<p>This article in the Times discusses the rise in tuition at state-supported universities. In many cases, with fin aid/scholarship private colleges cost about the same as public.</p>
<p>It seems that the public is being priced out of even public universities. What will it take to make higher ed affordable and not be the financial burden it has become?</p>
<p>Thanks, Upstatemom, for posting this link to that article. More bad news, eh?</p>
<p>It gets more depressing all the time. I have several friends with much younger children than my D and I am so scared for them. I do not know how they will even be able to afford our state schools! </p>
<p>My D refused to apply to any state u. But, we have found that at least at the two privates she has been admitted to so far, with merit and fin aid, the costs are very close to the public price. We are lucky in that she has gotten good merit aid, but a lot of people are not that lucky.</p>
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<p>I think it will take legislator’s who wake up and realize the huge impact that their public research U’s can have on creating economic opportunities in their regions/state. Unfortunately, they’re often too shortsighted and can’t think beyond the current year! The SC legislature appear to fall in that category…unfortunately, so does NY. </p>
<p>NYS came very close to giving the SUNY schools a higher degree of autonomy in setting tuition rates and approving a plan that would allow them to implement new public-private partnerships last summer but, ultimately, could not get past the idea of schools raising tuition much beyond the current $5K mark, despite strong support for this plan from student groups. Imo, this was very short-sighted as the research and technology these schools develop and license hold a great deal of untapped potential and solid plans were set forth that would both increase revenue to the schools, thereby making them less dependent on state aid, and spur the state’s economy. As things are, with the publics starved for cash and given no way to meet their own needs, let alone grow, it keeps all of us hostage to the current fiscal crisis and sooner or later the students will suffer the consequences anyway.</p>
<p>For many of us whose kids are unlikely to get merit money beyond a token amount and who do not qualify for any aid other than loans, state schools are still the best deal going. In our case, the cheapest option would definitely commuting to a state school. Living at a state school brings up the cost more than 4 fold. Still cheaper than the high $30Ks in tuition alone that the local privates charge. Going to one of the less expensive OOS publics is another way to save money and in our case the ones S4 has in mind will still cost less than the local privates that he has on his list even if he commutes to those locals. These are the only way we can get some breaks since aid is highly unlikely in his case.</p>
<p><strong><em>For many of us whose kids are unlikely to get merit money beyond a token amount and who do not qualify for any aid other than loans, state schools are still the best deal going.</em></strong></p>
<p>This is so true. For many families, unless the child can get merit aid, privates are not less expensive (or even close to the cost of) state schools because they don’t qualify for need based aid. Sadly, our state flagship (UIUC) is one of the more expensive ones, even in-state. Tuition and required fees alone for a business or engineering major who started this school year are over $18,000, and I’m sure it’s not going down for students entering in future years. There are actually other state flagships where the OOS tuition is less than our in-state tuition. But it’s still less expensive than privates if you don’t qualify for aid.</p>
<p>*This article in the Times discusses the rise in tuition at state-supported universities. In many cases, with fin aid/scholarship private colleges cost about the same as public.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>I think this may be true for those kids who have the stats to get into the privates that have good aid/merit to give. However, for the kids who have just modest stats, they probably can’t get into the schools or get the great aid/merit to reduce privates’ cost down to a local public. </p>
<p>the cost of attending a local public will often be the cheapest option for many kids. There will be exceptions, but for the majority of kids the local state school will be the lowest overall cost.</p>
<p>^^ I agree. For most kids the publics are still the most affordable - but they are still unaffordable for many unless the kids are able to commute (not always easy, not the vision of college they grew up with and not conducive to maximizing college achievement either). We seem to be reaching that “come to Jesus” moment in higher education, it’s not just about the future of your kid or your neighbor’s - it’s the future of the country.</p>
<p>*For most kids the publics are still the most affordable - but they are still unaffordable for many unless the kids are able to commute (not always easy, not the vision of college they grew up with and not conducive to maximizing college achievement either). *</p>
<p>While I totally “get” the idea that there are many benefits to “going away” to college, I do believe that most people can reach their career goals without that experience. When I was going to college in the 70’s, mostly everyone commuted to their local state school…which is the reason why state schools tend to be spotted throughout a state…perhaps one or more in every county. </p>
<p>The idea that people/students should take on large amounts of debt just to have the “sleep away” experience is really just not a good idea for many college kids who won’t be earning much when they graduate. Very few careers demand that students go to pricy schools. </p>
<p>And, certainly, it’s not reasonable to expect tax-payers to fund the “sleep away” experience. If a well-endowed college wants to do so, then that’s great. But, to expect tax-payers to pay is nutty especially when many are having a hard time paying for their own rent/food. </p>
<p>Each state should have the main goal of keeping local state schools’ tuition affordable so that a student loan can cover the costs. Other costs can be covered with a part-time job and a summer job.</p>
<p>I think we need to go back to the idea that it’s ok to commute to a local state school. Going away to college should not be seen as a “right”.</p>
<p>I think there are a number of issues with NYS. A lot of it may be perception, but that still can create a lack of trust. </p>
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<li><p>Lack of trust between upstate and downstate. Some in downstate think that more students come from downstate and upstate thinks downstaters are all rich, can afford more tuition and that the upstaters look on the SUNYs as employers first, educators second. Kinda like the upstaters demand upstate prisons be kept open, even while downstate prisons get closed. Most prisoners come from downstate, and it is harder fro them to visit their families. </p></li>
<li><p>Lack of transperncy – the SUNYs wont disclose by school in-state v. OOS GPAs/SATs. I realize its not all about SATs, etc, but the lack of disclosure does not endear the SUNYs to many.</p></li>
<li><p>Concern that increased tuition may price out some kids, and encourage too much debt. Vast differences in COLA makes many in downstate distrustful of the mantra, well kids who have need will get aid. People downstate see middle class people upstate getting TAP awards that downstaters wont see. </p></li>
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<p>In short, many applaud Sheldon Silver for his concern for kids.</p>
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<p>kay, I’m not sure I’m following you…the TAP eligibility cut off is the same for all NY’ers, isn’t it? Or are you saying that more people upstate would have taxable income under $80K? Is there some data supporting this perception that the TAP budget is spent mostly on upstate students? I have never seen that and would be interested, if you can provide a link, since it’s a common perception up here in “college central” that most of the low-income students are coming from downstate! </p>
<p>As regards the prisons, I think there’s more a sense of resignation among the upstate residents. Although they have provided some jobs, they don’t seem to be the types of jobs that most people are keen on performing and they certainly don’t provide economic growth for the region in the way that developing other resources/industries would. They were definitely not welcomed when the state began placing them near upstate communities! To this day, residents generally don’t like having the relatives of convicts moving to their small towns and cities in order to be close to their loved ones and think that’s the reason that crime has increased (in fairness, there seems to be some basis for that as newspapers often report the perps of serious crimes are from NYC). It has also caused local taxes to increase due to the massive costs of providing the relatives with public benefits such as Medicaid. Unfortunately, the relatives that are actually good, stable, and employable people are not the ones that are usually making the move. I do feel badly for the relatives that have to travel so far for visits, but not for the inmates themselves. As they say, “if you can’t do the time…”!</p>
<p>I share in the common concern over pricing kids out and agree that the usual upstate/downstate wrangling has been, and will probably always be, a key reason why the SUNYs have been perceived as less than what they really are and generally take a backseat in the budget process. But starving them for revenue and continuing the ridiculous and needlessly wasteful amount of state regulation that they’ve been subjected to (remember, for many years they were not even allowed to solicit donations!) is certainly not the answer. Since the actual SUNY student associations, along with many SUNY parents, have petitioned for predictable increases for several years now, instead of the large, unexpected ones that the legislature typically throw out at the last minute, I think Mr. Silver’s concern may be a bit misplaced. </p>
<p>Those with low incomes were getting their entire tuition paid for via TAP, before the legislature was forced to cut it by $75 this year, and, IIRC, the plan called for a guarantee that those who were receiving aid would receive offsetting grants to keep their net tuition costs at current levels. Had the legislature not sucked most of the last tuition increase into the general fund, or if they agreed to give SUNY more of the tuition revenues that they generate going forward, the increase probably wouldn’t have been proposed at all. One only has to look at the plan that was actually proposed - which had tuition increases only at certain SUNY schools (I believe this only would have impacted a dozen or so of the 64 SUNY campuses) and those increases were capped and indexed. UB, with their huge downstate population and demonstrated commitment to aid both low-income, first generation, and minority students, as well as local populations, was the original author of that proposal. It’s hard for me to understand how allowing our largest and most comprehensive university, located in one of the most economically depressed areas, more freedom to leverage their assets, establish public-private partnerships, and raise tuition by 10% (under $500), with a cap and offsets for low income students, is in any way going to have a negative effect on the downstate taxpayers. Buffalo is the second largest urban area in NY and it seems logical to assume that building the WNY economy can only be good for all of NY.</p>
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<p>I know this is a pet peeve of yours, but do many people really care about this? Do other public schools make a point of separating their student stats? Does CUNY report this data? Since SUNY does clearly list the stats for each school on the suny.edu website, and a huge percentage of SUNY students are instate, I’m just not sure why it matters so much. The SUNYs that give merit aid often list the separate qualifications for OOS students…these are generally lower, and I’d guess the same is true for admission stats. That is done to encourage diversity, which most people would consider a good thing to have in a student body.</p>
<p>kay, I’m not sure I’m following you…the TAP eligibility cut off is the same for all NY’ers, isn’t it? Or are you saying that more people upstate would have taxable income under $80K? Is there some data supporting this perception that the TAP budget is spent mostly on upstate students? I have never seen that and would be interested, if you can provide a link, since it’s a common perception up here in “college central” that most of the low-income students are coming from downstate! </p>
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<p>What I am trying to say, possibly not too elegantly, is that the same income level for a downstate family doesnt leave as much disposable income as an upstate family. Raising tuition can more easily price out a downstate family. </p>
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<p>As regards the prisons, I think there’s more a sense of resignation among the upstate residents. Although they have provided some jobs, they don’t seem to be the types of jobs that most people are keen on performing and they certainly don’t provide economic growth for the region in the way that developing other resources/industries would. They were definitely not welcomed when the state began placing them near upstate communities! </p>
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<p>The NY Times (again today) basically said the upstate people are fighting to keep their prisons and have been since the first Gov. Cuomo. </p>
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<p>I share in the common concern over pricing kids out and agree that the usual upstate/downstate wrangling has been, and will probably always be, a key reason why the SUNYs have been perceived as less than what they really are and generally take a backseat in the budget process. But starving them for revenue and continuing the ridiculous and needlessly wasteful amount of state regulation that they’ve been subjected to (remember, for many years they were not even allowed to solicit donations!) is certainly not the answer. Since the actual SUNY student associations, along with many SUNY parents, have petitioned for predictable increases for several years now, instead of the large, unexpected ones that the legislature typically throw out at the last minute, I think Mr. Silver’s concern may be a bit misplaced. </p>
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<p>We’ll have to disagree. I am not certain students always understand the entire picture. </p>
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<p>Those with low incomes were getting their entire tuition paid for via TAP, before the legislature was forced to cut it by $75 this year, and, IIRC, the plan called for a guarantee that those who were receiving aid would receive offsetting grants to keep their net tuition costs at current levels. </p>
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<p>Again, this money goes a lot further for an upsate faily.</p>
<p>As to SUNY’s not disclosing IS v. OOS – I think transparency is a good thing. OOS tuitition is much lower than surrounding states and it is not difficult to wonder who that subsidy is going too. As to diversity, I think within NY one can get a pretty diverse student body.</p>
<p>Yes, I do think a lot of people want answers to IS v. OOS qualifications, especially given the OOS tuition below neighboring states. As taxpayers we give money to SUNYs. Maybe not as much as the SUNYs would like, but yeah some. Anyway, then the SUNYs charge below market OOS tuition, and wont even tell the taxpayers the whole picture. Thats arrogant to me. Maybe instead of our new Chancellor working on these new public/private partnerships (gee, want to bet that helps upstate more than downstate?), she could try to figure out a way to raise OOS tuition, which would encourage other states to enter into reciprocal compacts (which there is minimal motivation now) and actually do things to benefits students, not upstate businesses. </p>
<p>Silver has a lot of support.</p>
<p>My state flagship has a COA of more than $20k in state. We do have several less expensive state schools, though. The best deals by far are the state schools if a student lives at home & commutes. I work at one such school, and tuition is quite affordable for most with our financial aid policies. </p>
<p>The students I feel bad for are those who do not have a local CC OR a local state U. These students are usually located in rural areas & do not have the money to afford the cost of a stay-away state school. </p>
<p>I firmly believe tuition costs MUST be controlled far better than they have been. The cost is rising too quickly, and greater access to loan money is not the answer.</p>
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<p>I think it’s somewhat myopic to think that the nano industry that Albany is focusing on and the bio-medical complex in Buffalo is only going to help upstate businesses…in addition to driving technical advancement, these industries will provide high-quality, professional level jobs, increase state tax revenues, and have a much broader impact. Just because some things happen north of Westchester, doesn’t mean they don’t have significant impact. The usual ridiculous downstate vs. upstate nonsense has to be set aside for the good of the entire state. In the recent state of SUNY address, Chancellor Zimpher did not mention the tuition increases but seems to remain committed to the plan to have SUNY aid in the economic recovery of NY state.</p>
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<p>[Chief:</a> SUNY key to 40,000 jobs - Times Union](<a href=“http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Chief-SUNY-key-to-40-000-jobs-966985.php]Chief:”>http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Chief-SUNY-key-to-40-000-jobs-966985.php)</p>
<p>Since the tuition increase did not pass, the new SUNY plan is to have campuses compete for state aid :eek: I don’t see how this could possibly benefit our instate students and predict it will lead to more program cuts…as I said, it was extremely shortsighted of the legislature to think that massive funding cuts coupled with level tuition were sustainable.</p>
<p>Btw, OOS tuition has been increased several times in the past few years…did you miss that? It went up $2260 in 09/10 (instate tuition went up $620) and again this year, bringing it to $13,380 currently. Grad and professional program rates increased as well. The problem is that this is always done at the last minute - this year’s increase was announced in August and the 09/10 increase happened midyear. I think that is completely unfair to the students and their families and is something SUNY would like to avoid.</p>
<p>In the end, it always comes back to the problem of trying to govern the single largest public university system in the country as if it were a government office. These observations are worth thinking about:</p>
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<p>Saying that upstate-downstate nonsense has to be set aside is very close to saying downstaters should pound sand. Dont be surprised when Sheldon Silver weighs in. I don’t think I am being myopic. I actually think public/private partnerships don’t make sense. Universities should not be subsidizing business. If businesses want their technology, they should pay for it. I also dont think technology businesses want to locate in Buffalo and subsidies wont make it happen.</p>
<p>I do agree with the way increasing OOS tuition was handled was very unfair. I don’t think it should have been increased more than a reasonable amount for current students. </p>
<p>Around the block from me, one of my DDs friends moms, school teacher, is a single mom living in a 2 bedroom 3rd floor apartment in a walk-up, praying her car doesnt break down. Her child gets no TAP. Silver understands these people. Now maybe you think she made a mistake living in a high COLA area, but she can not change it now. My guess is the comparable middle class person would get some TAP money if living in a lower COLA.</p>
<p>I think the problem is that if SUNYs raise tuition, even if TAPs are also increased, the downstate middle class are still more easily priced out (becuase for the same income level, they have higher rent, and less disposable income). Shelly Silver understands that. What would your solution be? Other than telling downstaters to get over it.</p>
<p>If you can get into Harvard, the cost for a family with income less than 60K, is not expensive at all. For a student barely meet State Flagship admission line and have high income, then you are stuck between the rock and a hard place. You can choose to get into a CC for a couple of years and then transfer to the State Flagship. That is a good way out.</p>