<p>Just wanted to add in here…not all of us can actually afford to get a liberal arts degree, then go back for a nursing degree if we decide med school isn’t right for us/we can’t get in. I have been considering getting my BSN, working for a few years to save up a bit of money, then applying to med school. </p>
<p>My older sister got a liberal arts degree, is working on a PhD, and is having trouble finding job prospects in her field…I would rather follow the plan I mentioned above^ than go through what she went through finding somewhere to go with her liberal arts degree, all the while trying to find money to pay for going back to school for nursing.</p>
<p>You’re wrong because you don’t know what you’re talking about. (i.e. have no experience/knowledge of medical school admissions) Med schools aren’t going to come right out and say “We like this major, but not that one” - med school admissions are quite subjective in many ways (and very much not so in others), which is why they are such a crapshoot. </p>
<p>Case in point…</p>
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<p>The bolded bit should have tempered the first bit, but instead you took the one data point that you knew and generalized to all other schools. If you want to be completely technically correct, “business school” usually refers to the graduate form (i.e. MBA, etc.) not the undergrad major, which typically does not require any special application (unless a particular school has such a requirement, which is not common).</p>
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<p>Where do you get “4” from? Thats one year each of those subjects (2-3 classes each depending on if you’re in a semester or quarter system), plus a separate lab course (if your school doesn’t build the lab into the main course). Not to mention the fact that you’re leaving out a year of mathematics and a year of english - granted, not required at all med schools, but you’re limiting your application pool if you don’t have them. That’s way more than 4 courses.</p>
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<p>No you can’t. And no you don’t.</p>
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<p>What are you trying to prove here? I was in EMS for several years before med school, and I am very strongly against states that let people become EMTs before the age of 18, much less paramedics at that age. No police department in the country will take you if you’re younger than 21, but somehow some states think it’s just fine to stick a 16 year old in an ambulance and tell him/her to have fun. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Well first I’m not 16, and not to be arrogant, but I’ve had multiple severe trauma calls and the paramedics loved me. Said I was the best EMT student they ever had and asked me if I could sign up with their ambulance for another clinical. I also have the highest grade in the course, and performed all of my skills flawlessly during skills day. I’m the only person in the program to not have to re-test. I’m also the only person who got straight A’s on the reports from the paramedic preceptors. So age isn’t always a factor of how good an EMT can be. </p>
<p>Next, AP Chemistry, AP Biology, AP Physics. There. 3/4 courses (considering one course is a year long). Calculus is only recommended but if you are good in math you would have taken calc in high school. English is a GER that most universities require. </p>
<p>Goizueta Business School. I have to apply my sophomore year for the BBA program–just like a nursing program. </p>
<p>Not everyone is rich and has money to waste. If you go 4 years in college, get a bachelors degree in bio, then don’t get into medical school–you are screwed. The OP has the right to major in whatever she wants and until medical schools include the “except nursing majors” clause, I don’t think being a nursing major is going to drastically decrease your chances of getting into medical school. Do you have statistics that prove your statement?</p>
<p>Yeah, everyone gets that. But the key is that med schools, for the most part, don’t care. Yes, they love non-traditionals, but your idea makes little economic sense if you really plan to attend med school.</p>
<p>1) Nursing school requirements will not meet med school requirements. (Sure, you can take the premed Chem and the premed Bio, but it will wreak havoc with your BSN schedule since no other BSN students will be doing the same.) </p>
<p>2) Think about the opportunity costs (AP Econ?) of the intervening years: you’d be making a nurses salary instead of a physician’s salary. </p>
<p>3) Your undergrad gpa is critical for med school, and adcoms tend to look askance at the gpa’s of vocational majors. (Doesn’t mean it is fair, but it is reality.)</p>
<p>Isimarie, since you mentioned BC, let me provide you with the Connell course list for Frosh:
1st Semester
Life Science Chem
Anatomy & Physiology for nurses
History
Eng/Writing
Nursing seminar</p>
<p>2nd Semester
Health Statistics
Anatomy & Physiology for nurses
History
Eng/Writing
Nursing Seminar</p>
<p>Of those 10 courses, only the Eng/Writing would fulfill a premed prereq, according to the Dean of BC’s premed advising program – and he is the one that signs BC’s Committee Letter (recommendation) for your med app.</p>
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<p>Some colleges yes, but most, no. But wrt Goizueta: ~auto acceptance if one has a B+ Frosh year, which is pretty much required for a premed anyway.</p>
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<p>Instead of an anonymous website, whose advice you don’t agree with, why not ask the premed advisors at Emory?</p>
<p>That speaks more to the quality of your program than you.</p>
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<p>Try again - you’re continuing to show your lack of knowledge. There’s nothing wrong with that, given your age and experience, but you shouldn’t be so confident about things you don’t know much about.
No university in the country is going to give you a full year of credit for those AP courses. AP courses pale in comparison to actual undergrad science courses. I dont’ think they should be given any credit, but what can you do? At UCLA, you might get out of one class in the 3 course year-long series (i.e. one quarter’s worth) - and thats if you got a 5 (and maybe a 4 also, can’t remember) on the exam.</p>
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<p>What do you mean it’s “only recommended”?? I can guarantee you with 200% certainly that there are many med schools that require (not recommend) a year of Calculus+Statistics. Same with English. I already said that this is not a universal requirement, but for you to assert that they are just “recommendations” is ridiculous. </p>
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<p>And again… not all of them! - stop generalizing from an n of 1.</p>
<p>Well at this point, I’m with bluebayou on this one - if you’re so convinced, go for it. Let us know how it goes.</p>
<p>Bio I
Bio II
Gen Chem I
Gen Chem II
OChem I
OChem II
Physics I
Physics II
Cal I</p>
<p>Those are usually the minimum pre-reqs.</p>
<p>*Just wanted to add in here…not all of us can actually afford to get a liberal arts degree, then go back for a nursing degree if we decide med school isn’t right for us/we can’t get in. I have been considering getting my BSN, working for a few years to save up a bit of money, then applying to med school.
*</p>
<p>Actually, once you have a BS degree, you can get your RN at a local CC. So, not that expensive.</p>
<p>And, like we’ve said, you’ll pretty much know by your 3rd - 4th semester if you have what it takes to get into med school.</p>
<p>*
Next, AP Chemistry, AP Biology, AP Physics. There*</p>
<p>If you use AP credits, you have to REPLACE them with higher up college credits in chem, bio, and physics…There!</p>
<p>My program is the best in the county. We have a 95% NREMT first attempt pass rate (according to the director) and the EMT’s who finish from my program are the best. Not only that but my instructor is a flight paramedic and has won many state awards. So I think my program is pretty decent…</p>
<p>In addition, I’d understand your statement if the average report from the preceptors wasn’t a D+ for students. The preceptors are known for being a<strong>holes and ruining grades. The only way you will get a C is if you are a good EMT. Again, I’m one, if not the only student who got A’s from my clinical rotations, which proves that I’ll make a decent EMT. If I was s</strong>*, I can promise you the paramedics wouldn’t give me a good score. Again, age isn’t everything. Me, who’s an apparently immature 17 year old “who shouldn’t be allowed on an ambulance”, will probably make the best EMT out of the entire class. Not trying to be arrogant, just saying. You can’t always judge someone by their age. That is one of my pet peeves. </p>
<p>Secondly, I know that you are required to take the actual courses and you can’t use AP credit unless you take upper levels for that course blah blah blah (but again, that is dependent on the medical school), but that’s not the point I’m trying to make. I stated that you can take 3/4 of the courses in high school to support my point that it’s really not that many courses and in reality, you can learn the knowledge of three of the 4 courses in high school. </p>
<p>Plain and simple, if the OP wants to get her BSN, she can get it. If she has to spend an extra year in college finishing up her premed courses, oh well. It’s still plausible, and obviously you aren’t going to change my opinion on the subject and I’m not going to change your opinion on the subject, so I guess we will just have our differences.</p>
<p>Also, my advisor at Emory told me to take calculus only if I felt comfortable with it. Emory School of Medicine is number one on my list, and I know for a fact that they don’t require calculus–because our advisors follow their recommendations. They also sent us a whole email explaining whether or not we should take calculus.</p>
<p>Ultimately, you have to decide whether to take calculus. If you’re interested in a medical school which requires or recommends calculus or a major which requires calculus, or if you simply like calculus, you should take it. If not, statistics is a good math class for a career in medicine.</p>
<p>Here is a 2007-2008 list from MSAR schools that require math, and there are many more that have added on since this list was compiled. </p>
<p>But I agree with the others. Let us know in 4 years or so how everything is going.</p>
<p>You might want to buy a MSAR, start looking at the schools, and revise your game plan. Oh, and don’t forget to think about biochem. More and more schools are either requiring or “reccommending” it. Isn’t your home state Texas? Texas med schools require an extra year of bio courses beyond the 1 year as well.</p>
<p>No, it is NOT dependent on the Med school. What IS a variable is IF they will let you use AP credit to replace intro level coursed and IF they will, what they require to make it happen. For example, Texas Med schools require that your transcript reflect the college course (by both number and description) that has been replaced by the AP class and also require at least one math class actually taken “IN COLLEGE” so no AP class will work for that and they also require an additional year of BIO.</p>
<p>Most HS AP classes are not even close to the equivalent college class so to state that you “can learn the knowledge of three of the 4 courses in high school.” is almost laughable. </p>
<p>You need to learn a little humility and you are making yourself look foolish with the pronouncements you are stating as facts.</p>
<p>The people offering you advice have either been through the Med school admission process and are getting ready to start classes this fall or are currently in the application process or like me, have a kid who is in already in Med school. </p>
<p>We’re trying to help you because you’re on the wrong track if you follow the path you are currently taking. Put aside the hubris and listen to what we’re offering.</p>
<p>Even if my AP credit statement was wrong, it still doesn’t ruin the main point I was trying to make. A nursing major/pre-med can’t possibly kill you. Even if you are applying to medical school or have a son/daughter in the process, unless you are an adcom, it’s not really an expert opinion.</p>
<p>Absolutely true, but then the question arises whose anonymous advice/opinion do you want to follow: experienced parents/current med students, or a 17-year-old high school student? :)</p>
<p>But for a real adcom’s advice, mosey on over to sdn – the topic has been covered numerous times, and real live adcoms say, ‘don’t do it.’</p>
<p>^Lol…I say let him sink and believe what he wants. Stubborn people need to learn the hard way, that is why I never elaborated on any of his multiple wrong statements.</p>
<p>My “stubbornness” has gotten me pretty far. I’ve done things and achieved goals based on my refusal to “play everything by the rules”. You wouldn’t be where you are now if it weren’t for “stubborn” people (Founding fathers, Rosa Parks, etc.). Just thought I should say that. Also, I’m not in high school. I start college in 5 days. </p>
<p>Also, just because you are applying to medical school doesn’t make you an expert. Just because I applied to undergrad doesn’t make me an expert in undergrad admissions. I can’t tell someone that taking AP Biology over AP Art History will help them get into a certain university because I’m not an admissions officer. Neither are any of you. All I can give is an opinion–which is solely my opinion and in no way a fact. So stop acting like your opinions are solid fact, especially if you have no statistical evidence. </p>
<p>Also, I give up. I’m not going to make anymore arguments, but I don’t believe your opinion, and you don’t believe my opinion. It’s a worthless debate because I’m too “stubborn” for you to change my opinion.</p>
<p>FACTS is the name of the AAMC’s website for med school admissions information.</p>
<p>Table 18: MCAT and GPAs for applicants and matriculants to US medical schools by primary undergraduate major, 2010 might be worthwhile to check out. </p>
<p>Briefly, 1181 “specialized health sciences” (that would be nursing) majors applied, and 406 matriculated (34%). Compare that to bio majors (22,327 applied and 9,559 were accepted=43%) or humanities majors (991/1950=51%) or math majors (183/386=47%) or physics majors (2201/4672=47%) and you can see that “specialized health sciences majors” fare the poorest in the admissions game, and are actually the only category of majors well below the total (18665/42742=43%).</p>
<p>(This might be off topic, but why study nursing if you want to go to med school? Nurses aren’t doctors. Similarly, why become a paramedic if you want to go to med school? Paramedics aren’t doctors. Then again, I’m sure those careers are quite fulfilling and aren’t only meant to be a stepping stone to medical school.)</p>
<p>Most who enter College considering medicine are not successful. It is hard to know the statistics because many do not declare their interest. My friends and I guess that 60% to 90% dont make it due to change of interest, failure to thrive, or rejection. The study of Nursing as an undergraduate will reduce your chances of medical school admission for the reasons outlined above. Working after a BSN than going back to pre med will help in applying to medical school but it is not the best financial planning as you are trading attending pay in the future for early nursing income. Nurses even after working for a while still face tougher odds for medical school compared to traditional applicants.
There is no free lunch here. If you get accepted into nursing school and graduate as a nurse you have a good future with good pay and high chance of job security but lessen your chances for medical school admission. A liberal arts degree increases your chance for medicine but if you fail you will have to go back to school for a RN/BSN.
Doing an EMT is somewhat helpful in applying to medical school in a much as it exposes you to a part of the medical system but it does nothing to promote your academic credentials.
The use of AP courses to skip required courses has some good points and bad points. AP courses are not taught to the same level as good college courses. Skipping your college medical school pre reqs may leave you less prepared for the MCATs. Some medical schools do not accept AP credit. Other schools will only accept AP credit if you take upper division courses. Upper division courses are populated with students who have just taken a year or more of work in that subject and may be better prepared than you. Skipping one term of intro biology on the other hand may be helpful by allowing you to skip something like botany and take courses such as genetics, physiology, biochemistry, cellular biology etc. that would be more helpful to you. Now you may be a great talent in which case you could certainly skip many pre reqs and excel in upper division courses. The problem is that one really does not know how good of a student you will be in College until you get there. The safe play would be to use your AP work in HS to insure that you do well in College.
Courses such as Calculus, Statistics, Biochemistry and English are helpful to your application and required by many medical schools. Obviously if you do not do well in any of these classes it will hurt your application but this opinion also extends to any other course you take. When a medical school states that they recommend something it means that if you do well in those courses it will help your application.
The general rule is that the easiest and cheapest way into medicine is through the public medical schools in your own state. There are obviously exceptions to this rule but you need to pay particular attention to the medical schools in your home state when you plan your undergraduate course.
There are many paths one can take to enter medicine but the traditional path or close to it is the easiest of a difficult road.</p>