NYU vs Fordham

[Skater_Girl]

<p>NYU was always my #1, but Fordham gave me a very tempting $$ package. For a prospective lawyer, which school would you choose?</p>

<p>NYU gave me loans and would cost 25k more to attend.</p>

<p>So basically: is NYU worth 25k more than Fordham?</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

[hmom5]

<p>Per year or over 4 years?</p>

[CIA]

<p>No school, in my opinion, is worth going 100k into debt. If it’s 25k for all four years, then you need to really think. As a prospective lawyer, realize law school ain’t cheap.</p>

[calmom]

<p>Fordham – law school is very, very $$$$$ – so the last thing you want to do is saddle yourself with a lot of undergraduate debt.</p>

[tranquil218]

<p>PLEASE do not tell me that you’re taking “pre-law” or something to that effect as a major. I’ve been a lawyer for over 25 years, and I can tell you right now that the ABA and the AALS HATE pre-law courses. You stand a far better chance of being accepted by majoring in something that you like rather than something you think a law school would like. I know people who’ve graduated from law school who have undergrad degrees in subjects like dance, English, and biochemistry.</p>

<p>That being said, law school will run you anywhere between $38K - $50K+ a year. If money is no object, go to NYU. However, be aware that the mere fact that you attended NYU as an undergrad will not guarantee you a slot at its law school. Same deal applies at Fordham - its law school is quite good and their undergrads do NOT get preferential treatment when applying.</p>

[mdoc]

<p>I would choose Fordham. It’s a very good school with what I would consider to be a much more caring administration than what you’ll find at NYU. Either will be well respected by law schools. NYU has a higher rating, but I don’t think it will matter for purposes of law school admissions and you’re going to need $$$ for law school, so don’t run up the debt now. FWIW, I’m a lawyer and my undergraduate majors were Accounting and Economics/Finance. I have no personal knowledge of the ABA and AALS hating pre-law courses, but you definitely don’t need to take them.</p>

[mousegray]

<p>Their locales are very different, even though they’re essentially in the same city (different borough). NYU is very tempting, being in the middle of what seems like everything, but $100K in debt (assuming you meant 25K/year) is a horrible way to start your work life. You will end up cursing the day you chose NYU if you go that route. Also, it’s not that hard to get into the city from the Fordham campus.</p>

[sybbie719]

<p>I agree with Calmom, Tranquil & mdoc that law school is expensive (after factoring in the cost of living while attending law school, it will be closer to 65-70k per year at law school). This coupled with undergrad debt, you will be in your mid 20’s with over 300k in debt, which can really affect how you will live for years to come.</p>

<p>With NYU Law being a top 5 and Fordham Law in the top 25, being a undergrad at neither school will give you an advantage as far as getting into their law school. In addition, neither school has really generous FA policies (NYU has some great golden handcuff scholarships for public service and Fordhams top scholarship is ~ 25K)</p>

<p>If you are thinking about law school, I would suggest purchasing and reading the following 2 books </p>

<p>Anna Ivey - THe Ivey guide to law school admissions
Richard Montauk- How to get in a top law school</p>

<p>The Montauk book the book is approximately 500 pages and gives a very comprehensive overview of the college process and discusses applications, essays, LSATs, majors, etc.</p>

<p>Chapter 8 of his book discusses Making the Most of Your Credentials, Montauk states:

Your specific major matters less than the type of major you choose. What matters is that you choose a serious major. Schools are leery of pre-professional subjects such as business, and those that reward performance talents such as acting. There are some majors that admissions counselors cringe at seeing; communications, criminology and pre-law (even though theoretically pre-law is not a major)
Any subject that requires serious analytical work and dedication attract at least a reasonable % of the best and brightest will meet with approval.</p>

<p>The ideal undergraduate record would thus include all of the following:</p>

<p>Top quality school</p>

<p>Demanding course load (no path of least resistance) advanced work in a second unrelated (to your major) filed is particularly helpful</p>

<p>Top grades throughout (with few courses taken pass/fail) but especially in junior & senior years</p>

<p>Courses requiring substantial reading, strong writing ability good research skills and analytical prowess</p>

<p>Courses developing useful substantial knowledge for your future legal field.</p>

<p>When posed with the question: What factors do you consider when evaluating an undergraduate record admissions officers at various law schools state :</p>

<p>What ever the major, there should be variety including some clearly demanding analytical courses. There is not set preparation for law school, but some majors may be of less value than others (for ex. Pre-law) I examine the undergraduate transcript very closely. I look at what the applicant has done both in and outside of their major- Faye Deal, Stanford</p>

<p>What we are looking for is both breadth and depth. We favor applicants who come to us from broad liberal arts education. They learn about human vision from the arts, how the world works from math and the sciences and the human condition from philosophy and history. We don’t want academic dilettantes however; we want applicants to have taken the most analytically rigorous courses in their field- Jim Mulligan, Columbia</p>

<p>Not all UGPAs are created =. Swat and William and Mary, for instance have refrained from inflating grades; their averages are between 2.8 & 2.9. At the other end of the spectrum, Stanford and Yeshiva have mean GPAs over 3.4- Mulligan, Columbia</p>

<p>The GPA number is just a starting point. Our first concern is how rigorous the course load has been. We look at academic letters of recommendation, which are particularly helpful if they address the difficulty of the course load ex: the grading policies of professors from whom the applicant took multiple courses. Other factors we c examine is whether there were substantial barriers to performance such as the need to work many hours per week- USC</p>

<p>I know what the strongest and weakest programs are at some 50 to 60 schools. At some smaller commonly seen schools (and programs) it can be helpful for the student to provide detailed information. –GWU</p>

<p>We see a # of pre-med students who did poorly as pre-meds but then did well in their next field. The key for them is to make sure they get out of pre-med early so they can fully demonstrate their talents.- UCLA

</p>

<p>Anna Ivey, former dean of admissions at U of chicago law school says this:</p>

<p>

Question:** I am a freshman in college who is interested in going to law school after college. My question is, is there a particular major that impresses law school admissions officers? Some people have told me that Political Science is the best. I am particularly interested in an English major but will choose whichever major is most appealing to law schools. Thank you! **</p>

<p>Anna’s Answer: Good for you for starting to plan ahead so early! Make sure to keep an open mind, though, because you don’t want to lock yourself into a particular career goal too early. It’s tough trying to make career-related decisions as a freshman. You wouldn’t start law school for another four years at the earliest, and who know what you’ll want out of life at that time? Think back to four years ago, when you were about fourteen, and think about how much you’ve changed since then, your priorities, your outlook, your maturity. Your personal development proceeds at lightening speed during your high school and college years. You’ll need those first couple of years in college to try out different subjects and disciplines and to think about different career paths. </p>

<p>Once you’re a junior and ready to pick a major, go with your heart. That will be the best outcome for you personally, and it will be the best outcome for you in terms of law school admissions (if that’s still what you want down the road) for two reasons: </p>

<p>First, while it’s true that the most popular majors for law school applicants are Political Science, History, and Economics, that phenomenon just reflects the popularity of those majors among people who end up applying to law school; it does not reflect a preference on the part of law school admissions officers. You absolutely do not have to pursue one of those majors to be a successful law school applicant; if anything, you might have a harder time distinguishing yourself from the pack as a Poli Sci major. </p>

<p>[Ask</a> Anna: What’s My Major?: Vault Law School Career Information](<a href=“http://www.vault.com/nr/newsmain.jsp?nr_page=3&ch_id=351&article_id=19222221&cat_id=2711]Ask”>http://www.vault.com/nr/newsmain.jsp?nr_page=3&ch_id=351&article_id=19222221&cat_id=2711)

</p>

[MidwestMom2Kids_1]

<p>If NYU will cost you $25K more per year I would say Fordham, Fordham, Fordham, Fordham (four times for the four years). </p>

<p>(It’s not like you are trying to decide between Princeton vs. UW Parkside. NYU and Fordham are both great schools.)</p>

[sybbie719]

<p>

NYU was always my #1, but Fordham gave me a very tempting $$ package. For a prospective lawyer, which school would you choose?</p>

<p>NYU gave me loans and would cost 25k more to attend.

</p>

<p>Testing for understanding…</p>

<p>Are you saying that:</p>

<p>The only FA NYU gave you was loans?</p>

<p>Fordham gave you a very $$ FA package.</p>

<p>The cost of attending NYU (with no $) is 25K more than the cost of attening Fordham?</p>

<p>if the answer to the above 3 questions are yes, unless this is a trick question take the $$ at Fordham and run.</p>

[mini]

<p>$100k in loans is a non-starter. $25k in loans over four years is doable.</p>

[tranquil218]

<p>Just wanted to add a thought to sybbie’s excellent post: do not, under any circumstances, think that the enormous debt you will occur in becoming a lawyer will be offset by an immediate job offer in the six figure range upon your graduation and bar admission. There are many firms that offer that type of salary to their first year associates. There are many more that will not. People who entered law school thinking that they were a shoo-in for a BigLaw job on Wall Street often wind up doing no-fault work for $40K a year. Doesn’t mean that this will happen to you, but it’s something on which you should ponder. </p>

<p>Be a lawyer for the right reasons. Be a lawyer because you can’t see yourself doing anything else, even if you never make BigLaw.</p>

[jptmom]

<p>As a lawyer myself, I agree with the above posters. Personally, my D looked at both schools (albeit not with an eye towards ultimately going into law, but my husband and I can still dream), and I would recommend Fordham, not just because of the financial benefits as you state above, but I think Fordham gives you a more all around liberal arts education. They do have a stringent core curriculum, but law schools like a well rounded student. Also, consider the Lincoln Center campus, that is where the law school is housed, so if you ended up going to the law school, that’s where you would be, but they also have many majors offered there as well. My D is going there next year for communications. They have many majors offered there. I personally majored in psychology and sociology at Emory many moons ago, and ultimately went to a law school in another state. I believe my liberal arts background at a well recognized school helped when it came time to apply to law school, and honestly, the courses you take in undergraduate schools have no relation to what you will study in law school, so it doesn’t pay to be “pre-law” or focus on traditionally considered pre-law courses like poly sci. I went to law school with many many students who majored in everything from journalism to biology, history, foreign languages, etc. You need to carefully consider saving money now since law school is definitely expensive, and as tranquil says, don’t count on a large salary upon graduation from any law school. Unless you’re like top 5 in the class and law review editor. Which I was, by the way, and still wasn’t offered major bucks although my starting salary was competitive, it was by no means so large I was left with no debt. If you have doubts about Fordham Rose Hill, please look into LC, it may be a great place for you.</p>

[LurkNessMonster]

<p>I would still like to know if the cost difference is $25,000 a year or for all four years.</p>