And the next article they publish will extol the benefits of a weekly drink or two. Honestly I just ignore studies like this (pro or con)
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@simba9 I’m betting the research that shows a glass of wine is good for you is funded by the wine industry! lol
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I don’t think you can compare Covid research to the study of alcohol, which has been around for forever. Covid has been here since 2020. According to the study cited in the NY Times article:
So, 60% of the study’s deaths were caused by conditions related to some type of disease or condition.
According to this Canadian researcher:
And I’m no scientist, but this doesn’t sound so good:
Now, I stopped drinking alcohol a VERY long time ago, because alcohol reduces sports performance. Maybe work performance too, but that I don’t really care about as much. 
Alcohol reduces your body’s ability to convert food to energy and it also reduces carbohydrates and blood sugar levels. And that will cause lactic acid build-up and dehydration.
Again, no one is taking away anyone’s access to liquor. I mean, then we wouldn’t have any Super Bowl commericals to watch. But at least we continue to get more health info.
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The point I was trying to make is that research often results in conflicting or inconclusive results, and I wanted to use Covid research as a recent example. The headline and first line of the original article tried to make it sound like the research was conclusive about alcohol, when it really isn’t.
Again, I’m not a scientist, but doesn’t the whole chemical reaction with your cells appear to be conclusive? Any scientists in the house?
I think the human body is way too complicated to focus only on a chemical reaction with cells. I’m not a biologist or doctor or anything, but I have taken a ton of statistics classes, including how to conduct research studies. That’s when you learn how iffy and interpretive a lot of research is.
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A scientist here. Was involved in studies of DNA damage by chemical agents. 
Many older cancer chemotherapeutic agents work by alkylation of DNA.
Ethanol by itself will not react with anything inside your cells. It does however get metabolized into acetaldehyde and then further into acetic acid. Acetaldehyde is much less reactive than cancer chemo drugs or even formaldehyde which is produced from methanol, but it can react - as proven by experiments in vitro - with thiols and amino groups present in proteins and possibly with some DNA nucleobases, but that by itself does not prove that it can damage DNA inside a cell. To get to the DNA, a reactive molecule need to travel through a “soup” of other biomolecules that can trap the reactive molecule. Liver damage by excessive drinking is more likely in this scenario than long-term DNA mutations. Moreover, there is a very extensive cellular DNA repair machinery that monitors for broken strands and mismatches and fixes the damage. To really wipe out DNA, you need to create a double strand break. Not that easy!
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Does acetaldehyde (that’s hard to spell) increase the probability of DNA or cell damage in the body?
I don’t think the above article is stating “if x, then y,” but is stating that “If x, then the chance of y happening increases.” Unless, I’m misreading it.
Thank you for your expertise BTW.
Total non-chemist/science researcher here, but isn’t acetic acid vinegar? Should we also be avoiding that?
Not meaning this in the least bit snarky–I’m a big balsamic vinegar user, so this question seems salient.
Possible, but how much will cause any damage, and does any of that damage lead to non-lethal mutations that can be passed onto the next generation? The latter is very highly unlikely, again because our organisms have adapted to protecting its genetic code very well. Liver is the first line of the organism’s defense from foreign molecules, including acetaldehyde and many drugs (a classic case taught in every med chem class: why Tylenol and alcohol can be a deadly combination). Liver is pretty good at clearing out the bad stuff until there is too much bad stuff, and liver gets overwhelmed. Amount matters, but concentration also matters. Two glasses of wine in one hour is more damaging than a glass at lunch and a glass at dinner.
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Acetic acid is not reactive under biological conditions. I like my acetic acid in the form of rice vinegar. 
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Thanks. I was confused when you said that acetaldehyde turned into acetic acid, and also was reactive in cells. Just reread more carefully, and realized that wasn’t what you said.
Sorry! I should have worded this a little better.
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A propos acetic acid: an Austrian friend taught me how to make poor man’s Austrian wine (that is very light and effervescent). Bubbly water with a dash of vinegar. I love it and it helps digestion. I think most people in Southern Europe drink wine as a digestive aid with meals. The Northern Europeans have a more complex relationship with alcohol as I think they use it more for psychological purposes and many of their governments are very controlling of its sale. I remember visiting a friend in Sweden, and we wanted to get a bottle of wine for a dinner party she was hosting. We had to wait in line at the government alcohol shop to get it. Contrast that to a similar situation in Greece (visiting friends, procuring the wine). We went to a local mini-market with empty liter-water bottles and they filled them up for us with fresh wine from wooden barrels. That was a pretty funny experience!
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I guess you’ve never vacationed in Utah?
I have but have never tried to buy wine. Is it the same?
Yes, I don’t think it’s the only state that has a “complex relationship” with alcohol. What struck more most was that every time I went in the liquor store there was a cop there. Maybe other types of crime are rare and they don’t have enough to do…
I remember in a Plano, TX restaurant once I had to join some kind of “club” to order alcohol. Weirdest thing ever. I wonder if they still have those laws?
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Like all of you here, I’ve watched the health trends come and go over the decades. My mom and MIL bought into many of them. Low fat, low sugar, low cal, keto, paleo, “clean” eating, etc. There’s a bit of a cannabis can cure all thing going on right now, which is fascinating. Anti-inflammation and seed oil fads too.
I don’t think that teetotaling is a fad and I totally support it for those who choose it. I would be surprised if it’s not actually healthier than moderate drinking. And alcoholism is a cruel and destructive disease.
Most of the physicians I know eat normal food, drink normal amounts of alcohol, and get normal amounts of exercise. They are on the higher end of “normal” for healthier behaviors, yes. But they’re not way out of range for the most part.
I’m not a physician (just a research scientist) but spouse and have also stuck to the healthier end of normal. But we don’t deny any real pleasures. I don’t care if butter is bad or good for me. I will eat as much as I want even if it shortens my life span. Because it provides me joy.
I do believe that total abstinence from alcohol or using small amounts is the healthiest. And we have to be careful for potential addictions. But I’m too old (at less than 45 LOL) and tired to care about what’s the perfect stuff to do to ensure my health. Being vegan and doing caloric restriction (if you do it right) both have evidence of prolonging life. But I’d be miserable if I did either. I am unwinding with a post-work IPA as I type this.
My health-conscious mom got breast cancer at 42 (caught it early and she’s healthy as can be). She was afraid to drink for 5 years after that even though she adores an occasional beer. She is old and unhappy right now. My dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s shortly after retirement. Also old and unhappy. Other than that I have great genes. Spouse and in-laws have even better genes. It’s not fair to those who don’t.
I watched my uber-healthy BIL descend into orthorexia and exercise addiction over the last year. It’s been sad to see and we weren’t even able to enjoy cooking or hanging out over the holidays due to his obsessions. It has ruined our family time and I have such compassion for him. He inherited that from his mother, despite being very self-aware.
Spouse and I eat everything, try to get plenty of produce, don’t drink excessively. I’ve had birthday and anniversary dinners at Taco Bell because we like it. We exercise a ton because it makes us feel good and we like to have strong bodies. But we basically do what we want health-wise and it rocks. Life is too short.
I’m editing to add that I don’t care if anyone chooses things differently than I do. If my friends are sedentary, fat, drink too much, obsessed with weight, health nuts: I don’t care. If they want to talk to me about it, and want help with it, I am there to help. Otherwise, you do you and I support you entirely! I love you as you are.
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I listened to this Huberman podcast recently. If anyone is interested in further exploring this topic, it might be one to add to your list.
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