NYU debt. Please Advise.

Parents Forum
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<p>latetoschool:</p>

<p>I see your point. But what I haven't told you is that she HAS told me a little bit about her situation - enought to get me concerned?</p>

<p>Is it wrong for me to use public information to "fill in the blanks"? Everyone would have a different opinion I suppose. Do I feel like a creep? No way. Do I feel it is unnecessary? Yes I do.</p>

<p>I do agree with you that the "right" person "for me" would freely share all information. I wouldn't be doing all of this if I didn't think it may be worth to help move fwd in the relationship.</p>

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<p>Amen acinva, if you go through back posts, as this thread sparked me to do, you can see that you're right on target. </p>

<p>Latetoschool, wasn't some guy stalking your daughter? How did that relationship pan out? And late, I really would advise you to check out, by any honest possible means, any guy you're serious about. Theree are a lot of dishonest people out there. In your posts you talk about several homes so I assume you're a women with resources. That makes you a target for the dishonest. Self protection warrents some poking arround. However, it will do you no good to know the value of someone's house because people like MG's gf have most probably taken all their equity out.</p>

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<p>I think the one thing that I'm really starting to internalize here is that we DO have different natures, different ways of looking at the world, different ways of making decisions, etc. A common value system is more than just "we are both nice people" and I am starting to see that. There are many nice people in the world, but it does not mean they share the same core values and are meant to share a lifetime together. </p>

<p>It is clear to me that I have major TRUST issues with her, which is probably why I'm doing this. And the issue is with ME, not HER. I think she really trusts me. </p>

<p>Duh! I know this is NOT a good thing. I think I'm starting to wake up to the real issue here is that I just don't trust her to make "good" decisions according to MY world view. Not saying she is wrong - it just does not mesh with my value system well.</p>

<p>Sooo, I do think many productive insights came about my "snooping" around. But you see, that is what I do. I need to come to terms with facts. If I don't know about something, or I am confused, I ask for other opinions. And the opinions I listen to most are the ones who are living the path I want to live. </p>

<p>If I don't do this, who can I ask? I think this is MUCH better than gossipping with co-workers, friends, family, etc. I have really tried hard to preserve her identity, mine, etc. I know this is private stuff, but it's not like I'm disclosing her (or me) to the world.</p>

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<p>I realize that many of these topics are probably best to discuss if you are planning for the "long term" - ie marriage. But if you don't know about this sort of stuff beforehand, how can you know if you even want to discuss marriage? I see a bit of the "chicken or the egg" issue here.</p>

<p>Ideally, you would get to build a relationship on trust, a common value system, faith, etc. I suppose you should be very comfortable with these core pillars of a relationship, so that you are not "shocked" when it comes to things like Debt disclosure.</p>

<p>I found the following article to be eye opening:</p>

<p><a href="http://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/FL2003-03.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://extension.usu.edu/files/publications/FL2003-03.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>MG, you see how divisive this matter is between total strangers on this thread, right? One person thinks AriesAthena is bitter and angry; I find her to be totally balanced, rational, correct, and exactly right on target. How much harder then is it between two persons who have an emotional involvement, and an intimate relationship? Given that, it is going to be nearly impossible for you to receive credible, useful advice here, beyond what has already been offered. </p>

<p>None of us can credibly offer anything that might be useful to you re the subject of progressing towards marriage in this situation. </p>

<p>I understand your need for facts. Why not take some of the advice that has already been offered (see a financial counselor with or without her; date others; get some distance and perspective), act on it, and come back in a few weeks to get an update and exchange of information?</p>

<p>Because right now you're still drilling the internet for information, and all the "facts" in the world you're unearthing in that direction cannot satisfy you because they're untethered to precise person you're most concerned about: your girlfriend. </p>

<p>And also, talk to some trustworthy person in real life. It can be a counselor, financial advisor, religious leader, mentor - doesn't matter. It is helpful if you can find someone who has been in a stable, happy marriage for a very long time - those tend to be the people who can give the very best possible advice, in my opinion.</p>

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<p>I completely agree. I'm not a man of words, but rather actions. I do pay little attention to what people say, and a lot more to what they do. But then again, this is a hard thing to do and enforce at all times. </p>

<p>My gf knows this as well. Words come cheap in most cases. So many hollywood stars say, "I love you, I want to be with you forever," on the alter - but then they are seperated after 3 months! Yikes! I guess they can always say, "I'm sorry!" LOL!</p>

<p>I try to be consistent in both speach and action. Not saying I'm perfect, but I make it a priority. My concern is that my gf seems to have many inconsistencies, which worries me. e.g. Words: "I would really like to be a stay a stay at home until children are at least 5...this is REALLY important to me." Action: "I'm taking out student loans to the level that this will not make this a reality."</p>

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<p>Bobby, no one of my acquaintance or relation has ever been stalked, but, if they had been, or if they should be in the future, there are many civil and criminal remedies available. </p>

<p>Healthy modern relationships are constructed on communication, trust, and a willing exchange of information. Drilling into other people's personal information isn't appropriate, and it isn't done.</p>

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<p>I'd like to learn more about this. Does anyone know how I can get in touch with one? Where do I start? Is this normal counseling with a financial twist? Can a normal counselor do this?</p>

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<p>MG, your bank might be a good starting place. Outside of that, you'll be pleased to know that listings are all over the internet, which means you'll have no trouble at all finding several. :)</p>

<p>However, please don't sign any contracts, or even be tempted to give anyone any money or pay a fee, no matter how tempting. At this point, you just want to talk, and get guidance, and give yourself some room to think. If anyone pressures you to pay a fee, or to sign up for some product or service, walk out.</p>

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<p>I'd like to take my gf with me. Not sure what may be available at my bank. I'm still not clear on what type of person I should be targeting. I'm doing some searches online...</p>

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<p>Re: living $$.</p>

<p>Your math, not mine. 1.5 years for $17,000? Wow, you were just saying that it's $15,000/nine months + summer + one more semester. </p>

<p>Interest is DEFERRED only throughout school. That's the definition of "deferring" something - it is done eventually, just not at the moment. Once she graduates (or w/in 9 months), she starts paying interest. </p>

<p>Still unclear on what you expect her to do. Drop out of NYU? Transfer somewhere else and start all over again? Do the math on all of those options.</p>

<p>--
LateToSchool - geez, haven't you figured it out? If you have had ANY negative experiences with guys, you're incapable of making rational comments on this thread. You're a bitter man-hater.</p>

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<p>MG have been following all this from beginning, when I agreed NYU could infllict enormous debt. She can't drop out of NYU now --that would be the worst decision. If you care for her you will work this out, openly. If this is going to cause you to break up with her, she deserves better. Finding someone to love is harder than paying off this debt. Just see a financial counselor and stop driving youself so insane over this. I hope this is the worst problem you ever have in your life --if so you will be a lucky man.</p>

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<p>It"s clear that late and aries are of like mind and few others here see the world their way</p>

<p>Late, are you saying that you did not seek opinions here when you felt your daughter's boyfriend controlled and stalked her? You seemed determined it was your duty to end that relationship!</p>

<p>No aries it's not everyone it's you! Your posts send a certain message. You are defensive in a heightened way. Clearly, you choose to see the worst in men as does your cohort late. The diatribe about the probably innocent guy who was controlling and stalking her daughter....well, read for yourself. Your choice, your life. Hard to think either of you will end up in happy relationships. Maybe it's time to rethink things. Check out prospects so you don't waste time on inappropriate men. If they past the test let down your guard and try to seek a real partnership. Or stand on your silly high horse and keep your little secrets and end up with pathetic men who don't know better than to care.</p>

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<p>Math_Guy,</p>

<p>My boyfriend and I have been together for a little over two years and while we don't know what the future may hold, we're talking about marriage and all that comes with it. Your girlfriend's actions seem a little fishy to me. Of course I don't know the complete situation and don't pretend to but her unwillingness to talk about her finances seem to me as if she's putting a huge stop sign in your relationship. I'm going off to college next year and you can be sure that my boyfriend knows exactly how much it will cost, how much I can expect in scholarships/financial aid, how I'm going to finance summer internships, and costs associated with graduate school. Yes, for the time being, none of this affects him, but if we're getting married after I graduate from college like we're planning to, then yes, my debt (or lack thereof) does affect him. With common property laws and whatnot, my $100k debt becomes his worry too, he ends up footing more of living expenses as I try to pay it off, we're limited in where we can go and what jobs we can take, and so on and so forth.</p>

<p>I understand your concern but I'm not really sure what you can do about it. She doesn't seem to want to talk to you about finances and nothing you can do to change that. I know you want to stay in this relationship but you aren't fresh out of college or something and have tons of time to figure stuff out. I guess my advice to you would be to keep your options open but at the same time maintain communication with your current gf. You could meet other people (you'd never know who may come along) but of course you still haven't completely breached ties with your gf. It may be best to just take a break, be friends, and see what she does after she graduates to deal with her huge debt.</p>

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<p>Bobby,</p>

<p>That was absolutely immature and unnecessary. Your cruelty is more telling of you than of anyone else on these boards.</p>

<p>A bad relationship or two does not mean that I am forever banned from delivering opinions on other people, contrary to what you may think. MathGuy's tone and actions are not those that I expect to see - and do see - out of men. I've dated and befriended many men who have a lot more faith and security in their significant others than MathGuy has. I go to school where 90% of the students are taking out loans - most of them very significant - for their degrees. None of the men I've dated in law school - most of whom have little or no debt (either not law students or parents are paying tuition) have felt the need to grill me about my finances. There is an educated reason why I think that MathGuy's attitude is a problem: I've seen better.</p>

<p>Only a completely deranged person would equate, "Most men don't do this, because they are really decent people," with "Aries hates all men." </p>

<p>You are BEYOND illogical. </p>

<p>According to you, the only way that I would not be a "man-hater" is if I express unqualified approval of all male action. </p>

<p>Many posters have commented that I've brought up thought-provoking points. The fact that some of my relationships have not been good does not undermine this. My forthrightness about my past should not undermine what I'm saying - only the psychotic people in the world do not understand that personal experience makes someone more insightful, not less.</p>

<p>I've dated many men who are not controlling. I've dated exactly ONE who reminds me of MathGuy. Last time I checked, that makes me somewhat qualified to distinguish between good behaviour and bad behaviour. I've seen good and bad. He reminds me of "bad." How is this bitter? </p>

<p>I'm friends with most of my exes - good enough friends to travel together, to enjoy their company and the company of their fiancees/wives/girlfriends, and make thousand-mile trips to visit. They think highly enough of me as girlfriend material to fix me up with their friends. </p>

<p>How the hell that makes me a bitter man-hater is beyond me. </p>

<p>The other, obvious alternative is that you are using the age-old misogynist technique of silencing a strong woman by, "You're a man-hater." Dahlin, if you're going to be a dinosaur, at least be a creative dinosaur. Or a dinosaur whose points remotely connect to reality. Or at least a humourous dinosaur. Really, if you're throwing material from 1953 at me, give me a laugh. </p>

<p>Your attacks on me are revolting. I am NOT the first person to point this out. SweetNY had no idea why I was being attacked. You've said that I only attract unemployable men. You say that I hate men. You say that I'm bitter...</p>

<p>...yet I'm supposed to believe that I'm the one with the problem, because your only response to logical points (case in point: "MathGuy, what do you expect your girlfriend to do? Drop out of school? Transfer? Finish with the debt?") is ad hominem attacks. </p>

<p>In reality, I'm a warm woman who has high standards of all people; standards which people in my life meet. Standards of decency, honesty, and kindness towards others. I've dated many men - all of whom would be downright shocked at your description of me. My boyfriend, contrary to your psychoanalysis of me, is incredibly successful, warm, and caring. It is really a joy to have people like that in my life, albeit long-distance. There are people who make me want to be a better person; he's one of them. </p>

<p>Oh, horrible man-hater am I. ;)</p>

<p>Long story short... shove it. I don't deserve your crap and I don't think that MathGuy's girlfriend deserves a man who doesn't want her as is but doesn't want to leave her, either. If that makes me a "man-hater" in your eyes, fine.</p>

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<p>Aresathena -- Me thinks thou dost protest too much.............</p>

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<p>Ah! The eternal answer to anything you don't like.</p>

<p>So far we have, "Any woman who says that some guy is acting badly is a man-hater" and "Gosh, why would you be upset when total strangers bash your character with impunity?"</p>

<p>Get a few new lines, guys.</p>

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<p>Ariesathena-
Way to go.
I agree with you on most of your points, actually (ok, ok, go ahead, say whatever you want about me, everyone). And even if I didn't I would at least attempt to politely disagree rather than attacking you personally. I think posters who need to attack people rather than their arguments should refrain from posting.</p>

<p>I don't think the OPs fears/concerns are necessarily wrong or unwarranted. I probably wouldn't have made the choices that he says his girlfriend has. However, I also wouldn't want to date someone who expects me to do things the way he thinks is appropriate, clearly doesn't trust my judgement, and doesn't share my values (seems like the situation).</p>

<p>I think, like many others have said, that the fundamental issues run deeper than the loans, but are more about communication, trust, and compatibility. From what you have told us, I think these problems may prove to be too large for your relationship to continue. But I don't know you, or the girl, or anything other than what I have read here.</p>

<p>That said, I find the "shake up" language disturbing myself, even though I know you didn't mean physically. I wouldn't want a guy who considered it either necessary or appropriate to shake me up in any way, even emotionally. And I'm glad to see that MG has backed off this statement. Still, I worry about more seemingly mild statements, like "I've already told her that I want to see if she can be "independent" for a while after she finishes school."</p>

<p>It's clear that you feel that she needs to prove herself to you. I couldn't be in a relationship like that. Can she? Can you?</p>

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<p>This thread seems to have gone really far afield of anything that might possibly be of use to MG in figuring out his situation. Attacking people who offer opposing points of view isn't useful or productive, or even very interesting to read. And it certainly isn't very inviting to other people - specifically, some of the parents who are just returning from college drop offs - and who might offer fresh perspective and post in response to MG's original question.</p>

<p>Instead of attacking Ariesathena, me, others who have strong opinions that may not be in agreement, why not simply accept that in cyberspace, just like in real life, people are going to have very different opinions on issues, and confine responses to something that might actually be of use to the OP?</p>

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<p>I like your advice. Thanks.</p>