<p>@Gator88NE makes a good point.</p>
<p>@Hanna, as we have pointed out, there many reasons why 4Y graduation rates differ, and most of them have more to do with the student than the school.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl,what I meant is that even though somebody lives in an affluent area, kids are encouraged to go to their local state u’s…the UGA diploma will go farther in this area than my D’s NE private LAC. I was just saying that just because somebody has the internet access to learn about CC type schools, it doesn’t mean that they are ignorant because they want to go to UGA, UA or Auburn…I was responding to Isabella who seems to think that if you have a computer and don’t apply to elites there is something wrong with you and are oblivious for not aiming “higher”. I agree with you, I just don’t always come across with what I mean.</p>
<p>UW has studied time to graduation quite a bit and found that taking under 15 credits/term, changing majors and “stopping out” (taking a semester or more off) were the prime reasons for those not doing co-ops and such which automatically extend grad times by 1 or 2 semesters.</p>
<p><a href=“https://apir.wisc.edu/timetodegree/TTD2006Sept_Cover_plus_Study.pdf”>https://apir.wisc.edu/timetodegree/TTD2006Sept_Cover_plus_Study.pdf</a></p>
<p>One of the few recent Harvard grads I know was “taken from the sticks”, did great at Harvard and is now in med school at another elite U.</p>
<p>She’s also a really nice person.</p>
<p>Isabella, why do you think that somebody who doesn’t seek out elite schools is falling through the cracks? Hogwash.</p>
<p>@isabella314:</p>
<p>OK, now I have to say that you’re full of yourself. You do need a solid educational foundation (or an absolutely brilliant mind or ferociously hard work) to succeed at an elite college, but you don’t need prep school, summer camps, and the experiences of the rich in order to keep up. That’s just so laughably conceited. A ton of kids from my (mostly middle-class or lower) public (albeit magnet) HS have gone to elite colleges and succeeded. Some of them spectacularly so. As in, they’ve probably made more money already than your family will in your lifetime.</p>
<p>Man, wish I had been an “elite student”, they sound awesome. :)</p>
<p>It’s a shame schools like Vassar are targeting low SES students. Don’t they know these students would be doomed at a Ivy-level School? That 34 ACT score doesn’t make up for the lack of attending a Prep School.</p>
<p>WVU claims (via 2013-2014 CDS) that 7.6% of those submitting ACT scores (3,058) scored between 30 to 36. That comes out at about 232 students. </p>
<p>While I"m at it, lets do SAT scores! Of the 2,837 that submitted SAT scores, 2% (57) had a 700+ in CR and 3%(85 or so) in Math. </p>
<p>LOL, @Isabella314, that condescension is precious. Yes, my friends and I all made it, somehow, despite not being fabulously rich. In fact, given what my parents were making, I’m not even sure how I ever became literate. Frankly, everytime I go to the restroom, I reflect and become amazed that I was ever potty-trained.</p>
<p>Gator88NE, I think I missed something. Are you being sarcastic about the low SES students being ‘doomed’? b/c at least at Vassar, they are doing very well thank you. </p>
<p>^^^ er…yes it was a (weak) effort at sarcasm. It was in response to post #45. Vassar(which has been in the news lately due to it’s low SES outreach) was picked for that very reason.</p>
<p>You’re not as sophisticated as you think, Isabella, if you think that the only people who succeed at Ivies are those from very high SES backgrounds and prep schools. </p>
<p>I went to an elite school with a young man who is now quite highly placed in the State Dept, has reported directly to several Secs of State and trust me, makes a real difference in foreign relations. I saw his wedding announcement in the NYTimes. He was from Back of the Yards (very tough neighborhood in Chicago) and his father was a high school janitor. </p>
<p>I’m not sure what you mean by “polish”. Yes, my HS was academically enriching, but it’s not as if they taught me to floss and how to tie a tie (and no summer camps or what not).</p>
<p>Also, that student from Nowhere Podunk High who excels academically isn’t a hypothetical. I have a friend who went to UW-Madison, and in calc class, he’d see some kid with a full beard dressed like a bum from the backwoods of northern Wisconsin come in and ace a test that the rest of the students struggle with with seemingly no effort. Meanwhile, he’d see a bunch of East Coast kids who went to expensive prep schools party it up in Madtown and promptly flunk out*. That’s when he came to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter where you go to HS.</p>
<p>*Granted, there is some selection bias here. The kids in prep school who actually work hard on academics wouldn’t end up at UW-Madison, while a high percentage of the creme de la creme of northern WI HS grads would list UW-Madison as their dream school. But that’s my point: those kids are out there and they may not have any elite private as their top target.</p>
<p>BTW, @Isabellas314, have you ever worked a day of your life? I’m curious because you seem to put a lot of emphasis on polish. In the real world, I’ve observed that scrappiness, smarts, hard work, and perspective tends to get you further.</p>
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<p>I wonder if she meant posh rather than polish. The latter sounds like an occasional chore I perform whenever I need to ready my dress shoes for formal occasions like weddings, funerals, or the like. </p>
<p>This public magnet HS & respectable college graduate also love Polish cuisine whether they’re pierogies or various grades of sausages…like kielbasas <em>drool</em>. 
:D</p>
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<p>It’s pretty easy to infer that Pell grant recipients might need to work due to lack of money, given how low the ceiling is for Pell grant recipients. People who need to work while in school will generally take less units, depending on how much they’re working. And so, naturally, these people will take longer to graduate. So it’s not very surprising that schools with high percentages of Pell grant recipients have lower 4-year graduation rates. Some STEM majors, like engineering, will likely lower 4-year graduation rates as well.</p>
<p>FWIW, the people I met in undergrad were all over the place. I knew several people who graduated (or could have graduated) in less than four years. I graduated in five years with three years at CC and two years at UCLA; some of my friends did two years at CC and three years at UCLA. For almost all of them it was voluntary. They could have graduated early but decided to stay longer. It really just depended on people’s individual situations.</p>
<p>Ultimately, I think the 75% 4-year graduation rate criteria is a joke. I’m not sure how, in a ranking of ‘most economically diverse top schools’ you can include criteria which excludes the [the</a> most economically diverse elite school](<a href=“http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity-among-top-ranked-schools]the”>http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity-among-top-ranked-schools) in the nation.</p>
<p>When you look at kids who are leaders on campus (running various organizations and the like), I observe very little correlation between SES and campus leadership. Isabella, do you or have you actually spent time at elite campuses? You seem to have a very Thurston Howell view of the social dynamics. </p>
<p>You are such a ■■■■■ Isabella and an annoying one at that.</p>
<p>@Isabella314:</p>
<p>Again, have you worked a day in your life? Polish is nice, but in my experience, it pales against getting results. The real world isn’t finishing school. Even in college, grades in almost any class have little to do with polish. Actually, it’s even less important in college.</p>
<p>Plus which, you seem to think that simply growing up poor would preclude someone from having soft skills, which simply doesn’t jibe with the reality that I’m familiar with. My best friend from college is URM from a lower-middle-class household. He’s also one of the most personable people I know and now solidly upper-middle-class. One of the most promising young entrepreneurs from my school is URM from the South Side of Chicago. He became a campus leader, started a business while in school, was the first undergrad there to land an internship in a prestigious industry, and certainly presents well. A co-worker of mine who worked on Wall Street had a protege who grew up immigrant, poor, and was in a street gang before he shaped up and got in to an elite college. As a senior in college, banks fought to recruit him, as he had “it”. He’s street-smart and they knew that he would be successful on the trading floor. As it turns out, they we’re right, as he’s now an MD heading a sales group at a BB.</p>
<p>I can go on, but you get the point. All I can say is that I just don’t see someone so sheltered as you in the real world.</p>
<p>I think I posted this on the other thread, so sorry. So, Isabella - Wash U '89. Are you Burroughs or Mary I by any chance?</p>
<p>“You can’t simply take any 17-year-old kid from Georgia with a 34 ACT score and put him or her in Cambridge and expect them to flourish. They haven’t been built for it, literally.”</p>
<p>You might not realize this, but suburban Atlanta has wealthy areas that are pretty much indistinguishable from suburban NYC, Boston, etc. I mean, c’mon - you went to school in St. Louis, you should know this. </p>