<p>" We dont note that information, says Gila Reinstein , a Yale spokeswoman. She does know how many received perfect scores on all three sections, though: 25 percent."</p>
<p>Is that really true? 25% of yale students have a 2400?</p>
<p>The following article not only sheds important light on the subject of gender bias and the SAT but analyzes how many colleges administrators look at the new SAT writing section:</p>
<p>"At Rice University, standardized tests have their share of supporters and detractors. Rices vice president for enrollment, Ann Wright, serves as a College Board trustee, but she says that the SAT is only one of many factors used to select students for admission to Rice. Academic achievement in high school and difficulty of courses attempted are both major influences in deciding who is accepted, and Wrights office also looks at recommendations, activities, leadership, personal qualities, and special talents.</p>
<p>But even with the importance of these other factors, Wright believes that Rice will continue using the SAT. The SAT is a good predictor of how well suited the student may be for the first year of college, she says. Standardized tests are useful in seeing how a student performed on one test that is given nationally. They usually verify what we see on the high school transcript.</p>
<p>In addition, the test may identify late bloomersstudents who have ability but who have been slow to get started in school and have a somewhat lower grade point average. Another use, Wright says, is to help define abilities when we find substantial grade inflation or major differences in high schools across the country. But, she adds, the SAT does not predict motivation or special abilities in specific areas, which is why the test must be used with other criteria. We need all the tools available to determine the best fit for Rice.</p>
<p>Wright does not view the SAT as being culturally biased but rather believes it reflects inequities in educational opportunities. I have seen the research on how questions are tested with different ethnicities before they are used, she explains. I do believe that disadvantaged students dont do as well, and the test results can reflect poor schooling. At one point, only wealthy students took advantage of coaching, but now, coaching is available to almost all students.</p>
<p>While Wright believes that the SAT is a good resource for determining academic success, she also believes that the impending changes in the test will only improve it. The University of California system raised some good questions about standardized testing, she says, and the College Board has been responsive to the challenge. Adding a writing section to the SAT, she says, will show what kinds of practical writing skills students received in high school.</p>
<p> Too often, the essays we receive as a part of the application are polished and sometimes written by others or corrected many times in an English class, Wright says. Critical reading is an extremely important criterion, as is math. Basically, I believe that the approved changes will improve our knowledge of student abilities.</p>
<p>The SAT is administered by the Educational Testing Service (ETS). With about 3,000 employees, ETS is the largest private educational testing company in the world. Nancy Stooksberry Cole 64 was president of ETS for seven of the 11 years she worked there. She recently retired and lives in Colorado.</p>
<p>Cole says that the SAT was designed to measure the skills that will be used throughout college and that it has been doing that amazingly well for a number of years. No other predictors, she adds, have consistently done better. The SAT is very valuable in getting a lot of reliable information with little time requirement, she says.</p>
<p>But she cautions that standardized tests are not intended to be the sole qualifier for entrance into college. And she admits that the SAT does not measure creativity or motivation. We havent figured out a way to measure creativity or motivation, and thats why I really feel that supplemental information is very valuable for fairness.</p>
<p>Being fair to all groups who take the SAT was a major concern for Cole at ETS. After earning a bachelor of arts degree in psychology from Rice in 1964, she did graduate work at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where she received a Ph.D. in psychology in 1968. She then went to work at American College Testing, a competitor of ETS, and did research in cultural bias in testing.</p>
<p> I studied the issue for many years and concluded that tests usually are not biased in any simple way, says Cole. To ensure fairness, Cole explains, ETS statistically analyzes tests to identify particular questions that show unusual results between racial, cultural, or gender groups. Trained reviewers also inspect the tests for biased questions.</p>
<p>Defining what is bias poses another problem, Cole says. Differences among groups do not necessarily mean there is bias. For example, students who come from poor, less educated families that offer little support to their children usually dont do as well on the SAT. The gender difference on the SAT shows the complexity further. On average, she explains, boys score higher than girls on the verbal and mathematics sections of the SAT, while girls score higher than boys in writing. So, emphasizing one section or another can give the appearance of gender bias.</p>
<p>But in general, Cole says, the SAT is pretty fair to all groups. And the expansion of measures will help make it better. The addition of the writing test is an excellent idea, she says, and was long overdue, since the SAT is one of the last admission tests to include a writing sectionthe GRE and GMAT began including writing tests several years ago." </p>
<p>The assertion by the reporter in the original article uses faulty reasoning to conclude that Critical Reading scores often mirror Writing scores. It's quite plausible that the admitted students as a whole can have the same or very similar <em>median</em> or average scores on the two sections, but that doesn't necessarily indicate that the two scores are highly correlated for any given student. As an oversimplified example, student A can score an 800 in CR and a 500 in W, student B can score a 600 in CR and a 700 in W, and student C can score a 400 in CR and a 600 in W. The three students as a whole have the same average scores in CR and Writing, but the scores definitely do not mirror each other for any individual student! The argument in the article is fallacious. The Writing section definitely does offer an additional dimension to the information about a student.</p>
<p>It's also true that the SAT II Writing test was a very good indicator of future academic performance, and there is no reason to believe that the new SAT Writing section will fail to follow this trend. The major differences between the old test and the new section are that the old test was far more lenient in the scoring (in terms of the conversion scale, but probably also in terms of the scoring of the essays) and that essay scores from the two readers now must agree within one point (the old test merely required that they agree within two points). These differences can only serve to make the new Writing section more rigorous, less subjective, and probably more predictive than the old test. Let's not forget that the time limit for the essay has also been increased (from 20 minutes to 25 minutes), allowing more opportunity for a "polished" essay. (Also keep in mind that the essay score on the old test represented about 33% of the total score, while the new essay comprises closer to 30%, giving less weight to the essay, a step in the right direction.) Of course, the 25 minutes are still not nearly enough time to demonstrate one's creativity and "re-writing" skills, but graders do keep in mind that the essay merely represents a "rough draft" written in a short time, which is why one might think that certain essays that are scored a 5 or 6 are actually not that good. They probably are not very impressive to a mature and critical reader, but they ARE relatively good when compared to other essays written under the same time pressures. Length may also be a major factor in a reader's criteria, although it is not listed in the official rubric. It is virtually impossible to write a "6" essay in one page. Many strong writers who nonetheless take a longer time to formulate an argument may be earning 4's or below because of this consideration.</p>
<p>The new SAT is by no means perfect, but I do believe that the College Board has worked hard to make the new SAT an even better test, and I welcome most of the changes. My prediction is that far more schools will be using the Writing section scores in two to three years once they are have enough data to compare those scores with the students' performance at the schools.</p>
<p>Frankly, I like the writing section, I'm not a native english speaker and the first time I took the SATs I got a 8 the 2nd time I got a 12, I'm still in shock. As for you people saying that probably all people have the same scores on Writing and CR, thats completely untrue; my score in writing is around 670, while its only 600 or so in CR. A lot of you are discussing the validity of the essay and how some ppl can't write wel under those conditions well the majority can do fine, for those who can't write a letter explaining to the colleges, Anyway, I think the essay portion is great, it serves as a comparison like many of you have said in comparing the students score to their actual personal statement considering that the majority of students have their essays completely edited by other people if not entirely written. Plus, I think doing well on writing and not well on CR will help me, regardless of what many colleges have said....getting a 12 on the essay will grab your attention considering only 0.006% got 12 on the essay (someone on this forum wrote this statistic) Anyway, I don't even go to an english school, and have never studied english at school, so I think its going to help me a lot in proving that my writing skills are sufficient for the college's requirements.</p>
<p>godot</p>
<p>What if the scorers of the essay don't agree within one point? What do they do then?</p>
<p>Bethievt, in most ways, scoring for the new SAT essay follows the same procedures used for the phased-out SAT II: Writing Test. The essays are scored (the CB avoids the word "graded") by two trained, independent readers on a scale of 1 - 6, and their two scores are then combined to form an essay subscore that ranges from 2 to 12. According to the CB, "only 3 percent of essays needed to be resolved by a third reader".</p>
<p>Of course, another difference in scoring procedure between the new and old SAT is that the new SAT essays are scanned, distributed and scored electronically.</p>
<p>Again, here is yet more information than anyone really wants to know from the CB culled from the recent SAT test results:</p>
<p>"The College Board performed analyses on 6,498 essays randomly sampled from the March 2005 through January 2006 SAT administrations. Results demonstrated that longer essays were more likely to receive higher scores; however, the relationship between length and score was only moderate (.62). Eighty-four percent of essay responses reached the second page. Half the essays used the first-person voice. Score differences were slight, with first-person-voice essays averaging a score of 6.9, compared to 7.2 for those not using first-person voice. Only 8 percent of essays were identified as using the typical five-paragraph essay structure. Fifty-three percent of essays used academic examples (historical, literary/art/music, science or technology, and current events or politics) and 52 percent of essays included some type of personal experience as supporting evidence. Some students used both types of examples."</p>
<p>To add to the above: for the new SAT writing test, essays are scanned and distributed to readers via the Web. Scoring and reader supervision also takes place online.</p>
<p>the article said that it was a mistake to think of a 2100 as a 1400...</p>
<p>so wat is it then?</p>
<p>If the whole compare-this-to-the-personal-statement-if-it-seems-fishy thing is part of the point here, why not do what they do on the SSAT (private highschool admissions test): have you write the essay, but instead of scoring it just make it available to the school? Would save the College Board money too, and maybe then I'd be able to afford to take the standardized tests I need.</p>
<p>what i like about the writing session is that it can be compared to essays...if too much of a difference, well....</p>
<p>I think its stupid they dont look at the writing section. God forbid there be a section of the test that requires kids to be articulate, politically aware, and intellectually active! Everything should be a concept that has been coached since elementary school!</p>
<p>Most colleges do look at the SAT writing score although the jury is still out on just how most adcoms will use the writing score for admissions purposes. Another proposed use of the writing section score is to use it for placement in 1st year English composition courses. But, the writing section does make many students (and parents) nervous and ill at ease because it is fundamentally unchartered territory - and students do have to be articulate on demand. </p>
<p>Crouton, great question and I think we all wish we had the answer. Problem is that until after the spring of 2008, when the CB's comprehensive validation study will be released, nobody really knows what the combined score scale of 2400 really means. Some school administrators at elite LACs say that they would like to see scores of 1900 and above but the CB encourages everyone - for the time being anyway - to think of the score as a composite: critical reading can be combined with the math but the writing should be considered separately. According to the CB, you can compare your verbal scores to your critical reading scores, and you can compare your math scores from the old test with math scores from the new test. So that leaves us with the old 1600 scale which basically reinforces the mind set of the old SAT. The College Board also makes clear that scores from the old SAT Subject Test in Writing and the writing section on the SAT Reasoning Test are not comparable.</p>
<p>Parents and kids hate the writing section because it transcends rote memorization techniques. Tough ****, it's a measure of actual intelligence and awareness of world issues.</p>
<p>"the article said that it was a mistake to think of a 2100 as a 1400...</p>
<p>so wat is it then?"</p>
<p>well they mean that the overall grade out of 2400 can be overly inflated by an excellent writing score, a section which has not been throughly validated</p>
<p>instead of 700 V 700 M = 1400
you can get a 650 V 650 M 800 W = 2100</p>
<p>just comparing the 2 sections a 1300 vs. a 1400 is a big difference in college apps, and colleges aren't sure if the writing should be weighted equally</p>
<p>Vyse, im not sure if your a student or parent, but the writing section is totally formulaic and is not really "a measure of actual intelligence and awareness of world issues"</p>
<p>essay all you need to do is form a thesis, support with some good (possibly made-up historically incorrect examples) and conclude</p>
<p>the multiple choice is just memorizing and knowing english grammar rules at least thats how me and a friend approached it and my friend got an 80 mc and 8 essay for an 800 and I got a 71 mc and 10 essay for a 730</p>
<p>I'm a college student. Im a little bitter about the issue, because my SAT score back in high school was 630 M 670 V, 800 W.</p>
<p>matrix, I don't think most educators or ad coms would think in terms of the writng score as deflating or inflating the composite score. The key here is that it is just too early to know exactly what the writing score signifies. </p>
<p>Since the old verbal and new critical reading sections are comparable they can be combined. That said, the composite score is only a snapshot of the test results. An SAT score is really a range - so that a 650 on critical reading/verbal translates into a 620-680. Individual section scores are important but a comparable math-verbal composite gives a college a great deal of information about the academic preparedness of a student. If the scores on the math and critical reading section are balanced that is yet another piece of information for ad coms to interpret in the context of all the pieces of information in the student's file. According to the CB, "there must be a point difference of 20 or more between percentile ranks, or a 60-point difference between critical reading and math scores, before more skill can be assumed in one area than another. There is no average yet for the writing section, so these scores cannot be compared to others as yet." As for the SAT writing essay, the readers are instructed to be generous and err on the side of the student, so that grammatical lapses on the order of "me and a friend" might not have a significant effect on the overall holistic impression and score.</p>
<p>While validation studies, percentiles, and averages give a point of reference for ad coms to understand what SAT scores mean in the context of all the students who took the test, in the final analysis this information is truly meaningful only in the context of your total application. SAT or ACT scores are just one piece of a larger picture that have to be interpreted alongside other academic and personal factors. This is one of the reasons why college administrators often declare that they view standardized test scores with a healthy degree of skepticism. Colleges that want a better, up-close look at a student's ability to write ask for graded high school writing samples with the teachers comments.</p>
<p>Vyse, I see no reason to be bitter - your critical reading and math scores were quite good and competitive. Obviously, you did brilliantly on the writing section and I am sure that did not go unnoticed. I think the more interesting question for you, now that you are in college (a freshman, I presume?) is just how your SAT writing score squares with your high school English grades and your performance in whatever English, writing, or rhetoric courses you are taking or plan to take in college. The College Board obviously hopes that the writing section will have a good degree of predictive value and, therefore, that high scores on the new SAT writing section will be matched by high grades in English classes - both in high school and college. At present, it is not possible to judge just what an 800 in writing and a 670 in critical reading actually means. What those scores do show is that the two sections attempt to measure quite different abilities.</p>
<p>I'm a freshman in colege, and I did quite well on the SAT, at least compared to the average student.</p>
<p>However, I disagree with the test, or really, standardized testing as a whole. But to focus on the writing section, I got a 770 the first time and a 690 the second. I don't remember my essay scores, but it dropped at least 3 points. The reason was because I didn't like the second prompt as well. Is it really an accurate measure of my writing ability with that 80 point drop? Moreover, I don't think I'm that great at writing at all. I'm not that creative, and it's hard for me to express what I'm thinking. However, I can write a basic 5 paragraph essay, and so I did well on that section. In fact, the first time I took it, I got 60 more points on my writing section than on my math section, and math is definitely my strong point.</p>
<p>Moreover, writing on some random prompt in 20 minutes is not a skill I've had to use here in college. In my rhetoric class, we do a lot of out of class essays, and which I typically get Bs on. With a 770 my first time taking the writing portion, you'd think I do better. But I get marked down for things that are not tested on in timed essays. We have had one in class essay in that class, and I've had other in class essays in exams in other classes. While I do tend to get better grades on those, they are still not the same as the essay on the SAT. For one thing, you know the content in advance, or at least you have a general idea about it. Also, many times they are testing on how well you understand something you've read or learned in the class; you're not given some random prompt.</p>
<p>Okay parents, in life what have you found to be more important: being able to write quickly, clearly and with a creative twist...or to do pre-calc? Okay, let's make that easier and say writing versus trig? I am not speaking for those that go into careers in mathematics and engineering (not a great percentage of the population), but for the rest of us, even (or especially) people who work in business..</p>
<p>
[quote]
To add to the above: for the new SAT writing test, essays are scanned and distributed to readers via the Web. Scoring and reader supervision also takes place online.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Does their scanned version look as bad as the one we get? Because it was almost completely illegible.</p>