<p>I also think an audition is not foolproof as it is brief, even though other factors like the application and recs are weighed. At many programs, there is a range of talent. Some programs employ cuts. NYU/Tisch does not have cuts. My D, when she was in the MT program (which was CAP21 at the time) would comment that there were some phenomenally talented kids in the class and some that were not as talented as those kids. There was a range. The very talented ones seem to be doing quite well so far since graduation. There are many kids at Tisch who received acceptances to many other BFA programs, my D included, and so it is not as if Tisch is accepting applicants who were unable to get into any other BFA programs! </p>
<p>Is Tisch perfect or the best? No. Is it for everyone? No. Was it a great fit for my kid? Yes. Did she pick Tisch over several other really fine BFA in MT acceptances? Yes. Did she have an amazing experience with wonderful varied opportunities? Yes. Is she working in the field professionally since graduation day? Yes.</p>
<p>^^^To that I’d offer. Who wants to be in a program where everyone is “the best” anyway? A range of talent also brings a range of personalities, experiences and interests. Perhaps the least talented person in the room works the hardest. Or throws the best parties. Or will end up being your best friend for life. It takes every kind of people (thank you Robert Palmer).</p>
<p>Just wanna add one more thing. Yes, my kid did CAP21, not NSB. Actually she did both CAP21 and ETW studios. However, my D has some familiarity with NSB which began after she graduated college. Last year, when the program just had freshmen, she was hired as the accompanist in the Vocal Performance classes taught one semester by Sutton Foster and one semester by Michael McElroy. So, she had every freshman in the class (there were four sections of about 15 kids in each section). She thought it was incredible who these kids got to work with! (both teachers were Broadway veterans) She also musically directed Assassins which was directed by Kent Gash who is the director of NSB and so just saying she thought well of the program and observed many talented up and coming kids who are current students there.</p>
<p>I would like to say that I spoke with my D and there are only 12 kids in her classes at NSB MT so that is a far cry from the number I heard of 18-22.</p>
<p>If other schools can hold classes with less then that school may have a large endowment and can not only offer smaller classes but also, scholarships. What they can’t offer on a regular basis is access to NYC and all that comes with that. </p>
<p>I am sure there is no perfect program but it is interesting to hear what “those in the business” are saying about the programs out there.</p>
<p>Ladies, I totally hear all of your points and do agree with them all! My D is not at the top of the talent pool either because as in all studios some kids might be stronger at dance, or vocal or acting. She loves her studio and NYU but she was just surprised that some students were accepted into NSB without much dance training. That is all I said. we do have to remember that what the auditions look for is potential-the end product -and not necessarily where the students are starting from. It is also the “fit” because I know some extremely talented kids that did not get into the program. As far as new students accepted, she happens to know a few as our high school often sends quite a few to the program. There are no complaints here and I am sorry if I upset either of you. I also agree that a good mix will produce a good class!</p>
<p>I agree that the dance background varies among admitted students. When my D was in Tisch/CAP21, for every dance class for each year in the program, the entire grade/class was divided into four different level sections and so advanced experienced dancers were in class with the same and likewise with less experienced dancers. </p>
<p>You did not upset me, btw and I welcome all opinions.</p>
<p>I’m also glad you clarified the number of students in the classroom for your D in NSB. While claydavis’ posts are good and certainly welcomed, let’s remember that he is not in NSB himself.</p>
<p>With regards to the question of the level of students that Tisch is accepting: I would add that another NSB student might look around at his/her classmates and be surprised that, although so-and-so is a terrific dancer she can’t quite belt out that note. Or that this other kid has an amazing voice but he wasn’t believable in his dramatic monologue. But isn’t that the whole point of why they are there? To learn and to improve on whatever skill that is not their strength – whether it be singing or dancing or acting?</p>
<p>I think with dance in particular, at most programs, there is a wide range of skill and experience. When my D applied to BOCO, she and I observed a dance class. At the time, I was a bit stunned that some of the students were quite beginnerish in their skills compared to what my D was used to in her dance studio back home. So, I don’t think this is unique at Tisch.</p>
<p>In my opinion, voice and acting are more important than dance. I am not diminishing dance and after all, my own kid grew up taking LOTS and LOTS of dance and was advanced in that area. But almost every MT job requires a great voice and acting chops and not every audition requires a dancer. Ensemble and chorus often requires strong dance skills. </p>
<p>My D is out of college. While she grew up dancing, she will never be a chorus girl, she says. She is 5’3". She has worked in music and theater since graduation day but has done MUCH less with dance than singing and acting.</p>
<p>^^^^Boca has changed tremendously when it comes to dance since 2005. Very few if any “beginners” have been admitted since 2007. And the beginners or intermediates now need to demonstrate natural ability. Not sure when Michelle Chasse was put in charge of MT dance (I believe 2006) but, she really impacted the place. In fact, she has a major say in who is the be admitted. </p>
<p>I also have to disagree with the importance you place on acting in a musical theater production. In my humble opinion, dance is more important as evidenced by the amount of casting calls of singers who can dance and dancers who can sing. Never seen a casting call for singers who can act yet. Acting in a drama absolutely. Being able to act in a serious musical agreed, but not in the vast majority of roles. Even Mary Poppins has to dance.</p>
<p>Michelle Chasse was at BOCO when my D visited and in fact, it was HER class that we observed and she chatted with us. However, as you know, now BOCO requires dance at the admissions audition. I’m just saying that at many well regarded MT programs, there is a range of dance abilities, and some are admitted who have been advanced dancers and some with minimal dance experience, even at BOCO and even since my D applied to college (I know a LOT of kids in this field…I advise many applicants and in fact, have had students admitted to programs, including BOCO in the last couple of years, who had just a tiny bit of dance training, not much). </p>
<p>Re professional theater…
Yes, OPEN CALLS do require either singers who dance or dancers who sing. My kid doesn’t attend open calls, not even the Equity Chorus Calls. For many EPA notices for ROLES, NOT ENSEMBLE, you have to be able to sing and act. For some shows, roles include dancing ability and for some, not. Yes, for many ensembles, you have to be able to dance. For roles, you have to be able to dance for some roles or shows and not for others. And for roles, you MUST be able to sing AND act.</p>
<p>I for one can barely sit through a musical when the lead sings extremely well but has absolutely no ability to connect to the material because they can’t act. I can go to concerts for that. On the other hand I have no problem forgiving Richard Burton, Richard Harris, Christopher Plummer and many others for their musical forays because they could make me believe the character I was watching and the story they were telling. In fact, sometimes I failed to even notice that they couldn’t sing nor dance. </p>
<p>Thanks for the clarification on the class size at NSB tutu17. Good to know. Also, in case you’re referring to me, I’m not at all upset with you either and appreciate your chiming in. We are in decision mode so I’m reading things pretty closely, questioning what I’m unsure of and trying to understand the context of the comments. Thanks for posting!</p>
<p>halflokum, agree with you that in musical theater, the importance for those playing roles, in particular, to be able to act. They have to be believable, not just have a great voice. That is what makes it different than merely a concert. </p>
<p>I think it is important to be able to sing, act, AND dance well. But I think in the general scheme of things, and for roles, more than maybe a chorus, being able to sing and act will be more important than dance skill. Some shows don’t even have a lot of dance. I’m not discounting dance, and particularly if you want to be in the chorus. But being able to sing and act are most important for many roles. Being a triple threat is ideal of course. I say this even with a kid who grew up dancing.</p>
<p>For many EPAs, you must sing and act before dance. For ECC, you can audition as a singer who dances or a dancer who sings. But for roles, the audition tends to first focus on singing, then acting, then dance in many cases, if dance is involved at all.</p>
<p>EPA stands for Equity Principal Audition and ECC stands for Equity Chorus Call. These are open calls but just for those who are Equity (my daughter is Equity). My D rarely attends as she doesn’t feel they are that worthwhile and she is too busy, but will go on auditions via an agent (which is an appointment, not an open call). </p>
<p>Anyway, an EPA is for roles. An ECC call is for ensemble/chorus…and it is either a dance or a singing call. An EPA usually requires one to sing and act and then maybe dance at a callback if the role requires dance (not all roles involve dance).</p>
<p>EPA are Equity Principal Auditions and ECC are Equity Chorus Calls. :)</p>
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<p>Agreed. It’s those kind of ‘schmacty’ performances that give MT a bad name, in my opinion. If one is unable to act the song, the chances of being cast are slim. I can think of lots of very successful MT stage actors who are not topnotch dancers but very few who are not good actors. Like Susan, I am not discounting the importance of dance training but there are so many musicals these days that do not call for extensive dance for the named roles, this shouldn’t come as a surprise.</p>
<p>Edited to add: Oops, Susan beat me to the punch. :)</p>
<p>I know the difference between the EPA and EPC and what a role is. My daughter has representation and is an active member of SAG/AFTRA/AEA and goes to EPA’s all the time. And yes she has to read for the part, sing for the part and dance for the part. She was recently called in for the lead role for Newsies and she was told by Telsey to bring 4 different types of dance shoes. As for as ROLES go, so few people actually go from UNKNOWN to ROLES. I would think the vast majority of people reading this website are not planning on going straight to stardom. </p>
<p>As far as boco dance admissions go, maybe Michelle was at Boco then but she probably was not in charge. Certainly not the important role she has since 2007. If you read my post carefully I said clearly that the applicant needs to DEMONSTRATE ABILITY. Something I would leave to Michelle to judge. Having minimal dance experience will definitely hinder your chances for acceptance at Boco where their focus is turning out triple threats.</p>
<p>There are many talented people who absolutely have the potential to get Broadway roles who will never be suited to typical dancing ensemble stints. </p>
<p>There is also such a thing as being too “dancery” to ever be cast in many roles.</p>
<p>It’s a big world - with plenty of places for singers who move! ;-)</p>
<p>I am not distinguishing the difference between ROLES and ensemble. I’m saying to have a successful career it is betters your chances to be a dancer rather then an actor especially in musical theater.</p>
<p>Of course if you are AMAZING at everything that’s optimal (as long as you can ditch your inner-dancer and make yourself seem as natural as Sutton Foster which is RARE!), but I find it far easier to think of strong singer/actors making solid MT careers than stronger dancers (aside from ensemble folks). Is there even a Gwen Verdon equivalent today?</p>
<p>I actually consider that a good thing, as there are so many talented performers who weren’t born with dancer’s bodies… and so many amazing characters to be played who would not be at all dancerish, either in look, age or style.</p>
<p>Also, there is a growing trend toward MT singer/actors finding work in film and TV. </p>
<p>If I were a young performer I’d shoot for singer/actor foremost unless I was a born dancer.</p>