appeals, and tend to deal with them curtly. unless they see something that is a mistake or can be reviewed. But they don’t always catch ALL of their mistakes, and it is important that you understand how this works, so ask for a phone conference appointment rather than trying to catch an officer on the fly.</p>

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<p>If your son can commute this year, then have him do so.</p>

<p>I just saw your PM’s and answered them. :slight_smile: I think I know what the issue is. I’m guessing that S1 either attended a school that gave super-aid or no loans in FA pkgs, so you weren’t ever paying the FAFSA EFC amount for that child. Did S1 take out student loans to help reduce EFC? or was his school one of those super generous ones (like HYPS)?</p>

<p>If so, then I can see why your “expected contribution” to S2’s school REALLY jumped from what you were paying last year. </p>

<p>Using made up numbers for last year to protect privacy…This is what I’m guessing happened… :)</p>

<p>S1’s FAFSA EFC was $10k…but you only had to pay $5k (likely attending a very generous CSS school)</p>

<p>S2’s FAFSA EFC was $10k</p>

<p>Then you’d only have paid $15k last year for two kids.</p>

<p>so…the impact of S1’s graduation…and this year’s EFC for S2 with only one in college…</p>

<p>S2 EFC = $22k (higher than just doubling because now household count is lower.)</p>

<p>But, you thought you’d only have to pay about $15k…but that wasn’t a practical expectation since you weren’t paying the FAFSA EFC amount to S1’s school. </p>

<p>I can see this sort of thing happening a lot when the family has two in college, but Child #1 attends a super-aid school, or no-loan school, or has a huge merit scholarship (so the family is paying a fraction of that child’s EFC)…and Child#2 isn’t attending a school like that.<br>
So, the family is paying (fraction of EFC) + (EFC) for two kids. </p>

<p>So, when Child #1 graduates, Child #2’s FAFSA EFC more than doubles so the expected family payout is a lot more than double what the family HAD been paying when it had two in college - with one child costing a fraction of his EFC. </p>

<p>Am I explaining this clearly…lol…trying. :)</p>

15

<p>Thanks, again, cptofthehouse. It is a challenge trying not to compare apples and oranges with our sons’ schools, in terms of helpfulness, and interestingly, the small school “that changed our lives” is the one that is much harder to deal with. One would think that with so few students they would be more helpful, or at least, understanding. I am so grateful for the experience that we had with our older son’s FA officer. She jumped through hoops to assure we were giving her all the information that she could use to offer as much as assistance as possible to our son. I really need to send her a graduation card thank-you to help us for the past four years. It can be night and day at different schools, and some schools count grad students in their formulas, and some do not. I was aware our middle son’s school would not, but not as clear on how they have a carte blanche number that they automatically use (as referenced in their email), but I will find out more when I speak to them.</p>

<p>By the time our youngest is choosing a college, we will have even more information to think about with all of our experience with our first two. Silver lining in that ;)</p>

16

<p>There is always something that comes up and things are changing quickly, Capecodlady. I have 5 of them, and it’s still a whole new thing. I was talking to an admissions director recently who told me that they are now starting to feel more of the brunt of the economy in terms of full pay students choosing not to go that selective school, probably because of cost. When families deemed able to pay, are balking in larger numbers, the trickle down (or deluge down is more like it) effect will certainly hit those who by formula, need the aid. </p>

<p>My firend, whose only son is a full pay student, withdrew his acceptance to a school when he cleared the waitlist for another. They got a call asking if the reason was financial and if it was, that maybe something could be worked out. Some schools are finding it a more effective way to use their funds, by offering $5-10K “merit” awards to full pay kids to get the $50 -55K that such families can afford to pay rather than using the money to barely pay for someone who is on financial aid and may still not be able to come up with the family share of the cost and be begging financial aid for years for the money, and maybe have to drop out. These are realities that the administrations have to face, as they want and need full enrollment and so much in tuition coming into the school.</p>

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<p>Bingo, Mom2!!
That pretty much nails it, thank you. After pouring over everything back and forth I was coming to realize exactly that…we were very blessed with S1 being at a very generous No Loan School. (and one that was super helpful even beyond that, tweaking here and there to individualize the package)</p>

<p>Feel like a freshman parent again, with sticker shock, only this time we’ve already bought the car! Oy! ;)</p>

18

<p>Bingo, Mom2!!
That pretty much nails it, thank you. After pouring over everything back and forth I was coming to realize exactly that…we were very blessed with S1 being at a very generous No Loan School. (and one that was super helpful even beyond that, tweaking here and there to individualize the package)</p>

<p>Feel like a freshman parent again, with sticker shock, only this time we’ve already bought the car! Oy! ;)</p>

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<p>I was thinking the same thing capecodlady. Your son #1’s school was a super generous no loan policy school that was extremely helpful to us when they were one of my son’s top choices. Their initial offer was better than princeton’s (and he told them so!). Of course after matriculating to pton, their offer improved dramatically year after year, as I am sure your son’s package did year after year. Hard to say good-bye to that!! I hear you on that!</p>

<p>When son was looking to med schools he was looking for the same warm, financial hug! Good luck with that I told him. But surprise, he did manage to find that again. Right here in our own backyard.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>CapeCod - Did you say that your son could commute to his current school? If so that seems like a good solution to me, much better than transferring in my opinion.</p>