<p>No…go back and read the first sentence of her post and please learn not to make any assumptions about your financial aid situation based on another student’s experience at a different school. It sounds like your sister went to a FAFSA-only school. Schools that require NCP information are not FAFSA-only…they also use the CSS Profile (as NYU does) or an institutional form to collect data about both biological parents (and their spouses, if any). All of that information is then used to determine the EFC at that school.</p>
<p>@sk8ermom How can they determine that my mom will not pay for me, or if I haven’t seen her since I was born? I have, but I’m just saying who’s to say that she just isn’t or is a part of my life, to the point where they would need her info?</p>
<p>NYU will want to look at the incomes of both biological parents, plus their current spouses, if any. If you did not include all of those incomes when you ran their net price calculator then the numbers you gave in your first post will not be accurate. </p>
<p>(By the way, since this is the first year schools have had to provide NPCs it remains to be seen just how accurate they are. I’m expecting to hear a lot of complaints next spring when this year’s applicants get their actual packages.)</p>
<p>Sometimes people can get waivers from schools that allow them not to include the NPCs income, but these are exceptions and you should not count on it at all. They are meant for people whose parents have completely abandoned them since birth, or are incarcerated, etc. If you misrepresent this to the school it is fraud. Don’t go there.</p>
<p>Schools don’t care if your non-custodial parent doesn’t want to contribute.</p>
<p>As others have said, it’s not easy to obtain waivers of parental information. It generally takes signed statements from third parties (ie. clergy, guidance counselors, etc.) attesting to the fact that you have no contact with the parent, receive no support from them, etc. This clearly doesn’t apply to you, so it’s a non-issue.</p>
<p>This is what it says as far as income on NYU’s net price calculator:</p>
<p>"What is your household income?</p>
<pre><code>Include income earned by yourself and your parent(s).
Include income from work, child support, and other sources.
If your parent is single, separated, or divorced, include the income for the parent with whom you live.
If the parent with whom you live is remarried, include both your parent’s income and his/her spouse’s income."
</code></pre>
<p>It also says other things in the calculator about your household, never the other parent, I’m not trying to argue the fact that you have to include the NCP income, but NYU’s website must be out of date.</p>
<p>If your sister went to a state school, they only require the income and the assets of the parent that your sister lives with, not both parents.</p>
<p>However, NYU requires, the FAFSA, which uses the federal methodology to determine if you are eligible for Federal Aid, the CSS profile and the Non-custodial profile, which looks at the income/assets/business expenses of your dad, your mom and your stepdad.</p>
<p>Starting this year, since NYU is using the profile and non-custodial profile this means that a student is probably going to get less in need based aid than they had in the past (which was not good to begin with) because NYU is now taking a deeper look at the parent’s income and assets.</p>
<p>he FAFSA is the free application for federal student aid.</p>
<p>To apply for student financial aid from the federal government based on the information submitted by the student and their parent(s). The FAFSA determines your eligiblity to receive federal aid : pell grants, seog grants (if applicable to your school) federal work study and federal student loans (subsidized/unsubsidized stafford loans and perkins loans). The FAFSA is required by all public colleges and universities and an overwhelming number of private schools require the FAFSA (some in addition to other FA forms).</p>
<p>There will be a big difference between the EFC numbers your get for the FAFSA which only determines your eligibility for federal aid (pell grants and loans) and the CSS profile which is what the college uses to determine how they are going to distribute their institutional funds .</p>
<p>If you attend a profile school, they use a combination of both the federal and institutional methodologies. </p>
<p>At minimum you file the FAFSA (at almost every school) to determine your eligibility for federal aid (Pell/ seog grants, stafford and perkins loans). Most public univeristies will just require the fafsa (the exception may be UVA, UNC- CH, Mich and a few others which may require their own forms)</p>
<p>The CSS profile is used at different colleges that distribute their own institutional aid (Many of these schools have much deeper pockets).</p>
<p>Many schools that use a federal methodology to determine EFC will require only the FAFSA. Schools that use an instutional methodology or a combination of the 2 will require the CSS profile or their own FA forms.</p>
<p>Differences between the IM and FM models are</p>
<p>IM collects information on estimated academic year family income, medical expenses, elementary and secondary school tuition and unusual circumstances. FM omits these questions.</p>
<p>IM considers a fuller range of family asset information, while FM ignores assets of siblings, all assets of certain families with less than $50,000 of income, and both home and family farm equity.</p>
<p>FM defines income as the “adjusted gross income” on federal tax returns, plus various categories of untaxed income. IM includes in total income any paper depreciation, business, rental or capital losses which artificially reduce adjusted gross income.</p>
<p>FM does not assume a minimum student contribution to education; IM expects the student, as primary beneficiary of the education, to devote some time each year to earning money to pay for education.</p>
<p>FM ignores the noncustodial parent in cases of divorce or separation; IM expects parents to help pay for education, regardless of current marital status.</p>
<p>FM and IM apply different percentages to adjust the parental contribution when multiple siblings are simultaneously enrolled in college, and IM considers only siblings enrolled in undergraduate programs.</p>
<p>The IM expected family share represents a best estimate of a family’s capacity (relative to other families) to absorb, over time, the costs of education. It is not an assessment of cash on hand, a value judgment about how much a family should be able to use current income, or a measure of liquidity. The final determinations of demonstrated need and awards rest with the University and are based upon a uniform and consistent treatment of family circumstances.</p>
<p>Except in the most extraordinary circumstances, Colleges classifies incoming students as dependent upon parents for institutional aid purposes, even though some students may meet the federal definition of “independence.”</p>
<p>The profile will take into consideration tuition for children attending high school. They may consider school expenses outside of high school for special needs children. They will consider unreimbursed medical expenses and taking care of elderly parents.</p>
<p>Students enrolling as dependent students are considered dependent throughout their undergraduate years when need for institutional scholarships is determined.</p>
<p>For institutional aid purposes a student may not “declare” independence due to attainment of legal age, internal family arrangements, marriage or family disagreements.</p>
<p>Your COA (cost of attendance) is tuition, room board, books travel expenses and some misc. expenses associated with attending college.</p>
<p>You need to look at the financial aid pages, not just the Net Price Calculator. The NPC is not a guarantee of costs or aid…it’s simply a quick estimating tool and was implemented this year by federal mandate. NYU isn’t going to feel the pain if students rely on it without checking their aid policies…families are. This is what they say regarding NCP info:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>[Applications</a> and Forms](<a href=“Forms”>Forms)</p>
<p>he CSS profile is not free. There are fees involved in filing.</p>
<p>You are charged an application fee of $9, plus $16 for each college or scholarship program to which you want information sent. A limited number of fee waivers are granted automatically to first-year, first-time citizen or eligible non-citizen applicants from low-income families, based on the financial information provided on the PROFILE</p>
<p>I don’t have any financial information, which I know is what you’re looking for, but I was in a similar situation to you when I was looking at colleges. NYU was my dream school, I was interested in Stern, I loved the city, but I just couldn’t make the numbers add up so I would be able to afford it. I wasn’t even interested in looking at other schools, but my parents convinced me to look around at more affordable options. I decided to go to my state school, and I am SO glad that I did. For one, I switched my major 4 times (the average college student switches 3 times). I know you think you know what you want, but a lot of times interests change around our age, and you may end up paying all that money for a future that you may not even want by the time you’re looking for jobs. Second of all, my parents pay half of all my expenses, so I am paying about $6000 per year. And that feels like a ton! I work 40 hours a week during the summer, and 30 during the school year, and ALL of my money goes towards paying that. I would be paying more than quadruple that for NYU, and I can’t even imagine that (I’m broke as it is!). And third of all, I absolutely LOVE my school. It has great sport teams and school spirit, I have wonderful friends, and it has a great business program (yes, after switching my major 4 times, I went back to business). Maybe some of those things don’t appeal to you, but know that there are more affordable options that will be a great fit for you. If you get top grades, even at a school with a worse program, companies are going to consider you. Plus, if you get a Masters from a great school it looks better than having your undergrad from a great school. And many jobs will pay for you to get your Masters, so you could find a job that will pay for you to get your M.B.A. at NYU. I know none of these things are what you want to hear, trust me I know. It is all my parents talked about when I was looking at NYU. But all that debt isn’t worth it. Even if you are approved with the loans to afford it, really consider taking on all that debt, because it’s not fun to pay it off. Just my advice.</p>
<p>kbecker, you do know that you don’t have to go to an undergraduate b-school to get a job in finance, right? You can major in any mathematically-heavy field and still have a decent shot at finance. In fact, most first-year financiers/investment bankers/management consultants do NOT have undergraduate business degrees.</p>
<p>You could go virtually anywhere with a great reputation and major in mathematics, economics, or statistics, and take to Wall Street.</p>
<p>Especially if you intend to stay in business - you will probably want to go back for an MBA after working for 2-5 years. MBAs are even MORE expensive than undergrad, and there is virtually no non-repayable aid available for it. Almost everyone who gets an MBA finances the entire thing with loans. You don’t want to borrow $100K+ for undergrad and then have to back to borrow $150K+ for grad school - even an MBA graduate from a top-tier school can’t easily pay back $250-300K+ debt. That’s med school level debt.</p>
<p>You’re making a lot of fallacies in your reasoning.</p>
<p>One, you’re concluding that NYU will actually give you $25K in aid. I’ve been kicking it on these boards for a while, and most of the posters in here have been here longer than me and are older, wiser, and more experienced than me. Believe them when they say it is not likely, at all. You will be lucky if they give you a quarter of the CoA in aid.</p>
<p>Second, you are making a lot of assumptions about what your parents could pay without actually talking to them. Ask them first. You may be surprised.</p>
<p>Third of all, you should know that averages (mean income) is sensitive to outliers. What that means is, let’s say you have 10 NYU alumni. 9 of them make $40K per year and 1 of them makes $200K per year. The mean of those salaries is $56,000 a year, but that’s $16K more than what you’re likely to make. Many schools (especially undergrad b-schools) use mean calculations because it makes the average salary look better than it is. Even if the mean was an accurate representation, remember that by definition, a mean of a normal sample means that 50% of the scores fall underneath it. You could very well make $50K, or $40K, in your first year out of school. What if you spend $110K in loans and then you don’t get a job on Wall Street? Contrary to your belief, a Stern degree does not ‘guarantee’ a Wall Street job.</p>
<p>Consider attending a top school that gives better financial aid and majoring in math, statistics, econ, or some other quantitatively oriented field. If you are really set on New York, consider:</p>
<p>Baruch College (a noted undergrad business school in NYC, and they have a finance major)
Any of the other noted CUNY colleges, like Hunter, City, or Lehman (they are great deals even for out of state students)
Columbia (if you have the stats, they may give you generous aid)
Barnard, if you are a woman (ditto, except it’s less competitive)</p>
<p>Also consider schools outside of NYC. I know you say you want the experience of living there, but plenty of young professionals move here after undergrad and adjust just fine. Look at Davidson, Wesleyan, Vassar, Hamilton, Harvey Mudd, Grinnell, Bates, Colby, Oberlin, Macalester, Colorado, Kenyon, Connecticut Colleges. As far as universities go, try Emory, Georgetown, Carnegie Mellon, University of Virginia, Wake Forest, Tufts, Brandeis, William & Mary, Rochester, Georgia Tech (which also has an undergraduate business program and is a bargan for OOS students), Case Western, Lehigh, Tulane (which also has a business major for undergrads).</p>
<p>And since you are so interested in business, consider Babson College, which is an undergraduate college focused on business.</p>
<p>I went to a non-Ivy, second-tier LAC in the South and I have some friends who went to work at Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Bank of America, JP Morgan, etc. They didn’t have finance degrees, either. All of these schools are higher ranked than my SLAC, and I’d imagine that there are substantial numbers of their alumni on Wall Street and in other big financial firms in other places in the country (because another thing - financial services aren’t limited to New York; other places may have just as many or more opportunities with lower costs of living and better quality of life. Living in NYC becomes a grind after a while.)</p>
<p>@julliet I never said Stern 100% guaranteed a job, I said it almost does, seeming as 98% of Stern undergrads attained jobs in finance within 6 months (Or it could be 9 months, don’t quote me on that.). Anyhow, thanks for the other colleges, my cousin’s fiance told me that I could definitely get into Lehigh, or Lafayette. I know you listed a lot of colleges, but a lot of them I have to rule out, because if I don’t go to school in NYC, I want to at least stick in the northeast. My cousin-in-law recruits for Northeastern University, and my Aunt said he could probably get me accepted there, I don’t know if that’s true, but I’ll be talking to him on Saturday. I know finance isn’t strictly in NYC, but I absolutely love NY, and I would love the city life, and Manhattan is one of the few places in the Northeast where that can be attained in a large city that’s relatively safe, other than Boston, which is where my cousin lives. A few more schools I’m considering are: Rutgers (probably last choice), Villanova, UPenn (Not likely, but obviously I’m considering it), TCNJ (I know a guy that got a job on Wall Street who went there), Lehigh, Lafayette, Northeastern, Fordham, Columbia (Again, not very likely). Also, maybe Stockton, and Penn State, I don’t really know how good their B-schools are. Do you think these schools are attainable given my situation?</p>
<p>I’m still not entirely sure why you are so set on NYC - you may love the city life, but given that you are probably 16-17 years old you haven’t seen much else outside of your sphere of being. There are hundreds of large cities across the United States. Perhaps I’m also jaded because I grew up here and I live here now, and it’s…a city. It has it’s annoyances and it’s good parts, but quite frankly I’m over it. But anyway, I wasn’t saying that you couldn’t live there, I was just saying that you could do your undergrad somewhere else and move there later.</p>
<p>That aside, though - I don’t know your stats so I don’t know what your chances are. I would say that if you believe you could get into a school like NYU, you could probably also get into Lafayette, Northeastern, and Fordham. Penn State is also on par, but being an OOS student you probably wouldn’t get much financial aid. If Columbia is a stretch, Penn will be too. Lehigh and Villanova are somewhere in the middle of those two groups.</p>
<p>@julliet I was saying as far as affordability, not whether I could be accepted at those colleges or not. I mentioned that both UPenn and Columbia would not be very likely. I want to live/work in New York for several reasons:
It’s where the [most] money is, if you play your cards right
As I mentioned, I love the city life, and New York, or at least Manhattan, is relatively safe compared to other cities like Chicago, Philly, Washington, etc.
Yes, I’m 15 years old, but I’ve been to 25 states, all of them East of the Mississippi, and I’ve been to the big cities in most of them. I’ve also lived in 3 different states in completely different parts of the country. I find New York (City) to be my absolute favorite, and I spend a fair amount of time there, living in New Jersey, to know what it’s like, obviously not as much as I would if I lived there, but more than some one who lives in, Wisconsin, for example.
Even now in my stage of life, I hate slow paced life, I love fast paced life. I hate it when there are no people around me, I feel comfortable in numbers and crowds. This reason may coincide with city life, but in my opinion it’s a reason of it’s own.
Again, this may coincide with city life, but I don’t really like nature, I like buildings. Some people may think that forests and nature are the epitome of beautiful, but I strongly disagree, I’ve lived in the midwest in a place where people basically think all there is on this earth is hunting, fourwheeling, and snowmobiling, as you can imagine I felt out of place, but nonetheless, I like the look of things that are modern, and man-made.
I know this may be a poor reason, but the food in New York has got to be without a doubt the best out of any place I’ve ever been. Like I said, I go to NYC all the time, so I’ve had my fair share of the variety of foods, mostly in Manhattan. Food here in Jersey just doesn’t compare, except some pizza is similar, and food in the midwest, is just a joke compared to the east coast, let alone New York.</p>
<p>That is just a few reasons why I am so set on NYC.</p>
<p>you are young and this is why you probably got a pass from people who tried to help you on this board. </p>
<p>I don’t have as much patience as others on this board (I am from Midwest and bad food makes me cranky) and after reading what you wrote so far here is my take: I think you are open to committing a fraud in order to get as much financial aid as possible (i.e. mom paying dad under the table, telling NYU that you have no contact with NCP). This does not speak highly of your moral character. Your stated desire not to be in middle class combined with your willingness to commit a fraud actually makes you very similar to those on Wall Street who are responsible for some of the big financial messes in the past several year - so in a way you are perfect for Wall Street. </p>
<p>Anyway you have a goal and even though some people here ran numbers by you to show you how unrealistic your goal is, you choose not to listen to anyone (and for a person trying to get into finance it boggles my mind how you cannot understand those numbers). By all means, pursue your goal and get the loans. I wonder how you will be able to afford rent in Manhattan and all the wonderful food it has it offer while trying to pay off your student loan.</p>
<p>@lerkin I listened to those people, I’m just trying to be as optimistic as possible. I know that the numbers that most of the people told me look like just too much, and I know that. The way some people explained it wasn’t right, and they assumed that my parents would pay less than they (my parents) have told me they will. Once it got to the point where people explained the loans better, and the fact that both parents incomes were included, I started asking about other colleges, which I don’t think you noticed. I, too am from the midwest, or at least was born there, I was not putting down the entire midwest (I guess I should’ve specified that better, but I did say I came from a specific place in the midwest.) I was putting down the food in the area where I came from. I lived there for about 13 years, until recently. I loved Chicago food when I went there, St. Louis was great, but I came from the rural upper-midwest, and the only good food they had that was exclusive, was walleye to be honest. I’m sorry if I offended you.</p>
<p>As far as fraud goes, I was not planning on saying I had no connection to my mom, I was just wondering what the guidelines were as far as that kind of thing, because I can imagine how this could’ve impacted people in that predicament, I even stated that I’m not in that situation, contrary to what you seem to believe, I would not deliberately lie to a scholastic institution that, for all intensive purposes, determines my future, whether that be NYU, Harvard, or even a community college. However, mom paying dad under the table is not something that I am completely against, because if they did not ask about my mom’s information, how else would she pay him? I was not informed about all of these things, which was the point of this thread.</p>
<p>NYU is still my dream college, and though it probably won’t happen (without massive loans) if I stay in my current financial situation, as another person said in this thread, every one is entitled to their dream college. Also, I remain appreciative to those who told me that I can still go to other colleges and attain jobs in finance.</p>
<p>wait, did I see that your parents have NEVER been married? If so, how can they have a divorce? if that is true your dad could file for single parent custody. It sould increase your aid from NYU.</p>
<p>Stern is a tough school to transfer in, don’t count on it if you try to transfer. We went on a tour of NYU with a Sten student as the guide, he told me internally, it is almost impossible to get in Stern from CAS, externally, they don’t take many, it is difficult as well, but better than internal transfers. I understand NYC is attractive. but live in it is expensive and don’t ever think the COA is going to be as stated ~54K, cause your social life does not stop at tuition, room and board.</p>
<p>Also, although Ohio State isn’t cheap if you are out of state (although it’s definitely cheaper), that’s where I go and there is this program specifically for business students hoping to make it into Investment banking. I had a friend who was part of the program graduate with a degree in Finance last spring, and he is now working at JP Morgan in NYC. Here’s the link if you want to read about it at all: [Fisher</a> College of Business | Fisher Futures](<a href=“http://fisher.osu.edu/offices/career-management/student-resources/undergraduate/fisher-futures]Fisher”>http://fisher.osu.edu/offices/career-management/student-resources/undergraduate/fisher-futures). But even if you aren’t interested in OSU, point is I’m sure there are similar programs at most schools with halfway decent business programs. Here’s something like it from Baruch: [Baruch</a> College - Starr Career Development Center](<a href=“http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/careers/flp/flp_success.html]Baruch”>http://www.baruch.cuny.edu/careers/flp/flp_success.html). Don’t get caught up in the mindset that some schools guarantee you a certain career, and other schools will hold you back. Yes, getting a Wall Street job might be harder coming from a lower-ranked school, but it has been done. It might even be better to go into school with the mindset that you are working against the odds and you need to be prepared to work your a** off.</p>
<p>@artloversplus Yes my parents were never married, and therefore never divorced. Are you positive about how I can only list my dad and not mom if this is the case?</p>