Probably that student’s case was more of just not knowing what to look for in a college as a pre-PhD math major, or perhaps not knowing that he wanted that path while selecting colleges.
Many (if not most) students who choose LACs are undecided, so this student probably wasn’t planning to be a math major. These students are unlikely to have looked at the depth of course offerings in any major.
I’m also not sure I buy everything the Vermont LAC woman was stating. She had a three-quarters tuition grant from the Vermont private school but claims she could have gotten a better deal at her state public? Do they not charge for room and board and books where she comes from?
My concern about any Opinion prices like this is that I suspect it’s “I searched around and found 10 people that support the message I want to deliver”.
The best section of the article is in the comments.
I thought the Skidmore guy was an important addition to the piece.
Skidmore is selective (I think they are high 20s/lows 30s). Mr Math PhD (and many others) mistakenly use selectivity as a proxy for academic rigor and advanced curriculum.
I did a lot of research on Skidmore and similar schools. Skidmore is a great school because (1) they take reasonably strong students with niche interests (2) they do a good job with those students, and (3) they offer expensive amenities which, depending on the student, may or may not serve their growth & development. To finance this, they clearly look for parents who are able and willing to pay for what they do.
The upshot: if you are a genius and/or a striver looking at this place as an Ivy backup: Caveat emptor.
Here, money buys great liberal arts professors, individualized attention & support, infrastructure for the arts, a great town, great food… Also on-campus apartments with window seats and views. Also indoor tennis courts… Also a top equestrian program…
At some point, you need to ask if you really want to pay for this.
FWIW, my older son was admitted here and may attend. Students with way higher stats on this forum were rejected. He has the creative ECs they want. Also, as a student who is both introverted and 2E, we’ve learned that he benefits a lot from close support. I think he’d get a lot out of what they offer and we’re willing to pay for it (and I have no doubt that $ was part of the admissions decisionmaking process). But what works for him has never been cheap. He’s a good fit precisely because he’s not headed for a math PhD. My younger son is a plain vanilla extroverted bright STEM kid who is unlikely to get into a top 20. We’ve concluded that he’s far better served at our state flagship.
Fit is really everything. Selectivity is a a red herring.
You’re not wrong. On any of those points. I just thought the Skidmore guy was creating a strawman argument; LACs don’t promise an endless supply of courses in any one department. They promise to point you in the right direction and help figure out “how to get where you want to go.” IMO, if they can do that at a price you can afford, they’ve done their job.
The article pretty much matches what I see for those who have regrets.
Of course, what I see is most kids don’t have regrets - they love where they went, even if it originally wasn’t their top choice. Most also end up with jobs they like.
Of those who have regrets, high loans is the biggest one. Being underchallenged at college (not enough peers, courses, research they like) is second, and those tend to come from picking schools that weren’t actually up to the caliber of the student for their major.
It’s super important to find an affordable fit. For some kids hundreds of colleges would be just fine. For others it’s more limited. Know the student and research the school beyond Top X. Look at what is offered in the desired field and compare it to other schools.
Often, the limitations are more financial. A student from a poor family who lives in a rural area out of commute range of any four year college and whose stats are good enough to be college ready but make it unlikely to get into a good-financial-aid residential college or get a full ride at a less selective residential college may not have much in the way of affordable options to study for a bachelor’s degree.
But those students are probably not the target of the opinion piece linked in this thread.
I understand regretting taking on debt to pay for college. It’s difficult but certainly not impossible to consider the impact of tens of thousands of dollars of student loan debt on your young adult life, and regretting that decision and lack of consideration is something that, I would hope, the authors would use to make a plan to pay off their debt.
I once had a boss who attended undergrad at Harvard, and he blamed his unhappiness at age 45 on Harvard. He expected more out of that degree than the education and felt he was shortchanged. I have a college friend (from an expensive top-10 LAC) who took on student loans to do it. He blames his parents because they pressured him to attend, even though he didn’t stand up for himself and say no to the loans. When he gets dejected about this, I ask him who signed the loan documents. That usually gets him to stop projecting.
College is an education, it sometimes involves job training, but that’s it. It is unrealistic to expect a college education to give you immediate or lifelong happiness, a lucrative, satisfying career, a personal life, etc. It’s just college. Don’t expect more than that of it or you will be disappointed. And if you cave to pressure, learn from the mistake, correct it, and don’t do that again. That’s called responsibility.
As someone who’s much younger than most people commenting here somewhat ironically for a college admissions forum, I deeply regret my college experience.
It was completely pointless. I didn’t need to go to college - I learnt absolutely nothing that I need for my job (financial services) and I only did it because society forces people to get a degree just to get a professional job.
Out of 800 people in my building, most have degrees and that goes for even staff nowhere near the investment process.
The only thing I got out of my degree is my group of friends. That’s it - people philosophize about how college makes you expand your thinking etc.
To me, it’s just signalling value. Employers like degrees because it signals that you managed to study fot 4 years, not because it necessarily teaches you anything of value.
If I could have got my job without a degree, I would have done so.
Affordable was in my post - you quoted it. And yes, for many in my state that means loans, but there’s a big difference between basic student loans the Fed offers and huge loans that some take out to get to “Dream School.” It’s actually rare in my area for students/parents to opt for high loans. Chances are, many don’t qualify.
What most students (who come back to talk with me) like is the fun they had, enjoying time with peers, etc., doing things on campus from sports to clubs or events or things like that. Those who do research will often talk about that too, but not everyone does research. And most definitely give credit to their degree for their job, even if they aren’t directly using their degree.
Same goes for high school TBH. Not many will tell you they loved sitting in Algebra class, nor will many tell you they use that in their adult (post college) lives. They have certain teachers (or profs) that they really liked and tidbits of info they salted away from various courses, but the fun comes from other things most of the time.
Of those who skip college and go directly to work - those I know around me - they often miss out on the fun TBH. They still have friends, but working in factories, stores, or construction all day (which many around me do) doesn’t have the same level of free time. It’s just a job.
That said, not everyone is interested in college and that’s ok. No part of life is perfect for everyone. Humans are built differently.
I think there’s something about getting out and having spending money and the broad outlines of an independent life that has a disproportionate appeal to young men . Often, they marry women who are better educated than they are and it’s the wife who eventually becomes the bigger breadwinner. That may bother some men; there’s some evidence that it certainly is a concern for women seeking desirable mates.
Totally agree college is fun, friends, memories for sure. Best time of my life! Debatable the level of academics utilized in your career. Likely depends on the career (obviously it’s a must for some - wouldn’t want a doctor that didn’t learn a thing at college). But I’d argue that it’s a different education when attending college while living at home than living away from home. IMO, that “education” is priceless and is notable. Something about adulting without a parent crutch.
Good summary. Why would someone go to Chicago and take on debt to be a teacher?
I agree. I refer to college as a “halfway house” toward adult living.
That’s a very expensive “halfway house”.
Interesting perspective.
Mine is, “You only live once - might as well enjoy the journey!”
Then figure out what path helps one enjoy the journey remembering that many don’t do well with excessive debt.
I’m surprised you feel like you could have done your job in financial services right out of high school (having worked in the industry for 15 years before pivoting to something else). Apart from feeling unnecessary (from an education standpoint), what else makes you regret going to college - was it the cost?