<p>I don't want anybody to take this the wrong way. I cannot imagine anything at all worse than losing a child through suicide. I have seen it and t the most heart rending thing imagnable but this is a dog bites man story at NYU which has been plagued by student suicides for several years now.</p>
<p>I don't necessarly blame the school. It could just be happenstance, but maybe they ought to take a look at who they are admitting, what kind of kid applies, and what kind of support systems are in place</p>
<p>I agree that this is an awful tragedy. The post on suicides is helpful. I know colleges are trying to educate students to recognize unusual behaviors in their peer group.</p>
<p>I don't fault the school. They read essays as well as letters of recommendations. If an applicant refers to overcoming a mental health issue, I don't think they should be rejected by a college. I would hope that parents with concerns might limit their child to a local U. It seems like magical thinking to hope that a child will not find the first semester at college to be stressful.</p>
<p>Higherlead....NYU certainly HAS addressed this issue. First, let's remember the total population of NYU and the total number of suicides in that population over, say, a five year period, is not significantly higher than in a group of college age students that age. It is not really about who NYU admits. By the way, my other child attends an Ivy and her teammate just committed suicide about ten days ago. </p>
<p>NYU closed off all balconies in dorms and other locations. I believe there was an alarm system in place to the door that led to the roof of that dorm as well. They have established The Wellness Exchange (which is always open....24 hour private hotline) for this purpose (overall health and mental health of the students). They even have a depression screening day. They offer a wide range of counseling services. During orientation, there is a wonderful original (written by students) musical put on by students under the direction of Liz Swados (Tony nominated playwright/composer), which every incoming freshmen at NYU must see, that presents issues such as suicide, drugs, sex, and other safety or wellness issues that is very well done (called The Reality Show) that is also an attempt to address all students about these issues and where to get help. NYU definitely has taken measures to address this concern. </p>
<p>As far as who to admit.....applicants to any college are not obligated to reveal their depression, for example. So, someone with mental health issues can be enrolled and MANY are at MANY colleges. Then, for SOME students, the transition to college can exacerbate mental health issues and they have difficulty dealing with things. I don't think that is unique to NYU. One thing specific to NYU is also adjusting to life in a city, and all that entails. There are support systems in place at NYU. They have made physical changes at buildings to avoid jumping incidents. But no matter what any college does, there are young people today who do commit suicide and some of them attend college. It is not NYU's fault. The girl I know who just committed suicide did so at her own home and was found by her parents. I don't' blame them, just like I don't blame NYU. By the way, they took her out of school to help her get treated. Still happened.</p>
<p>I couldn't agree with Higherlead more. People had a fit about 3 suicides this year at Stanford. </p>
<p>Didn't NYU have 8 suicides several years ago? I agree the school needs to very seriously looking at this terrible issue.</p>
<p>In the school year 2003-2004, there were five suicides at NYU.</p>
<p>Soozie, I am thrilled to have been wrong. There is a DVD about the NYU suicides that claims 6. I think what makes them so horrific is the manner in which they occurred.</p>
<p>It is definitely horrific. Sometimes, when one young person commits suicide, it can affect others who are on the verge. </p>
<p>I do know that NYU has gone to lengths to secure areas to avoid that "method"....like the balconies on all dorms are not accessible. I don't know what was up at UHall but I read that alarms go off at the doors that exit to the roof and so I am GUESSING that maybe the alarm sounded but when help arrived, it was too late. </p>
<p>Again, there is a population of 50,917 undergrads and grads at NYU. I would expect in a population of teens and young adults of that size, that there may be a few suicides. </p>
<p>It is incedibly tragic. As I said, my own child was touched by the suicide of a friend a week ago from her college. I knew her and it is an incredible loss.</p>
<p>I've noticed that student suicides at the smallish Ivys my kids attend or attended that are reported in the school newspaper have been kids who were removed from school and living at home at the time. Sometimes they have been out of school a year or two. It's possible that a closer knit living situation, small size, high level of staffing, etc. may help to spot depressed kids. I know that two of my son's friends were bared from school for a term or more to seek help. I realize that the school was looking after its own interests as well as the students'.
At larger urban schools these kids may not be as easily detected. Here at the University of Chicago I recall students shooting themselves in the dorms and library, jumping off the dorm roof, lying down on the tracks, etc. When my kids visited Columbia University I had the feeling that it would be easy to be anonymous there. Probably unfair on my part.
I have no idea whether the eventual suicide rate is any different for the students detected and pushed off campus than for the undetected ones at larger schools. People in pain find a way out.</p>
<p>This is always so sad, and I don't think it can be blamed on any one university. Maybe there is more that NYU can do to seal off their rooftops, to make sure RAs are well trained, and that counseling is available quickly and easily to students who reach out. I'm sure that every time this happens a university takes a good hard look at those issues, at least I hope so. But this does happen pretty much everywhere.</p>
<p>
[quote]
When my kids visited Columbia University I had the feeling that it would be easy to be anonymous there. Probably unfair on my part.
[/quote]
I think it is easy to be lonely at Columbia. I don't think it's easy to be anonymous. Students live in campus housing all four years. The campus is so small that it's hard not to run into people you know. First and second year students are in at least one small, discussion-based core class with the same group of students and teacher all year long. There is not only a good counseling center, but a satellite center in one of the first year dorms. RAs are trained to call security immediately if a student makes a suicide threat and security will escort them to the hospital for overnight observation, whether they want to go or not. Nevertheless, there was a suicide as I recall either last year or the year before right before graduation, when a senior jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge.</p>
<p>I recently transferred out of NYU to UNC, which is closer to my home. I still have an NYU email account, however, and that is how I learned of the NYU student's suicide. Because I have so recently left NYU, this issue has been on my mind heavily since I read John Sexton's message to the NYU community. </p>
<p>I have to praise NYU--I think they're really doing what they need to. Not only are the buildings incredibly secure, but the Wellness Center is constantly emphasized, starting in the Reality Show and continuing with emails, fliers, etc. throughout the year. However, I think that it is difficult to end up helping every single student with these issues, as some try to hide it. They don't go to the Wellness Center or call the hotline, even though they know it's there. They don't talk to their RA's, even though they know they're there. Some people do not like to ask for help, even when the problem becomes large and overwhelming. What can you do? Perhaps the answer is education of all individuals to keep a bit of an eye on each other, to learn what behaviors or signs to look for. But again, this is difficult during the first month of the freshman year of college. College, for most students, is a bigger social setting than they've previously experienced, and it takes time to make friends or friendly acquaintances who would spend enough time with someone to notice warning signs. I would say that that is where family comes in, but most families aren't close by their college-bound children. So who can you really blame? I think no one at all. I do believe that education about suicide and other issues is the most effective way of preventing many of these situations, but I recognize that there is only so much a community can do if someone is determined to hide their struggles. </p>
<p>It feels terribly saddening to know that someone can feel so much pain that they would rather escape life altogether than seek help.</p>
<p>I can only hope that students will learn from, rather than copy, such actions.</p>
<p>cheesesandwich... Your post is very mature and a thoughtful rersponse to this kind of tragedy where there are no easy answers. I think the school is doing all they can and many parents and friends do what they can. It is a deep problem that is difficult for many of the reasons you mention. Not all these young people seek out the services that are there. And not all show warning signs that are obvious. Some do. But even for those who do, tragically they sometimes find a way to do this if they are intent on it, despite intervention and treatments. It is so very sad to lose anyone, but especially young people in the prime of their lives. And it does make those around them feel helpless because no matter how much they had reached out, it may not have saved them from taking such drastic actions. </p>
<p>Good luck to you at your new school.</p>
<p>First, and foremost, I think that this post is interesting,</p>
<p>however this is a frequent occurrence at many schools, its just that in other schools , students don't jump off the tall roofs that NYU has as frequently.</p>
<p>Reason being that of course being in a large city, with many students it makes the news. Someone at Washington square news put the news in brief, as they didn't want "encourage" other people do the same.</p>
<p>What is interesting is this student was wealthy and had everything, however he overreacted because his gf had broken up and of course, just because you have money or status doesn't mean you know how to handle certain situations/ OR won't overreact.</p>
<p>Of course I am not speculation because I don't know the full story.</p>
<p>I am deeply sorry for this family's loss. I am sure that they did all that they could.
I believe that the system needs to be changed. College students are not adults. Their thinking is not developed before their early 20s. The privacy laws need to be changed. As long as parents are providing financial support, they should have access to all student records. Universities and colleges need to move toward active monitoring and intervention. Many students hide their illness very well--only those who know them well would notice a change. A greater awareness of the symptoms of mental illness might help peers and professors recognize what is going on and get help for the student.</p>
<p>Please note that when you compare suicide rates of college students to their same age non-college-attending peers, the rate is actually lower (about 50% lower). One suicide is one too many, but colleges do take mental health seriously and provide numerous supports for students.</p>
<p>We all know that there are thousands of deaths per year due to suicide and this includes individuals of every age. We know that any large university is likely to have several a year. We also know that some kids have tragic deaths due to unusual illnesses such as meningitis or MRSA. We know murders and other serious crimes can and do occur within college communities.</p>
<p>I am not sure I understand why some people feel the need to post these events on the CC forums. Maybe these discussions belong in the Cafe. When we hear of these events, we all feel sympathy and concern, but we are already constantly bombarded with sensationalism for the news media. I rarely click on these threads or add my sympathies or comments. In the future I intend to be more diligent in these efforts.</p>
<p>I think these threads bring out parental natural anxiety, but they aren't fruitful in doing any more than that.</p>
<p>I don't know that most of us <em>need</em> to be any more worried about all the potential things that could happen to our children than we already are, and thus, I tend to agree with Edad, and will share his diligence.</p>