<p>Thanks for stopping by, clearbrooke! Congrats on your accomplishments (and the Times story!), and best of luck at UVA! It’s great to see a CC member do well!</p>
<p>romanigypsyeyes–My H says for US gov’t purposes (such as awarding contracts to minorities), being Spanish won’t cut it. You have to be from Latin Am. or S. America to be “Hispanic.” That’s just crazy.</p>
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<p>I have a question for everyone. What race am I. I have no percentage of a specific race over 10%. I have native american in me (as does every other human being), and pieces of other races as well. However, I’m as white as snow. If I put down black, would you think I’m “cheating” the system?</p>
<p>This is all hypothetical of course. But it really asks the question about those who really have no race.</p>
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<p>I’m not trying to degrade your achievements in any way. But how can you make that statement? Obviously, you didn’t get into the school solely because of your heritage. But you don’t think it helped? If that is so, I’m shocked.</p>
<p>Illuminator1 “I know someone who was Egyptian, and he bragging about how he was using the system in his favor by putting himself down as African American.”</p>
<p>He wasn’t using the system he was just lying. Most surveys stipulate the you report Caucasian if you are derived from peoples residing in North Africa or the Middle East. Skin tone is irrelevant to the classification of Caucasian, e.g., there are plenty of people in India that are much darker than many African Americans. A problem arises if you use the term “white” because that gives only a subset of Caucasians, e.g., generally European.</p>
<p>UVA or Bust “I have a question for everyone. What race am I. I have no percentage of a specific race over 10%. I have native american in me (as does every other human being), and pieces of other races as well.”</p>
<p>Are you using ethnicity instead of race for your percentages? For example, 10% Irish, 10% German, 10% Japanese etc? I’m not sure there are ten races likely to be in your genetic stock. I don’t have any Native American in me at all and my family came over in the late 1600s/early 1700s.</p>
<p>“I know someone who was Egyptian, and he bragging about how he was using the system in his favor by putting himself down as African American.”</p>
<p>How you identify yourself racially to a school is not the same thing as how the US govt classifies people racially based on country of origin. The fact that you are American doesn’t automatically make you white. Neither does the fact that you are Egyptian. Visit Egypt and travel south. If the folks living in what used to be Nubia want to call themselves black, I don’t think either the US govt. or I am in a position to disagree.</p>
<p>As for your friend, only he knows how he identifies racially and he can define it any way he likes.</p>
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<p>How would you classify my friend whose parents both came from a South American country, both her first and last name are pretty rare (and neither has any sort of ethnic sound to it), raised her in a predominantly white area, only speaks English, and most people that meet her think she’s Indian (including a number of people at her workplace who grew up in India!)?</p>
<p>I remember actually writing a diversity essay about how I’m pretty diverse for a white person. My dad’s parents were jews that came through Ellis Island fleeing Russia and Germany and my mom’s relatives have lived in Appalachia since there were Native Americans attacking their forts.</p>
<p>People really need to identify their ethnic cultures and go off of that. Heinz 57 to me is NOT REAL I know how it happen, but there is absolutely no way anyone practices that many cultures in their regular life. What goes in the box for ethnicity is the ethnic culture you practice or your parents/grandparents once did. There has to be at least one or two dominant cultures that were practiced. I am biracial myself and I understand the dilemma the article poses, but I think college admissions doesn’t sometimes understand how different the upbringing is for this person and they really should put that into consideration. Expectations across cultures are very different and sometimes they butt head because my own parents did in expectations they had for me in my college and future.</p>
<p>Clearbrooke, you are only 16 and into college? Wow! You must be one smart accomplished young woman. To me, that’s MUCH more impressive than beiing half Japanese and half black! A double shout out to you. </p>
<p>And like I said before, I do not underestimate the issues mixed-race kids face in life. Those are an extra set of problems in addition to the usual teenage stuff of finding one’s identity in terms of “where do i fit in?” --which could be sexual identity, religious belief, coming to terms with ones economic situation, one’s artistic or occupational aspirations, how to relate to friends, family and hoemetown, etc. etc. etc. </p>
<p>My point was only that I think people overcomplicate this when it comes to college applications. Just be honest and check off the boxes that apply. I still think that most people know what their race/ethnicity is for this purpose if for no other reason than a) there are options to “mix and match” on most forms now, and b) there are rules all over the place that will let you know that, for example, egyptian or white south african does not count as african american, or that two south american parents is probably still hispanic, no matter the last name. The system breaks down and creates unneccesary suspicion and jealousies when people try to game it and that is what I object to. </p>
<p>But you clearbrooke-- I have the feeling that you would have been in at college no matter what box you checked!</p>
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<p>Well said.</p>
<p>I honestly have no idea what to put down. I’m Hispanic, Israeli, and Polish (among other things), but to define that all within one little section of boxes or sentences is pretty difficult.</p>
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<p>You are truly ignorant. Unless you yourself are in the position of not knowing what race to identify yourself as, you have no right to say people are full of it. My mother is from Taiwan and my father is from Germany. I have spent my childhood in both the United States and Germany, and many people do not realize I am half Asian. However, I am very close to my mother’s side of the family, specifically my cousins. I celebrate Chinese New Year and other Chinese traditions. I am both Asian and White and if I had to pick one, I would not know which to pick. So don’t say everyone knows what they are, because I am no single race.</p>
<p>What (decent) college would force you to choose an ethnicity? I’d choose Other rather than select a specific single race.</p>
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<p>I’m really OK with this- I just wish they would change the terminology. Neither I nor my mother have Spanish names (she did but her parents changed it shortly after birth… no one is sure why, and I got my name from my father’s Irish side). My mother and I also have blue eyes, light skin, and light hair. We definitely do not face the same discrimination as someone from Latin American/South American countries. If we had more Spanish-sounding names, that would be different… But as a whole, I am fine with being listed as only “white” because I am definitely not Latina. I am pleased that a lot of forms are changing to reflect this distinction.</p>
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<p>But you don’t have to pick one. You can, and should, check all of the boxes you feel necessary to express your identity, and elaborate if you’d like in the essays. </p>
<p>The problem, as I see it, is the strategic checking of boxes in order to attempt to gain an edge in the admissions process. Including, as in clearbrooke’s example, the exclusive checking of a race or ethnicity perceived to be the beneficiary of a “bump” in the admissions process. </p>
<p>Clearbrooke herself said on the prior page: </p>
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<p>But she did not check “Asian” as well because she was trying to “get an advantage” in the admissions process. </p>
<p>That’s not the earnest confusion of a multiethnic applicant attempting to come to grips with their racial or ethnic identity. It’s something else entirely.</p>
<p>What perplexes me most is why colleges ask for race…</p>
<p>^^ But the thing is why shouldn’t you check the box that is going to be most advantageous to you? Especially if the race that you check is one with dominant features that a lot of people would assume to be your race. If I’m going to be treated like a black person my entire life why shouldn’t I get one of the advantages that black people do get? It doesn’t really matter how much I identify with white culture it doesn’t make people see me as that. The general thought in America is that if you’re part black you’re black (the one drop rule and all that).</p>
<p>^ i think the larger issue is affirmative action. the systemic inequalities are more far-reaching than those dealing with higher education. what do you do about the inequalities that arise within the workplace?</p>
<p>MITChris, I’m not sure if you’re on the admissions counsel of MIT, but if so I hope you don’t mind me asking this question. How can a school justify giving an advantage to a student solely because of their skin color. I’m positive there are hundreds of students who apply who have faced the same, if not more, hardships; though their skin color may be white. It appears on the surface that many less qualified applicants are being admitted due to their skin color. And I agree, diversity in a school is incredibly important. Having a diverse class creates many different viewpoints and opinions instead of one homogeneous view. However, for me at least, I would say racial equality is more important. </p>
<p>It just seems like a step back in terms of racial equality to me. I think that the AA concept should be abandoned and replaced by an income based system. Say people whose parents make less than 50k should receive the same benefits as minorities under the AA system.</p>
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<p>So there is a lot in this post, and I’ll try to hit a few points of it. </p>
<p>First: </p>
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<p>This is a very fair point. I was discussing this with a colleague the other day. Consider the case of Barack Obama. He’s a biracial man, with a white mother and a black father. But there is no question that most Americans consider him black. And there is also no question that he himself identifies as black, and faced certain disadvantages in his life because of his blackness. There is a great quote in one of his books - I think it’s from Dreams, and I’m doing this from memory - to the effect of “I learned, as a young black man, that as long as you spoke politely and made no sudden movements, most white people liked you.” Obama was implying that, as a young black man, he had had to carefully monitor his behavior in order to overcome certain disadvantages that came with other people’s prejudices. </p>
<p>As with Obama, other biracial/multiracial folks face similar issues. And that’s what we want to know about! That’s why you can indicate multiple ethnicities. That’s why you can write about your identity and experiences in our essays. </p>
<p>What is not acceptable is what clearbrooke did. Clearbrooke is a multiracial student who lied for perceived strategic advantage. </p>
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<p>I would like to make two other brief points here. </p>
<p>The first is this: clearbrooke had an acceptable alternative open to her. She could have noted, on her applications, that she was both of Asian and African-American background. She could have written compellingly about her complex identity, and shared with colleges the same anecdotes she shared on the last page, or other examples of how her multiethnic background had shaped her life experiences and perspectives. She would have been able to tell just as compelling a story, perhaps even more compelling for its honesty, and she would not have been disingenuous in her application. </p>
<p>The second point is that the “perceived strategic advantage” here is just that. It’s an incredibly simplistic, naive, and inaccurate view of how holistic college admissions work. As we say on the MIT Admissions website in regards to our affirmative action policy: </p>
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<p>We don’t admit students “because” they are black. We don’t admit students “because” they “are” anything. We admit students because they make a compelling case for their own admission. </p>
<p>Race and ethnicity play into this calculus because they are two pieces of a complex socioeconomic puzzle that make up the applicant’s life (along with things like affluence, geography, whether your parents / role models went to college, the sophistication of your school system, etc). They are not themselves determinative. </p>
<p>The point here is that Clearbrooke would have been able to get the same “advantage” in the process while still being honest about her ethnicity. A multiethnic student who can write compellingly about how her race has affected her experiences is just as compelling as a student who exclusively identifies with a single ethnicity or race. Because we don’t care about how many “drops” (to invoke your metaphor) there are; we care about how it has affected your life. </p>
<p>There are many opportunities for applicants to make compelling cases for their admission to selective universities, and to talk about how their racial or ethnic identity has affected their experience. </p>
<p>It is unnecessary, and unacceptable, to lie about it. That’s my problem here.</p>