<p>prpdd, I agree with pretty much most of your post on this thread. This one is no exception. I really didn't mean to imply that the ny schools are vastly superior to the bs. Of course that implication would lack validity. Maybe I was a little overzealous with my arguement in the face of fierce opposition.</p>
<p>After hearing about some of these schools, I really would like to visit a few of them. They sound like phenomenal institutions. Btw, I'm not a Chapin student.</p>
<p>Wow, it looks like this was a heated post. I haven't been on this site in a while, but I live in NYC and work with kids applying to boarding and day schools. Not to be corny, but you have to find the right school for the right kid. But we all know that.</p>
<p>I want to make one point and that is that NYC does not have a monopoly on top day schools. I agree that it is much harder to get into a NYC day school than a boarding school. (Some of that is because some day schools only take a handful of new 9th graders, vs. hundreds at a boarding school) But overall, I encourage families to consider boarding schools because they are so much easier to get into. But I do this with clients in New Jersey too. I have clients get accepted to Andover, Exeter, Choate, etc. and soundly rejected from Delbarton and Pingry every year. Other consultants say the same thing about the top day schools in CT, Dallas, LA, Chicago---just about everywhere. There is a lot of interest in day schools in this country right now--boarding's popularity is on the decline, and day schools have never been hotter. Admissions is only one measure of what makes a school great, though.</p>
<p>But anyway, it all depends on the kid and finding a good fit. Just wanted to add my two cents worth.</p>
<p>edconsultant22 -- Thank you for your thoughts. I've heard that boarding schools' applications have been flat for years. However, I've been following this board for over a year now, and you would not conclude this based on the popularity of boarding schools on this board. I live in the tri-state suburbs, and boarding schools are popular here, although I have no basis to compare it to years ago. It seems to me that the top 50 or so boarding schools are thriving while some boarding schools are slowly converting to a larger % of day students, and other boarding schools are existing by increasing financial aid applicants without the endowment to support this. It seems to me that a third strategy has been to increase full-pay internationals. Do you have any data showing the decline? I'm just curious. Thank you.</p>
<p>my dorm faculty, who's an admission officer thinks that the overall pool of boarding schools apps have been flat, no significant increase or decrease, but there's definitely reallocation. More apps shifted to the high end, the top 10 or so boarding schools, while the lower end ones get less interest... Therefore, the high end boarding schools keep getting record high number of apps and record low admit rate while the lower end ones get less apps.</p>
<p>Burb parent,</p>
<p>Yes, you are right. You've noticed the shift to day students, and inmany cases, the day students are much stronger. For example, the Master's School, in Dobbs Ferry has stellar, high achieving day students and a tough admissions process, but for boarders, it is relatively easy. I often recommend it to kids that won't get into top tier boarding, but want to be at a school with sharp kids, good morale, good teachers, good college placement, etc.</p>
<p>That is just one example. The issue of international students is a huge one as well, and one which effects the acceptance rates. Most schools keep the % of Korean or Chinese students at about 5%. Often, this means 1 boy spot and 1 girls spot in the 9th grade for a Chinese student, 1 for Korea. So, for those two spots for Koreans, they schools will get 200-500 applications from Korea. Often, they just stop handing out applications or stop interviewing. But they do get 200 rejections out of it, so that is another reason you see the low acceptance rates. An admssions off. at a small CT boarding school told me they had more applicants from Korea than from the USA! So, they do get a lot of international full pay applicants, but can't take them all.</p>
<p>ANd yes to bearcat--the top schools still have a lot of applications, and the lower tier ones are hurting a bit. They have to spend a lot of time recruiting, and finding full pay kids is the goal. </p>
<p>Overall, I would still say that the day schools are more competitive in admissions. Look at Sidwell Friends, NCS, Georgetown Prep in DC--they are just swamped with top applicants. Each city has this trend going on. </p>
<p>But I'll put in a word on the "non-top tier" schools. I've seen boarding schools change kids' lives. The structure, the new friends, the fresh start, the small classes, etc. It isn't just about prestige, but giving a kid an environment that will help him to be the best student he can be.</p>
<p>Thanks bearcats. Does your dorm faculty have hard numbers for the overall reallocation? I know that Blair experienced a 20% increase in inquiries, tours & aps this year, after double digit increases last year as well. These increases go beyond the top 10. I like to study markets, so if you have any hard data, I'm very interested in seeing it. Also, I've heard that the overall numbers are flat, but edconsultant22 said that the numbers are in decline. I've even wondered if your new head comes from abroad to help position your school internationally if nationally declines are expected. Just wondering.... no facts to base this on.</p>
<p>burb parent,</p>
<p>one thing I forgot to answer for you: no, I don't have any data on the decline. But at conferences that I attend, they usually have a session on "boarding schools in decline" and the Wall Street Journal had an article on it about 6-9 months ago. </p>
<p>And you mentioned that the top 50 schools are thriving----I'd say the top 30. The other schools have to work hard to get full enrollment. They might be wonderful in many ways, but they feel the decline pretty sharply. The things that boarding schools do in response to this is: add PG students, add day students, increase the size of junior class to capture the late boarding school applicants, and also hockey has been a wonderful boon to boarding schools. (Hockey parents have money and hockey parents are addicted to ice time.)</p>
<p>"I've even wondered if your new head comes from abroad to help position your school internationally if nationally declines are expected."
i have no clue, tho i dont think this is the main reason to bring him in..i mean seriously we have a record high of domestic and international apps this year anyway. but sure, he's definitely going to have an impact, given his relationship with united world's colleges and stuff, but i think the main reason to bring him in is to further stage hotchkiss towards global citizenship, something the school's been emphasizing on for the last cople years</p>
<p>i think the main reason behind the phenonmenon that edconsultant and burbparents are talking about is becoz, simply, the top boarding schools have HUGE endownments to fund financial aid programs and stuff than the lower tier schools. If it's more likely for me to get more money at a more prestigious school, why would i even bother applying to the lower tier school? i think that's the general mentality ..but i dunno.</p>
<p>actually, edconsultant, we are doing the complete opposite thing, with the 2 new dorms constuction, i heard the admissions office cut down the number of day students and enrolled more boarding students. so i would expect our boarding student percentage to rise from the current 92%</p>
<p>Thank you edconsultant22. I hadn't considered the increase in 11th grade applicants as a way to fill beds, but that certainly makes sense. And I've know many hockey parents who drive hundreds of miles every weekend, so boarding school is a great solution.</p>
<p>I have another question for you, but I'm going to start a new thread because I don't want to hijack this thread any more. Please take a look at my question. Thanks!</p>
<p>Burbparent,</p>
<p>Sure, I'll look at your upcoming question. ALso, I see you mentioned Blair-that has skyrocketed in popularity. Peddie too. Which is partly because of the "he can go to boarding school only if it's less than 2 hours drive from NYC" phenomina, which the WSJ article from a while ago mentions too. Parents want to go to all their kids games and be involved, and they can do that at Blair.
By the way, which burb do you live in? Not specific town, but NJ, CT, LI, Westchester?</p>
<p>Hm...as a Chapinite-turned-Exonian, I'll add my two cents. I attended Chapin from Kindergarten through 6th grade, and I must say that in all honestly, Chapin was the best school I've attended, and had my family not relocated to Italy... The people were warm and wonderful - I'm still in touch with many old Chapin friends - the teachers were absolutely amazing, the classes were challenging. I can't remember being as motivated/challenged at Exeter as I was at Chapin (in middle school, that is. Lower School was apple juice and naptime). Granted, I didn't attend the high school portion of Chapin, given the fact that I spent most of my seventh and eighth grade years in Europe (both international and home-school), but I nevertheless found that the sort of things Chapin taught in middle school proved absolutely excellent preparation for Exeter. The Chapin environment was, and from what I've gathered from Chapin friends, still is in Upper School, a warm, nurturing place, with a very close and not at all competitive student body - the exact opposite of Exeter.</p>
<p>Just one person's experience, of course, but I feel the need to step in and defend Chapin a bit.</p>
<p>It's unfortunate that I missed this topic. </p>
<p>Shannyc- I'm actually a Senior at Brearley. Something about unattractive girls (no quote, just reading off of what you said), hit a nerve, but made me laugh a bit too. Although, no generalizations, we do not all fit under that catagory. </p>
<p>Quick info:
Older sister #1 was Dalton '00. She went all the way through.
Older brother was Collegiate '02. He was there all the way through.
Older sister #2 was Exeter '05. She went to Dalton until 9th.
Myself: I've been a Brearley Beaver since K. Before 9th, I applied and gained admission to Exeter. I visited, and knew that I would hate it. My sister loved it. </p>
<p>Moral: All of my siblings ended up in the Ivy League by way of BS and NYC Day. This topic definitly hit overkill from the beginning. It definitly comes down to what is best for you. Both options offer quite possibly the best secondary education in the country. If you do not live in NYC, BS may be the best opotion. If you do live in NYC, most people will agree that the "best" education is right here, so there is no need to go away to BS, although some do choose it for whatever reason. One thing that really bothered me about this thread and urged me to post was the fact that this thread is aboyt PREP school, not BS, although that is what the majority of the people choose to post about. It seems that these people do not realize that there are other option, and perhaps should try to be open minded. Of course, we will all be biased towards our Alma Maters. </p>
<p>I just thought that I would get that out there. :)</p>
<p>The best schs may be in NYC, but the day sch have only the few seats left vacant by attrition, so competition is keen. The BSs, OTOH, are filling a 9th grade class and in some cases as much as half of the 10th grade class - - so admission to even the top BS is far easier than to a top day sch.</p>
<p>While I admit that Iâve never applied to a New York City day school, it sounds as if many posters on this thread are trying to make boarding school sound easy. My response to that is: Are you kidding me? Getting into a top boarding school is not easy, and you simply cannot compare the experiences. Iâm not even going to go into all the ways boarding school prepares you more adequately for college, because Iâm sure thatâs something everyone here is familiar with. </p>
<p>I attend Phillips Academy, and yesterday, I had a long conversation with a girl who just left the Chapin School. She said that as great as her old school was, boarding school is a different world that equips you in different and important waysâyes, her old school had a fantastic library, but it definitely wasnât Andover, it didnât have the history and the element of total-immersion that the Andover experience does. We had just come from dinner in the Artistâs Apartment with Andoverâs artist-in-residence, and she admitted that it was a completely unique experience that she never could have had anywhere but here. Another point I have to make is: Andover has about 60 New Lowers this year, and a rather large percentage of them come from prestigious New York City day schools like Chapin, Spence, Dalton, etc. If itâs so great, why leave? Why would their parents decide that boarding school is an invaluable place for them? </p>
<p>My last point of contention before I go back to writing my English narrative: I may not have applied to a NYC preparatory day school, but I did apply to the oldest and most prestigious college-preparatory school in North Carolina, and let me tell youâjust like every place else, there are your Wallets and your Brains. My best friend went to a private school in Manhattan, and according to her, itâs the same thing. A low acceptance rate does not necessarily a superior school make, though that is what some people here seem to be looking for, especially since the rate is low due to the structure of the school not necessarily the schoolâs selectivity.</p>
<p>Iâm not trying to deny the effectiveness in the education systems of New York day schools, but I feel that it is increasingly important to realize the reasons that boarding schools have been providing top-level educations for 200-plus yearsâitâs because there are things that these âhotâ day schools canât do. Your definitions of âbestâ are narrow. I went to the âbestâ school in North Carolina and my friends have attended the âbestâ schools in New York, but the âbestâ school for us was a boarding school, one that I feel obligated to add is never missing from the list of the top schools in the <em>world</em>. If I had gone from private school straight to college, I would have been overwhelmed by a sense of confusionâas it is, I feel more prepared not just for college, but for the world and life ahead of me.</p>
<p>Clearly BS and day sch offer different experiences.</p>
<p>The students you're seeing from Brearley, Spence, Chapin, Collegiate, etc. probab want a less rigorous academic experience so that they can enjoy other aspects of shc life. Most of the girls from Brearley who left in D's year were serious student athletes (D has DI times/distance in track and swimming) whose sports required facilities (pools, ice, etc) whose access, in the city, was limited to unGodly hrs (5am ice time) - - but which, at BS, were on-site.</p>
<p>And, while BS may be "best" for some, BS enrollment (especially # students who actually board) have been declining - - in large part due to the increasing popularity of day sch. Also, I can't think of any BS w/ outcomes as consistly strong as those the top day shcs (at Brearley approx 40% of each class qualifies a NMS semi-finalists and approx 27% enrolls at HYP).</p>
<p>D'yer, could you correlate the Nobel Peace Prize winners list with where they attended high school. ;) It could be the Spunkel to go along with the Dunkel. I know most of those guys don't dress well enough to make it on to E! but that's not really my highest ambition for my child.</p>
<p>It's remarkable that Jesus had the influence he did. I don't think he even had a shot at a decent magnet school....</p>
<p>:) Bemused in Shanghai</p>
<p>I think Andover has almost that level, maybe as much, nyc. (This is not a diss to other boarding schools. Repeat. Not a diss. I only happen to have the numbers for Andover.) Seriously, though, we should let this thread die. It doesn't matter which school is the best. It's like arguing about whether chocolate or vanilla ice cream is better. You will never get anywhere. They're all great. Different great, but still great. Now everyone go to your corners and finish your homework. ;)</p>
<p>Mother Teresa used a private school for upper class girls as the launching pad for her Peace Prize. That's the main reason why St. Mary's School for Girls in Calcutta has a Spunkel Rating of 964.87 (after factoring in the international exchange rate as of the close of business last night). Strictly among private schools in India, St. Mary's score is 1,764,779.70. If that was adjusted for the Bolivian scoring equivalents, St. Mary's would be at 483,884,883.16. But get this: Andover's score in Bolivian Spunkel points would be 72,898,487,739.5!</p>
<p>Quote: </p>
<p>ÂThe students youÂre seeing from Brearley, Spence, Chapin, Collegiate, etc. probab want a less rigorous academic experience so that they can enjoy other aspects of shc life.Â</p>
<p>NYC, ARE YOU JOKING? IÂm trying my best to be unbiased here, but the fact that youÂre painting boarding schools in general (especially Phillips) as a relaxing breather is outrageous. The insinuation that these students are coming to Andover as a BREAK from an exhausting Manhattan education is ridiculous, not to mention infuriating. No one comes to Andover because they are SICK OF A CHALLENGE.</p>
<p>Also, I donÂt know about Âlower-tier boarding schools (your words, not mine), but Andover and Exeter have been seeing record numbers of applications, rising each year.</p>
<p>Quote:</p>
<p>ÂI think people around the nation note that JFK Jr. attended Collegiate and Browning, Jackie Kennedy attended Chapin, Hiltons attended Spence and CSH, BloombergÂs daughter attends Spence, Ivanka Trump Chapin, Katie Couric, Woody Allen, Jerry Seinfeld, Tish, Diana Ross, Gwenyth Paltrow, Vera Wang, the Hearst family, the GettyÂs, Rudy Guliani, this list can go on and on, but I think you get the point. If you donÂt think the world takes notice on where these people send their children to school, itÂs going to be obvious that the fact you attend hotchkiss is overiding your sense of logic.Â</p>
<p>While it is true that people love to watch their celebrities on E! News, people also happen to care about where our top government officials, Nobel Prize winners, CEOs, and prominent journalists went to school, not just the alma maters of celebutantes and heiresses. IÂd rather see my children go to schools that have educated senators as opposed to stand-up comedians. And just so you know, JFK, Jr. did go to one of those NYC day schools, but he graduated from Andover. His father went to Choate, and his uncle went to Milton. If their middle school educations matter so much, I should think their high school years matter as much, if not more. </p>
<p>As Prettyckitty pointed out, this is like arguing over whether chocolate or vanilla is a better flavor. IÂm going to let the debater in me die down and walk away from this argument, albeit with the strong conviction that however delicious chocolate is, thereÂs a good reason people go back to vanilla again and again. </p>
<p>Thanks for the work out, IÂm going to need it for the debate conference next weekend. :)</p>
<p>And Jackie Kennedy went to Farmington (Miss Porter's).</p>
<p>Ivanka Trump graduated from Choate, as well.</p>
<p>JFK Jr's uncle (oldest Kennedy son) went to Choate as well.</p>