<p>Nice post, antalias! IIT grads I have run into are all brilliant. </p>
<p>PS: antialias - interesting user name! Related to Nyquist or Shannon by any chance? :)</p>
<p>IIT is a good university but the problem it faces or rather has caused is that it creates engineers not potential thinkers. The entrance exam may be top of the world ( I am preparing for it) but then again there is less logic behind the education an more cramming. I was interested in US education last year and once I explored the opportunites available in aome foreign countries including Singapore, I was spellbound. The fees which is almost 50-150 times of IIT is not for nothing. World class labs, interactive facilites, tons of sports and clubs. Basically it is an all round development. In Indian education system , the top spot is mainatined for the people who only study. Creativity, sports and most EC are sadly looked down. Of course you may give me one name to contradict my point by hey… I will give you hundered names to support my view. </p>
<p>Also American students come first in confidence in the world. Look it up. If you ever got an opportunity to meet an alumunus or alumini of a US university you can see that they have an air of confidence about them. I have been interviewed by 4 prestigious Ivy colleges so far and could nt help noticing how free and confident each alumunus looked. Some o then who I am sure very very shy compared to you and me. Participating in events, living independantly, conducting ones own research and the various opportunites all make the students proactive and determined in life. This point besides educarion is a very significant part of life because I believe that id a person does not have the balls to go for things he will never rise higher than his limits.</p>
<p>And coming back to education, during my Columbia interview I asked my interviewer that Indian students have already done extensive amount of integration in their school life and does that make us superior to the US students. He replied, telling me that only the first year of college is easy where they take up basic calculus and they take up a lot of time teaching it to the students because it is critical in engineering. He said that he being a science student himself he first learned the true meaning of calculus in his college year. Throughout school and for JEE( IIT entrance exam) he and I say for me also calculus had been use of a formula to twist a math expression in a way I did not understand. Well long story cut short. Indian education only sees how well you can cope up with extensive studies. That is why the only entrance exam is based on your perfomance in theory subjects with no focus on reccos, EC, sports, critical thinking, speaking skills and as I said earlier one exception doesnt prove your case right. People argue that one guy two years ago got a job at Google. Dude, Google is a multi billion dollar global company. 1000 are getting there everyday. And as for Murthy’s son he may have got int Cornell but I know many of my friends and peers who are writing JEE but holding their breath to get a call from MIT, Harvard, Princeton and many more which have a much fewer international ratio than cornell.</p>
<p>I hope I did not offend anyone and I am not belitting India but the fact remains that due to reasons like poverty India has been left behind in the field of education. There is no use of rattling an empty bottle. I have seen both sides of the coin and so I speak but if anyone has objections please comment.</p>
<p>Just read my comment and it seems like a hate speech. Lol. I really didnt mean to be so harsh about IIT it is just that my last one year cramming really got to me and I hated it. Though I still stand to my point I would liketo point that IIT also has a major international standing and is one of the finest in the world.</p>
<p>@optimisticer a big but good post :p…your going to which university?</p>
<p>There is no point arguing…Study fr both and go to the one you like most:)</p>
<p>Where are people in India getting money to go to Cornell? Apart from those 4-5 seats Tatas are paying for, there is not a lot of money at Cornell for students from India.</p>
<p>I know kids who went to Cornell and currently attend them. I really would not say that if I picked top 100 AIRs and top 100 Cornell kids, they can be considered peers. May be there is a percentage of Cornell kids who are as good as top 100 AIRs but not a large percentage.</p>
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There are several Indians (other than Narayan Murthy) who could afford sticker at Cornell. Also isn’t Cornell need blind (but not full need). Is their FA that bad?</p>
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I dare say I know as many AIR 100s (From my IIT coaching center batch we had 8 AIR top 100s, all of whom I know very well), and while they may be a step above the average Cornell kid in terms of academics, the average Cornell kid would excel in most other fields. Now the average MIT kid, he would be a whole different story…</p>
<p>“and while they may be a step above the average Cornell kid in terms of academics, the average Cornell kid would excel in most other fields”</p>
<p>Having lived in US for 25 years and watching which kids get into Cornell from various high schools, I have to say you have no idea about how one gets into Cornell. There might be good to great ones coming out of India and China but not US. There are areas of Cornell which do not require great academic achievement. Even engineering, not everyone is great, some are.</p>
<p>International FA is not all that good unlike some of the other top Ivies.</p>
<p>Having lived in the US and in India (although for considerably less time) and having met hundreds of IITians, I can honestly tell you that IITians who have any ECs to speak of are few and far between and I’m sure Indian CC’rs could back me up on this. The average (non-top 100) IITian would have almost nothing to put on a resume other than his grades and JEE rank. As a matter of fact, many IITians don’t even have good grades (grades are not considered after you cross the threshold of being in the top 20% or so).</p>
<p>"ECs to speak of are few "</p>
<p>Who cares about ECs when we are discussing academic merits. I am suggesting that the academic stalwarts in US do not end up in Cornell compared to the IITs and India.</p>
<p>One more crucial point: reservation. Quality of an institution certainly takes a fatal hammering when 50% of the seats are given on the basis of family in which one is born.
I believe the students around are as important, if not more than the teachers. Right from your extensive IIT coaching to your 4 years at IIT, you’ll almost be with same guys. (didn’t use a unisexual reference because of the overbearing population of males). The guys who know every formula by rote. The guys who know value of every damn variable till its 32nd power. The guys who haven’t lived outside solving integrations and differentiation sums. You get the idea right ? Now I’m not at all stereotyping the whole iit breed. There maybe a few exceptions. But they are exceptions. And students aren’t at all fault here. They have been brought up in then same way. There’s a problem in our system and in people’s mindset.
In a NUS or MIT you might have a Chinese stock market player, an afghnaistani international Olympiad Rockstar, a Korean entrepreneur and an african best seller novelist. IITians may be spending days writing huge bulky thesis and theories on How to make a robot, meanwhile the MITian makes a flame throwing robot and fights it with rival magnetic flux Eddie currents inducing robots.</p>
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<p>Do you have any evidence for this? I know people at Cornell who could equal (if not exceed) the abilities of a top IIT student at solving problems in physics, chemistry, and mathematics (and I know a fair number of such people too).</p>
<p>@mapletree7
It clearly is meant to be anecdotal. And since it’s texaspg, a prolific member on CC, I would take it on faith.
And as much as I dislike IIT today, logically your statement is false, purely due to selection criteria. In cornell, many other factors come into play, that could save a sub-par problem solver, while at IIT, one’s admission is predicated exclusively on one’s problem solving capabilities (or at least problem memorizing capabilities). Once again, red herrings and black swans do not make arguments.</p>
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<p>I agree. But you forget that the top 100 AIR of IIT is the top 100 of 5 lakh or so in India. Cornell, on the other hand, is not even completely an engineering college. So no, I will tell you right off the bat that there are about 30-40 Cornell Engineers that are on par with the top 100 AIR IIT students. And yes, at MIT and Harvard this number is much much higher.</p>
<p>However, what I’m saying is that Cornell has the potential to transform a 80 student into a 95 student whereas IIT can only transform a 90 student into an 95 student. If this ‘90’ student from IIT chooses to go to Cornell, he will most likely become a 100 student and a complete boss. </p>
<p>Barring all personal development, global exposure, and living an infrastructurally better life with tons more freedom to explore and do what you love and meet great people, every top 10 US Engineering college guarantees a steeper learning curve in college. This is the only point I’m trying to make. </p>
<p>Warning: Rant below
Keeping this issue aside, something optimisticer said really struck a chord. I’m not generalizing, but a large proportion of IIT students have little social skills - stuff that matters in the real world. Yes, universities here have there fair share of geeks who aren’t all the socially adept, but on average they do a lot better than IITians. It’s things like these which I feel pro-IITians don’t understand. I have never met an IIT ranker in the US who has regretted not going to IIT but I’ve met many IITians who would have if they had the chance to.
My time at college has been immortalized by the sheer variety of people I’ve met and cultures I’ve experienced. I know most of you are reading this and thinking kya bakwaas bol rha hai. A few years ago, I’d have thought the same thing. Hear me out. My quality of life has improved so much here. My friends at the IIT continually give me stories of outrageous competition and mugging, but my life here is only partially based on grades. I saw a ‘Gangnam Style’ flashmob and was part of our college’s ‘Harlem Shake’ and it was incredible. I met Eric Schmidt and shook hands with Ratan Tata. I saw Bob Dylan perform and had Bob Marley’s Wailers play a few feet in front of me. I could get into any dorm I want whenever I wanted and let any person of any gender into my dorm whenever I wanted. Sleep when I want and go to classes if I want.
I don’t know about you, but assuming IIT was marginally better than my college by a little academically, I would still choose this. Academics make a job and some money, experiences make a life.</p>
<p>The concluding sentence is amazzzzing. :D</p>
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<p>Classy and cultured. :)</p>
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<p>Wow, what a profound statement! </p>
<p>I feel sorry for IITians. They never get to learn realities of life … Very sad, indeed. :(((</p>
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Haha, I don’t know if you’re being sarcastic but it was awesome.
[Cornell</a> University: Flash Mob - Gangnam Style - YouTube](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWetGqX9uFc]Cornell”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWetGqX9uFc)</p>
<p>"Do you have any evidence for this? I know people at Cornell who could equal (if not exceed) the abilities of a top IIT student at solving problems in physics, chemistry, and mathematics (and I know a fair number of such people too). "</p>
<p>I know kids who went to Cornell over the past 5-8 years from local high schools. If they could have gotten into Stanford/MIT/Harvard/Princeton/Caltech/… they would have gone there instead. Kids from the same schools who got into the other schools I listed chose it ahead of Cornell. We are not discussing ability to do things once they get to Cornell but being at the top of their classes from the high schools they went to. Being at the top of their highschool and choosing Cornell as their top destination is the attribute we are comparing.</p>
<p>“I’m not generalizing, but a large proportion of IIT students have little social skills - stuff that matters in the real world.”</p>
<p>Quite possible unless they have lived in cities before getting there.</p>
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<p>I did not say that every single Cornell student is comparable to the top hundred or so people at IIT, merely that there are quite a few students at Cornell who are just as good (or even better) than these people. The difficulty of the IIT exam is extremely overrated - and the average math/science oriented Cornell student takes exams that are a lot harder (example: AIME).</p>
<p>After joining CC and reading a few older posts, I have came to a realisation that IITs are seriously overrated here.People preaparing for IITs seldom have any time to develop their ECs or pursue their passion.Eventhough,IITs are the best in India, Globally its value is diminishing.I am myself preparing for IITs but the avenues and Opportunities in universities there, have inclined me towards USA.
The real problem in going to USA is getting into a top university with a good Aid! Otherwise, IITs do lack behind the US universities</p>
<p>What are your views on BITS?Is it on par with IIT or some other US Univ?</p>