NY Times Article 09-09-14- Most economically diverse top colleges

<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/09/upshot/top-colleges-that-enroll-rich-middle-class-and-poor.html?abt=0002&abg=1"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/09/upshot/top-colleges-that-enroll-rich-middle-class-and-poor.html?abt=0002&abg=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I’d be very interested in seeing the distribution of SAT scores among Pell recipients. I’ve never been convinced that the most selective schools could wave a wand and get all the low-income but highly qualified students they’d like to have. Obviously, some get more than others, but what do they have to do to get them?</p>

<p>$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$</p>

<p>It is (surprisingly) a pretty good article, although unless I missed it they made no reference to the seminal work Rose and Carnevale on this issue. It is not surprising that the work done by Schapiro and Hill has made waves in the colleges. Neither is it suprising that Amherst is showing the results of having had someone such as Marx at the helm. </p>

<p>Fwiw, the strict focus on Pell grantees can be misleading if one focuses on the absolute numbers. A school could “hire” a fair share of Pell grantees but keep a high net cost and saddle students with ungodly amounts of debt. This article also restricted the data to schools that have a HIGH graduation rate. This is important as others have fallen in the trap to recognize schools that are “socially mobile” but remain mediocre and accomplish very little in giving marketable skills to its graduates. Not to mention hampering students who never graduate with debt! Are you listening, Forbes and Washington Monthly? </p>

<p>All in all, it might better to restrict financial resources to FEWER Pell grantees but keeping the cost an entire education very low than getting a bunch to start and fail along the way. </p>

<p>“I’d be very interested in seeing the distribution of SAT scores among Pell recipients. I’ve never been convinced that the most selective schools could wave a wand and get all the low-income but highly qualified students they’d like to have. Obviously, some get more than others, but what do they have to do to get them?”</p>

<p>Low-income covers a lot of ground. It covers students who live in racially segregated ghettos in highly urban areas, it covers Hispanic / Latino immigrants whose parents are picking produce, it covers students living barefoot in Appalachia, etc. It would be interesting to me to know if certain colleges tend to appeal more or less to these types of students (e.g., Columbia, Penn or Chicago could do a better job of appealing to low-income African Americans who already live in a city compared to Dartmouth or Princeton). It’s also of note that no matter how generous a given college is, there are transportation issues – for example,no matter how generous Grinnell is with aid, the fact still remains it’s a four hour drive from Chicago, which is no burden to little-suburban-me but would be quite a burden for a kid coming from Compton. </p>

<p>Grinnell partners with the Posse Foundation - I believe travel expense is somehow factored into that equation. Interestingly, Grinnell has moved away from recruiting in the LA area - too competitive - they are now recruiting low income students from NO - and received some flak for doing so from current Posse scholars. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.thesandb.com/news/grinnell-drops-l-a-posse-adds-new-orleans.html”>http://www.thesandb.com/news/grinnell-drops-l-a-posse-adds-new-orleans.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Here’s a link to the Hoxby study that is linked to within the articles. It has some interesting data. Haven’t had time to look through it yet, though. The study appears to use 1300 SAT as the hurdle for high achieving. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Projects/BPEA/Spring%202013/2013a_hoxby.pdf”>http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Projects/BPEA/Spring%202013/2013a_hoxby.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>These days, the outreach is such that the disadvantaged kids in big urban centers pretty don’t fall through the cracks. There was a study where the authors made the assertion that there are pretty much no bright highly-qualified URM in the Bronx these days who fall through the cracks (don’t know about elite colleges or don’t know about generous aid at elite colleges or don’t know about opportunities at elite colleges or don’t know how to apply to elite colleges). </p>

<p>There are however, still plenty of poor kids growing up in rural MS or WV or even mid-sized cities that representatives from the elites don’t often visit who are in that situation.</p>

<p>Yes, and some of those kids are leary about even going to their state flagships because they are intimidated by the big institutional environment and the prospect of leaving where they grew up. Its not easy to get those kids on the Ivy or other similar wavelength. </p>

<p>I found it interesting the Harvard got props for raising the level of income for which students will get a full ride, but no mention of also raising the bar for high income families so more qualify for aid, thus enticing students from wealthy families… </p>

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<p>That requirement eliminated almost every public university (except UNC-CH, at 21% Pell; $7,600). Several of which would have a far higher “Collage Access Index” than these schools. I guess having UCLA (31% Pell;$9500) or UF (29%, $8500) or several other public universities sitting on top of the list, just wouldn’t fit story.</p>

<p>At least this is one list Northeastern can’t climb (thank you Co-ops!!). :)</p>

<p>Georgetown endowment per student is only 80K?</p>

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<p>Perhaps you ought to wonder why the list of included schools is quite large albeit not filled with highly selective schools and why the public schools shine with their absence, including the prestigious ones. </p>

<p>Wouldn’t it be more important to look at the graduation rate among Pell Grant recipients?</p>

<p>“Yet for many low-income children – even many who get A’s in high school and do well on the SAT – college remains out of reach.”

  • I do not understand this statement at all. Why “free” tuition UG is out of reach? And it maybe even full ride. And they also work (all UGs work). What is out of reach when a kid has As and decent score? There are plenty UGs out there who will be glad to offer huge Merits to such a kid. It is a big LIE, but what else to expect from the media anymore?</p>

<p>“Carrington did not anticipate the culture shock he felt outside the classroom, the trouble he had fitting in. After spending his life in communities and in schools filled with African Americans and children from low-income families, he’s now part of a tiny minority across town, where he feels out of place.”</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/traversing-two-dcs-from-dunbar-high-to-georgetown-university/2014/07/27/1409875a-1376-11e4-9285-4243a40ddc97_story.html”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/traversing-two-dcs-from-dunbar-high-to-georgetown-university/2014/07/27/1409875a-1376-11e4-9285-4243a40ddc97_story.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The article discusses the difficulties students face in simply navigating the culture shock of moving 4 miles from a very low SES area to a private university. </p>

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<p>Because if the free tuition school is out of commuting distance, room, board, books, fees and travel could very well be more than the family can afford.</p>

<p>Miami at Oxford, for example, has a full tuition scholarship for good students with financial need but they use that kid’s Pell and state grants to make up the full tuition, leaving the entire room/board/books cost to the family. Even with max Stafford loans and a $2K work-study job, that leaves something like $6,000 a year for the family to cover. </p>

<p>And many parents also count on at least part time income from their kids to help pay bills.</p>

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<p>Precisely. This abundance of undiscovered low-means A-grade students with high SAT scores is complete fabrication. Truth is a very very very tiny % of low-means students know how to “do” elite college. But I suppose another article about subpar public schools and God forbid single-parent household rates in low income areas wasn’t as sexy as characterizing our nation’s elite colleges as anti-poor.</p>

<p>Someone mentioned the Posse Program that Grinnell and some other colleges participate in, to help first generation college students get through the new experiences/environments and succeed. I saw it help one of my son’s best friends at Grinnell, and my son also gained a lot by being drawn into the Posse program by his friend/roommate. This friend had moved to rural Iowa from Los Angeles (talk about culture shock!), so this can be done.</p>