<p>Can I just say that reading this thread makes me <strong>almost glad</strong> that our stress is from college admissions and not this. It just doesn’t end, does it…</p>
<p>No, it doesn’t end for a very long time, but it becomes less consuming for the parents, hopefully. If kids have an “expectation” that they will continue training for life on mom and dads dime or an “expectation” that they will have a guaranteed apartment waiting for them in NYC that could be an issue I guess. Although, I don’t personally know any kids with these sorts of “expectations”. And, I know many kids who are some level of successfully working None of them are taking regular voice lessons, btw.</p>
<p>evilqueen…college admissions is just the start, LOL! Sorry to break it to you, but nope, it really never ends. One thing that hopefully ends is parents bankrolling it all! But in this field, an artist is never really in a long term secure type job and so there are lots of auditions, job hunting, and short term work, etc. So, it’s always something! And yes, ideally, training continues, if one can afford it. </p>
<p>The topic of training brings back a memory for me. My daughter started taking voice lessons when she was 12. I recall after about a year, my mom couldn’t understand why we were still paying for voice lessons and thought by now the kid knows how to sing and why would she still need more lessons! Ha!</p>
<p>Question for showmom: your daughter did not have to use you as guarantor for year 2 - is that because she had built enough credit history after year 1? We are in similar situation.</p>
<p>bazaarshopper - we had rented an apartment for my D for 2 years prior in NYC while D was in college, so this new year will be her 4th year in a NYC apartment. This may be the reason why she didn’t require a guarantor and could sign on her own.</p>
<p>Check the fine print – it could be that the reason a person did not need to sign the guarantor on Year 2, is because it continues from the first lease! I agree it was scary, because although I had supreme confidence in my D’s budgeting abilities, I wasn’t so sure about the 2 roommates! When they moved after year 2, they didn’t need to have guarantors - not sure if it was because of established work history, established NYC rent credit, or the fact that one of them had booked an extremely lucrative tour contract, and had banked a bundle! I think subletting is a great idea to start anyway - usually are furnished, so you don’t have the startup expense of buying furniture, or moving it to NYC. Also, since a lot of young people book work out of town, then you are not the one worrying about finding a sublettor for your own place!</p>
<p>On the subject of training, I get the fact that it is expensive, but the head of my D’s program told them that they are fools if they aren’t in class, as each new crop comes in the spring, fresh from training and in optimal shape. For dance, there are drop in classes that are fairly reasonable. For voice, network – possibly find an older alum from your school who can at least be a good set of ears, to make sure no bad habits are creeping in – easier to maintain what you have, than to let it slip, and try to get it back. </p>
<p>I’m hoping @showmom858 doesn’t mind me copying her awesome post from the “NYU Debt” thread here so that future people finding this thread see the info she so kindly provided.</p>
<hr>
<p>Post by @showmom858…</p>
<p>Someone asked about the costs for living in NYC for a new graduate. My D graduated a year ago with a musical theatre degree and has been supporting herself for the past year. She is still on our insurance and our family cellphone plan so she doesn’t have these expenses. She lives on the upper upper west side and is only 2 blocks from the subway. The neighborhood she lives in is mostly working class families and a lot of students and new grads in theatre or the arts.</p>
<p>Her rent is $850 a month and she shares a two bedroom with a friend in a 5 floor walkup. My D is a nanny for a family with 2 school aged children on the UWS. She also does babysitting for a toddler in the West Village. D’s share for electric is about $40 a month, but going up to around $60 in the summer when they run the air. Internet is expensive and I think her share is $20 or more per month. They have a tv with an antenna, no cable as this is not something D or her roommate can afford. Monthly subway pass is $112. D is a vegetarian (sometimes vegan) so grocerices which are lots of fresh vegetables, fruits, etc run $50-$60 per week. Personal items (shampoo, cleaning supplies, paper products, etc) I think run about $40 or more per month. This adds up to $1,300, but does not include eating out or money for entertainment. My D does like to eat out occasionally and go out with friends so I would probably add another $40 per week for that as well as doing “pay what you can” yoga 4 times a week which costs another $40 per month. I would add in an additional $100 per month to cover laundry and replacing clothes/shoes only as needed. So I think this all comes to $1,600 per month. I would say this is really the minimum needed to survive. If your kids are willing to share rooms after graduation D has friends that pay rents of $500 or less per month and are living with 4 or more people in 2 bedroom apartments!</p>
<p>My D makes enough to support herself and has even been able to save a bit since she graduated. My D’s afternoon nanny job starts at 3 so she is able to audition some days. D grocery shops and prepares dinner for the kids each evening and tutors the elementary and middle school aged kids. The family that hired her wanted a college graduate that could look after the kids and take them to afterschool activities, run errands, cook, tutor and drive! </p>
<p>MomCares- thanks for copying that over. One thing that I didn’t include was costs for travel home. My D is on the other side of the country from us so you need to factor in plane tickets. D usually comes home at Christmas and in the summer and we have been covering those costs. </p>
<p>Also know that if you have to move apartments in the city it is very expensive to hire movers. My D only did this for her last move from the UWS further uptown to the 5th floor walkup. She did not have a lot of stuff and it still cost almost $400 with tip. My D has also carried a small bookcase on the bus and transported a dresser in a taxi. She has also rented a van to pick up furniture from Brooklyn and bring it back to her place. She is very brave to drive in the city!</p>
<p>Ha. I had to sign for the whole danged apartment, as did my son, as did his apt mate, as did his parent before they could get that place. The management company goes after everyone is my guess if a problem arises. This is not for NYC and not for a theater kid either. I could have said no, and he would then have had to find another option, but it was a very nice apartment, perfect locale, price was reasonable, and the roommate seemed to be solid, so I signed. Not happily, but did it. First time I ever did but sometimes, you weigh all the factors and go against the grain if it seems to be the best alternative and you can afford it. Ironically, I’ve NEVER signed anything for my actor son’s residences, and he lives in a pretty nice place. Under certain circumstance, I probably would have caved and have signed. And yes, you can get burned doing so, and burned if you don’t and your kid ends up in a crack den somewhere, which I’ve seen happen too. </p>
<p>We’ve not paid for “training” but I hear about workshops and the such on occasion and have no idea whether he paid for them, taught them or took them. The thing that is time consuming and difficult are many of the productions of which he is part that pay little or nothing but are important for networking and contacts. One of the problems I see with my son is that he wants to perform above all, not do the outside things, though he has and currently is doing as a survival job. What he wants to do the most is what pays the least and is the most difficult to find at a living wage. So he is often in the position of working to support his performing in something that doesn’t pay much or at all. There is no lack of opportunities to perform in NYC. Or to write or to sing or to dance or to play an instrument or to produce. The crux of the matter is to get paid a living wage to do so. That is the huge stumbling block. My son could be making a very good wage doing back stage work. He gets offers for that kind of job all of the time, because he is strong, trained for stage work, and has good carpentry skills and is intrepid in making things work on a set. But he does not want to do this. There are alot of things he could do and make a lot more than he is, but he is still trying to get on a roll to perform and get paid enough to be able to only perform as a job. I worry, because I feel he is coming to a point where he needs to make some other type of decisions in this regard. I also hurt because I do so want him to get what he wants, as we do for our children, and it has been so much work, so much hope for him wrapped up in this.</p>
<p>
I suspect the above is true for at least 99% of all aspiring actors in NYC. None of us wish to admit it, but odds are good that – no matter how talented our kids are or how much success they’ve already enjoyed – our MT kids have a tough financial road ahead of them, and/or a career change later in life. Our hope is that the education D is getting will serve her no matter what path her future working life takes. Fingers firmly crossed.</p>
<p>Gyspy housing on Facebook is a source for artists/performers who need roommates. Some cost as little as $650 a month with roommates. You have to ask to join the page, but well worth it.</p>
<p>Gypsy housing is a good site but it is for temporary housing, not what is going to be most useful to new grads.</p>
<p>Some of the places on Gypsy housing are longer term. New grads may want to try out an area before signing a long term lease and this is a good way to do that. My D also found a roommate via gypsy housing. </p>
<p>Does anyone know if the rooms are usually furnished? </p>
<p>NightOwl2 - you just have to look at the postings as each place is different. Sometimes rooms are furnished and sometimes they aren’t. </p>
<p>It also gives you an idea as to what is “common” rent for different areas. I agree with showmom, it’s a great way to begin living in the city because you can see if you like certain areas, how the commute is, etc. You also don’t need all the up front costs which helps when first starting out. Having lived in the city, my daughter knew that a quick, convenient commute was her top priority and she was willing to pay up for that or have less of an apartment. One year later, she is thrilled that was her top priority. She has friends staying with her often, for a few hours or days, because of her easy commute. Others have different priorities and some have no idea until living there for a while. Then there are the lucky ones who are suddenly touring and want no commitment so a sublet or short term lease is perfect.</p>
<p>So true. One young man we know who has been working since graduation is nearly never in NYC. Of course, he auditions there but not one job has actually been in the city and it’s been three years.</p>
<p>My D chose to live uptown on the westside because she has an easy commute. Friends that live in New Jersey and Brooklyn sleep on her couch when they have early auditions. My D (like amtc’s D) was willing to give up space for an easy commute and she has been very happy with her decision. </p>
<p>My S graduated with a BFA in acting in May and is living for the time being in NYC. He has been doing gypsy housing by finding rooms in apts thru friends of friends. It looks like he is spending about $800 or more a month not including housing, but including food, incidentals, subway, taxis. He is spending the summer learning how to produce a play in NYC. He also has a survival job as a waiter, which has reduced food costs because he can eat cheaply at the restaurant, and he is taking an improv class. Initially, it seemed that his expenses were pretty high, particularly because his rent in college was very low for the hovel he lived in with a bunch of other guys. But I keep telling myself that we are not going to have to pay tuition any longer. Also, he will be absorbing his day to day expenses now that he has finally received a paycheck. He probably is going to move to LA once the play producing project is over so in the meantime he plans to keep doing gypsy housing. There also is a Facebook page for NY Actor Sublet which seems to be a helpful resource for finding housing. </p>
<p>OK here is another thing to be on the lookout for when you get to NYC: I call it, disguised versions of “pay to play” which more or less still amounts to not being paid for what you do but still paying to do what you do. There is a ton of this to be had. Decide where you stand on it.</p>
<p>As examples: cabarets and other performance opportunities at really reputable locations in NYC where I guess the hope is for exposure into the NYC market and maybe some decent video for your reel. Things that require an audition which I assume (but I’m not sure) means to get invited to perform means you must have some level of talent. But then you get booked… and the booking comes with a requirement to also sell X number of tickets. Pay may be zero or a percentage of the house and everything in between. And these venues probably are for a 21+ crowd with a two drink minimum which your invited guests need to be prepared to pony up the cash for. </p>
<p>Meanwhile you are a student… or a recent graduate and all of your friends are broke or on a student’s budget (and many are still under 21). A night like this is $50 minimum unless you are lucky enough to have parents of rising star actually offset the $15-20 admission ticket by paying for it so their kid can hand them out. Even if so, your guests will still be on the hook for the drinks unless said parents are also covering that which means that most of their friends will have to think long and hard about how easy it is to come and support you if they are on a budget. Which if you are like any one of them and not on an parental allowance and trying to make it on your on in NYC will mean that that the entire amount of your $13/hour restaurant shift that you just worked will go to supporting your friend… with not a dime left over for rent. </p>
<p>So there is that too. </p>