<p>All I know is I lived in Chelsea and the East Village for $700 a month. It is all about the roommates. :) The living quarters were small but at least I had my own room.</p>
<p>Have not, for the record, been pushed around by guys. More than my share have tried. My reaction is almost the same as MathGuy's girlfriend: 1) trust me, because I managed to live X years of my life without you and I've done a damn good job at it; and 2) if it really bothers you that much, leave. Date other people for your own sake: it's never healthy to get involved with someone who is heading down the road to perdition. </p>
<p>Invariably, I ditch them and they end up like the frat guy at the end of Legally Blonde - graduating without a job and without a girlfriend. ;)</p>
<p>Were you unaware of the debt situation when you got into this relationship? If I'm doing my math right, she's been at NYU for two years, and you've been with her for six months less than that. Why the sudden complaints? Or have you been harping on her for 1.5 years and wonder why she won't change?</p>
<p>As a science major (chem? physics?) she can get an employer to pay her masters, then pay her an increased salary for having an MS. That is one of the things that attracted me to engin.</p>
<p>I'm putting myself through law school on loans. I live off-campus and got loans for it - yes, private loans, but you can get loans for living off-campus. The thing is, you can't get loans in excess of what the school calculates your budget to be. So yes, she can get loans to live off-campus; she's just maxed out at $47,000 or whatever. Despite this, you can submit a form to financial aid to increase your budget.</p>
<p>Is putting yourself through school on loans scary? YES. Do I often wonder how it'll work out? YES. Do I know that it will work out if I do what other people tell me to do? Hell, no. My gut has not steered me wrong yet - so I do things the way they work for me. I'm lucky that the people around me are supportive. (Then again, I've done the math 10 ways and know that I can repay those loans in 10 years, worst case scenario.) </p>
<p>The way I see it, which is from your posts, you are giving her one option: ditch NYU half-way through and start over again somewhere else. As someone pointed out, that's not going to really help her very much. She's giving you several options: date her and trust her that it'll work out (with LateToSchool on this one; those who leap with their guts often have things work out for them); date other people and her; break it off. THAT is why I see you as controlling: as Blossom said, you're looking for exactly one result out of this, which is your way. You're not even giving her the highway as an option. </p>
<p>Some "lawyer" advice: whenever you complain about something, know what remedy you are asking for. Life advice: make damn sure you want that solution. </p>
<p>If you are asking her to ditch school, do you want her without a degree and $90,000 in debt? If you are asking her to transfer somewhere else, do you want her somewhere that will only save her $7,000/year but will require her to do an extra year? Do you want to know that your girlfriend never got the education that she wants for herself?</p>
<p>So you attract unemployable control freaks? Now at least we understand your bias. I hope you'll disclose your debt to anyone you're serious about. </p>
<p>Where on earth do you get that he's giving her one option? This has gotten beyond weird. Projection? I'm not sure you should be giving lawyer advice. Such advise would generally be based on sound reasoning and interpretation.</p>
<p>I think she makes some interesting points. Bobby you seem a bit argumentative...</p>
<p>
[quote]
So you attract unemployable control freaks? Now at least we understand your bias. I hope you'll disclose your debt to anyone you're serious about.
[/quote]
And I'm the one with issues? Riiiight.</p>
<p>A few bad men in my life does not forever strip me of the right to be opinionated when other people ask for advice. </p>
<p>Yes, everyone that I've dated has known that I'm putting myself through school, although none of them is welcome to pursue my loan agreements. Why should I disclose my exact debt? Frankly, that seems extreme. No one has the right to nose through an unrelated adult's finances. </p>
<p>I've actually had the reverse problem: one guy who was very serious, talking marriage, whose parents were putting him through school. As such, he wasn't as worried about getting the grades as I am. </p>
<p>I get the opinion that he is only giving her one option because:
1) he doesn't want to break up with her;
2) He doesn't want her to continue taking on debt at NYU; and
3) He's yet to mention that he's given her other options.</p>
<p>What's wrong with my advice? If you're complaining about something, whether in court or to a person, you should know what you want as a solution. Complain about the messenger, but the message is good. </p>
<p>Thanks, SweetNY.</p>
<p>Aries, come back to this thread when you find a man who is serious about you and who you are serious about and let us know if you're willing to discuss your financial situation with him. I'm guessing you'll lay it all out on the table, just like any reasonable and committed person would.</p>
<p>MG you are looking for miracles that will never happen. You know what you need to do, but you just can't bring yourself to do it now. I hope you do it before it's too late.</p>
<p>OK...it seems like everyone is giving him the same advice. I am not sure why ariesathena is getting attacked though. We are all saying they are incompatible. What is the problem?</p>
<p>You can't have the girl and the financial future you aspire to. You can have the girl, and her debt, or you can have a different girl, without huge debt. You'll have to try to ascertain that information early on of coure. The ball is in your court.</p>
<p>Aries, j/k, but you do seem to want to assume the worst about this guy. Isn't the issue that he can't give her options, not one or more?</p>
<p>I know all the financil issues of the person I'm considering marrying. Salary, savings, projected salary after B school...and she knows mine down to what percentage of salary and bonus goes into my house fund. Why would either of us want to hide this information as we discuss a future together? We have discussed at length where we want to live, how we want to live and how we'll pay for it. I could never fully trust someone who could not be open about finances if we are in a committed relationship.</p>
<p>So, IMHO, if MG is correct that the gf thinks he's THE ONE, I don't know how he can trust her. While guys always come off as the control freak, what about manipulative women who are looking for men with money. I have a good job and salary and I know how attractive that can be. If a women wants to hide her financials when we're in a relationship it would be foolish for me not to consider that she doesn't want to disclose the bad news without the ring you feel bestows rights.</p>
<p>They haven't talked about marriage. He's thinking it might happen, but they are DATING.</p>
<p>"They haven't talked about marriage. He's thinking it might happen, but they are DATING."</p>
<p>What do you think she means when she says "He's the one."???????????????????? Yet she still won't share her dirty little secret with him.</p>
<p>Talk is cheap. If she really wanted to move forward she would.</p>
<p>Wow. And I thought my life was complicated.</p>
<p><em>Cheers to being single and going to cheap state schools</em></p>
<p>(Sorry that I have nothing constructive to add to this thread, but I felt something needed to be said to break up the tension, that for some reason or another, has come between posters.)</p>
<p>Yippee for state schools as well! I second that motion.</p>
<p>Well, I think I'm going to digest what everyone has said here and not act on impulse for a second. Oh, and just to clarify....I did know this person before she transferred to NYU and REALLY TRIED to talk her out of it....we didn't know each other that well then, but well enough to tell her that I thought it was a not a wise choice. In fact, I did try to point her to other schools - most were not in the NYC area. Although I knew that things feelings were sort of developing at an emotional level, I was trying to be selfless and give her good advice.</p>
<p>Oh yeh. And I should say this. Yeh - I had my gut feelings on the situation, but it's hard to know if you are thinking clearly when you have other emotions involved and have no one to talk to.</p>
<p>SOO THANKS TO ALL OF YOU for your time and advice. </p>
<p>In light of all this, I will certainly be very cautious moving fwd. However Life is more than numbers, so I need to look at the other angles that haven't surfaced on this board. </p>
<p>I've already told her that I want to see if she can be "independent" for a while after she finishes school. She also knows that in order to move forward, I'd like to have an extensive discussion about finances, etc. I say this b/c she DOES NOT want to move to Tulsa, and wants to send her kids to ritsy private schools, etc. Given that, and the fact that I can't do it on my own, we would need to hammer out a plan to make it happen or change our expectations.</p>
<p>It's like I tell my youngest (who has prodigious spending habits)--"When you grow up, you better be rich or marry a rich guy or, preferably for you, BOTH." </p>
<p>Any chance you'll be that rich guy someday?</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
I have no beef with fiscal responsibility. What I do have beef with is his attitude, and I would encourage ANYONE who thinks I'm the "only one" to scroll through previous posts. I've been very clear - if you don't like the way that she runs her life - and to all you married folks, it's her life; they are DATING (by his admission, "on and off") - then he can happily get out of it. Has nothing to do with being burned and everything to do with not being a simple-minded ninny who lets her boyfriends act like her parents.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Did it ever occur to you that he's just trying to help her think a bit more rationally? Maybe he ACTUALLY CARES about HER and doesn't want to lose her due to huge amounts of debt that he won't be able to pay if they get hitched?</p>
<p>No of course not... he just wants to control her. </p>
<p>:eyes rolling:</p>
<p>jmo math guy...i would confront her about the situation. Tell her exactly what you posted here...</p>
<p>Tell her that you want to get more serious and you're ready to settle down. She has to understand that before you take the relationship any further you have to know the financial situation of both parties and figure out what the plan is.</p>
<p>It's hard for me to speculate here because I don't know how much you really love your gf...if she's the one... she's the one... regardless of how much debt she's in. However, if you're still unsure or if the relationship was never really stable...think about temporarily distancing yourself from her.</p>
<p>As I have noted many times here, taking on large college debt seriously limits choices following graduation and can have other serious unintended consequences. In my estimation the costs of high debt are far more than financial because the choice is rarely so stark as that of attending or not attending college.</p>
<p>And what are some of the consequences? Being unable to pursue graduate/professional school studies because even in principle is not due those interest costs are compounding and qualifying for grad loans will be more difficult if even possible. Feeling a need to limit post grad job choices based on salary considerations. Deferring marriage, purchase of that first house or starting a family. Returning to the "nest" because cost of apartment living is not doable. And of course the biggest risk of all is the fact that financial stress is a major factor in failed relationships and marriages. No college choice is worth that cost!</p>
<p>I do not presume to know the details of the relationship between the OP and his girl friend. But if they are truely in love and would otherwise be able to create a wonderful life together, how could the CHOICE of attending NYU ever be considered a good choice if other options are available?</p>
<p>Our son is on track to graduate with a BS/MS degree with $50,000+ dollars in the bank. Endless options are available to him in several years. He could take any job at any salary in any city. He could buy a house and begin building real estate equity at day one. Relationship/family choices are free of those oh so unromantic choices. He could choose to take a year off to travel or even take a stab at a startup business.</p>
<p>And if unencumbered choice is one definition of freedom, who would choose the cede their personal freedom to a name on a diploma? But many students/families do make this choice because they are facing an emotional choice in the present and failing to look rationally 4-10 years into the future. And the cost of the rational initial choice is not necessarily a significant one such as Cornell vs community college. In our son's case it was a choice between a Cornell and Case/RPI/state flagship honors college.</p>
<p>I understand that it is hard for many students to look rationally into the future when they are looking at the fat envelope from their "Dream" college. But that is where we parents need to offer a more detached long term view to help them in this choice. Sadly many parents are as emotionally plugged into the decision as their student is.</p>