<p>I think that debrockman’s argument, which he’s made elsewhere, is hijacking an otherwise thoughtful, if mis-posed question. debrockman, I suggest that you start a post where he can explain to the world why the Ivies have mediocre student bodies because of their pricing and financial aid policies. Those who disagree with you can take you on. While the phenomenon you are describing may contribute to the public discontent with colleges, it is unlikely to be the primary driver behind that discontent.</p>
<p>I also question debrockman’s comment about public schools offering “good merit programs.” In my experience, public schools are so strapped for cash that only few students can count on any merit aid. Fact is, for students of merit, it’s often cheaper to go private - and that includes the Ivies - than to attend the state U. That’s certainly true in the case of my daughter - attending a good private at less than the cost of the major public research univ in our state.</p>
<p>If costs are really going to come down then colleges cannot, contrary to what has been posted here, lower their prices by, say, half and then cut out financial aid altogether. </p>
<p>Won’t those who had been on FA end up paying about the same amount after prices have been cut? The point is that even WITH financial aid the costs of attending private college is far greater, proportionately, than it ever has been – certainly in our lifetimes – and it is not affordable for the majority!</p>
<p>I’m planning on tuning in to PBS on Friday, Feb. 26, at 7 PM to hear what Richard Vedder and others have to say regarding this important debate (after an afternoon in which I read that our state flagship’s merit scholarships have been drastically decreased, and realizing that I can’t afford the $65 for Vedder’s book: Going Broke by Degree: Why College Costs Too Much). </p>
<p>[Center</a> for College Affordability and Productivity: Upcoming Event - February 26 - National Debate](<a href=“http://collegeaffordability.blogspot.com/2010/02/upcoming-event-february-26-national.html]Center”>The Center for College Affordability and Productivity: Upcoming Event - February 26 - National Debate)</p>
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<p>Seriously? That is hilarious.</p>
<p>Yes, and that is the price of a used copy. It sells for $231 new.</p>
<p>I’m guessing he’s not going to argue that textbooks are too expensive…</p>
<p>Thank you proxy.</p>
<p>I am also discouarged by the two class system at colleges, with senior administrators and professors being extremely well paid, and answerable to no one, and many adjuncts barely surviving.</p>
<p>They are paid according to their value to the college. There is a ready replacement for nearly every adjunct willing to accept the pay. Top level profs are much less replacable as it take decades to build a top academic reputation and build a research grant generating program. The average professor at a research university brings in 3 opr more times their salary in research grants. This is how colleges pay the bills (and adjuncts).</p>
<p>And grants come from where? Manna from heaven? No. From taxpayers.</p>
<p>The big change in attitudes toward those who “act like a business” since 2007, is due to whipping up of resentments for political purposes.</p>
<p>I actually think the $50K price tag is worth it. First of all, campuses are beautiful! As my son said about Stanford: “Wow! This is the only opportunity I will have in my life to live in a place like this for only fifty thousand a year!” There are many built-in amenities.</p>
<p>Secondly, a top education is very hard to value. Sure, it is expensive, but I am happy to be a full-pay parent for MIT, as long as my child is maximizing his opportunities. If he were spending an inordinate amount of time drinking, playing Dungeons and Dragons or otherwise gaming, putting off studying and then pulling all-nighters, not passing a full load of classes, etc. then I would start to think it not worth the cost. But most students are seriously invested in the rigorous education offered, so it is thrilling to be a part of that.</p>
<p>Thirdly, when did students become so helpless? Most residential camp counselor jobs pay about $450 per week plus room and board. A student should be able to save $5000 per summer. That’s for the fun jobs. Try serious work for bigger money - construction trades, mining, fishing boats. A Canadian friend told me her son made $50K in his summer between junior and senior year as an apprentice engineer in a diamond mine. Tutoring is also fairly high-paying - $30/hour and up ($60 is more typical around here). At ten hours per week, year round, that adds up to at least $15,000.</p>
<p>I don’t think it helps anyone to wallow in resentment, whether one is on the low-income, or the high income end of the scale.</p>
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<p>He could easily own a home in Palo Alto for a fraction of that. (Median home price: $1.35mill). $50K for 8 months would amount to a $6,250/ mo. mortgage payment. At current interest rates, he could probably service a mortgage in excess of $1million!</p>
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<p>True. In the first place, not all selective colleges run $50K/year. Many are $40K-$45K. Some top public flagships top off at about $35K for OOS. When you deduct a modest merit scholarship ($5K-$10K), a summer job (~$5K), school year employment, outside scholarships and prizes, gifts or no-interest loans from relatives, etc., then even if you are a “full pay”, your net out-of-pocket (drawn from college savings or current family income) can be quite close to the cost of an in state, public university.</p>
<p>So a middle or upper middle income family, one that is barely too affluent to qualify for need-based aid, can have many choices available for a good student IF they have accumulated enough college savings to cover the cost of an in-state public university. Whether the extra cost of a private school is worth it depends on the school, the student, and circumstances.</p>
<p>As a family caught in the middle, with a large EFC, we were baffled by the very wide variation in aid/merit packages from top 20 institutions for our high achieving student. As you ponder how much you can afford to spend on a college education, realize that there is another angle from which to view the price of college. Colleges pay marketing companies to determine to within a few hundred dollars the amount of a discount it would take to get a particular student to matriculate. The offers are related to how much a college wants a given kid, and how much the college thinks a given kid wants to attend, again based on market research. I was surprised that the calculation had so little to do with the institution’s actual cost to deliver an education. And, note the “admit/deny” classification. If you think low income kids have it made with regard to big financial aid packages, think again. “Need blind” is a sham, because although the Admission office may be, the financial aid office has the the power to make or break a matriculation with their offer, and they know it. I have seen talented low income kids come away with nothing but a Pell Grant from some highly endowed colleges (and this was prior to the recession).</p>
<p>See this (older but still relevant) article from the Atlantic: </p>
<p>[The</a> Atlantic Online | November 2005 | The Best Class Money Can Buy | Matthew Quirk](<a href=“http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/200511/financial-aid-leveraging]The”>http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/print/200511/financial-aid-leveraging)</p>
<p>Here is a link to a major market researcher:</p>
<p>[Maguire</a> Associates - Services - EMPROVE: Pricing Optimization and Value Enhancement](<a href=“http://maguireassoc.com/services/emprove.html]Maguire”>http://maguireassoc.com/services/emprove.html)</p>
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<p>Umm… are you actually complaining that the 50k price tag for your daughter’s education is over-valued??</p>
<p>At nearly every institution, the VAST MAJORITY of costs are funded for by grants, investments, sports revenues, etc. Tuition is only a small fraction of the real cost of running a university.</p>
<p>I’m a student at Duke University, and the budget cost for running my school this year is $1.8 billion. A mere 17% of that (~$300 million) come from tuition fees. The rest is subsidized by grants, donations, endowment income, etc. I can only imagine that the numbers are comparable, or even more pronounced at peer institutions. </p>
<p>So unless you want your child to attend a school with no campus, no landscaping, no athletics programs, no extracurricular or academic opportunities, or any of the countless little details that make the college experience as rich and amazing as it is, don’t go dreaming of subjecting higher education to market forces: the only result will be true economic stratification and the destruction of the spirit of learning.</p>
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<p>I’m looking everywhere for these jobs, but I certainly can’t find any.</p>
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<p>Umm…college tuition has increased at twice the rate of inflation. My university had all the things you described way back in the dark ages, and many students were actually able to pay for college themselves by working and taking out reasonable loans. Good luck making that happen now for $50K or even $25K in tuition.</p>