Would anyone be able to offer insight into either NYU or UMich for undergraduate jazz studies? Not looking for comparisons of location, but for information regarding their faculty, curriculum, and if the undergraduates are taught by faculty rather than graduate students. If anyone has a son or daughter attending one of these universities for jazz and can speak to their experiences, that would be very helpful; my S is trying to decide between the two. Thanks!
What instrument?
@momsings Piano
I asked my son what he thought - he’s not in either program but has a friend in each. My son’s view was that both have strong programs and very good faculty, and his friends have been taught by faculty members, not by graduate students. But he said that if you’re looking to make a career in jazz, you’re much better off going to school in New York. I know you said you’re not looking for comparisons of location, but from my son’s point of view, the location of the two schools is probably the most significant point of distinction for a jazz musician. My son’s friend at NYU is part of the New York jazz scene (as is my son). There are just tremendous opportunities in New York for a jazz musician for performing and sessioning and making connections that don’t exist to the same extent anywhere else. My son’s friend at Michigan likes the program but feels a bit isolated in Ann Arbor, which doesn’t have a jazz scene that remotely compares.
Thanks so much @jazzpianodad! That’s really helpful. Michigan made it quite clear that undergrads are taught by faculty and not graduate students, but NYU didn’t really clarify this, so it’s great to hear from someone who knows. The benefits of being in New York for jazz are incomparable to anywhere else and he knows he wants to end up there. We’re just trying to decide if it might be better to do undergraduate studies somewhere else, develop as a musician, and then head to NYC for graduate school or if he should just dive right in as an undergrad. I suppose it depends on the student, and there’s no right answer, but I appreciate you getting feedback from your son’s friends. I will share their thoughts with my son. Thanks again!
Good morning violet. First of all, congrats on having wonderful choices. My son was initially jazz trumpet but pursued composition/production at Michigan (in a program called PAT at the SOM). While I think NYC is incomparable in terms of location for a performer, I will say that the alumni network at Michigan is strong and a networking type of student will not lack connections in any city. Many of mcson’s friends (especially in music theater, but also in performance disciplines) have landed in NYC.
The two schools are very different as far as colleges go, so the larger question might be what type of overall undergrad experience your son would enjoy the most, and with whom he feels the strongest bond in terms of program.
The comparable NYU program to my son’s (Clive Davis recording arts at Tisch) did not as closely match what my son had been looking for, but mostly because it did not seem to interface as much with the SOM in things like composition. So back when he was looking at both schools, it wasn’t the same scenario you’re looking at and I don’t know in your shoes which way my son would have chosen, but he loved his time at UMich.
If cost is a consideration, in terms of total living expense and tuition, (depending on scholarships and aid) there is generally about a $15k annual differential, as I recall. Having an extra 50-60k toward grad school would be a nice side benefit if your son preferred the program at Michigan.
Best wishes in your son’s decision.
Thank you so much @kmcmom13 for your response. I have heard that the Michigan Alumni network is very strong. You make a good point about the cost difference as well. One thing that has him leaning towards Michigan is that at the auditions, he was able to meet the professors with whom he would study and he really connected with both of them. He wasn’t able to do this at NYU. The Michigan music faculty also made quite an impression on him in regards to the jazz program feeling like a “family” within the large university setting.
It’s great to hear your son enjoyed his education at UMich. Did he end up in NYC eventually?
One other factor to consider is that NYU is not very good with aid (and I am speaking as an alumnus of the school, and from the number of people I know with kids who now go there, across the board). I don’t know how good U mich is with aid but that could play a role as well.
Thank you @musicprnt, good points. Did you attend NYU as an undergrad? I would value hearing about your experience in the program and how you adjusted to life in NYC.
Thanks!
Violet- I was not a music major, I was in arts and sciences back in the dark ages:) NYU is a very different school then when I went there, it is a lot more well off than when I went and has a lot more facilities and so forth. The campus is in a great area, there are a number of jazz clubs in the relative vicinity and in many ways it is a great place to go to school. It wasn’t a big adjustment for me personally, I am a city kid so there was very little I had to adjust to:).
Thanks for sharing your experience @musicprnt. NYU definitely has a lot going for it and they did an awesome job presenting themselves to prospective students and their parents on campus visits. We visited many campuses, NYU was the first, and I still think they did the best job—I wanted to go back in time and get a “do-over” so I could attend. My son has a tough, but fortunate, decision ahead of him. Thanks again for your input!
Violet,
How well does your son know New York? Do you have family or friends there? Has your son spent a lot of time living in a big city?
You asked about undergraduate experiences with NYU so I thought I would share mine. My oldest was reasonably familiar with New York. A very close friend of mine (practically a sister) lives just a few blocks from the NYU campus and we had spent many a school break visiting so my daughter knew the area. She always imagined herself living there and was excited to get accepted early admission to Tisch School for the Arts.
It ended up being a disaster for her. There were a lot of aspects to living and attending college in NYC that she was not prepared for. For example her dorm was right on Washington Square Park and a movie filming kept her awake for several weeks with flood lights and noise. She was unprepared for what it would feel like to be poor. We are a solid upper middle class family but her peers at NYU had considerably more money, which made socializing challenging. The lack of green space and sunlight was problematic for her and she found herself dealing with depression. She originally hoped to explore some academic areas such as psychology to supplement her interest in theater but found the NYU administration was a tangled mess and trying to get anything done outside the box was overwhelming. She ended up going on medical leave the spring of her first year and decided to not return. In many ways she was just not mature enough emotionally to handle NYC. A few years later she would live there for a summer and have a great time. And now as a young professional who is about to complete her graduate degree she is contemplating moving to NYC.
That being said I also know kids who have done quite well at NYU. Do not compare living up by Columbia with living by NYU because they are very different experiences. And also remember that college marketing is just that “MARKETING.” After our daughter’s experience her brothers ended up at schools that were horrible at the parent marketing thing. But as our middle son said about his small liberal arts college, “they don’t waste money on that crap and they put it toward the things that matter to me.”
What is important is to look at your child where they are NOW, not where you expect them to be in a few years.
^Stacjip, the scenario you described above is what mcson “sensed” after his visit. He basically said he felt the environment might be better when he was older, eg masters. And he did sense the socio-economic strata scenario. But in truth, what might have actually influenced him a bit was his stay in a nearby hostel where he was attacked by bedbugs, to which, it turned out, he’s allergic 
Either way, the visit was defining, and perhaps financially fortunate in our case For him personally, I think it was a good choice. He’s a big fan of trusting his gut.
(Violet, to date mcson has not elected to head NYC way, in part because he doesn’t love the city, as you might gather from the above. But he’s happy, so whatever works.)
NYC might be a great fit for your son, so take what we say with a grain of salt
@StacJip-Thanks so much for sharing your daughter’s experience. Some of what she went through is what I worry about for my son as well. We do have a family member in the city, but he doesn’t live there full-time. We have visited NYC many times, but that doesn’t really prepare you for living there. My son is also interested in pursuing courses outside his major, which sounds like it could be troublesome. You’ve given us more to think about—thanks again.
@kmcmom13-BEDBUGS-gross!!! That might chase me away as well. I think my son is leaning towards doing his undergrad at UMich and headed to NYC for grad school. We’ll see. Thanks again for your input; it’s all helpful.
Some very good observations in this thread. @Violet4, you’re obviously right that it depends on the student. My son is very much a “dive right in” person when it comes to his music. The degree to which he’s been able to access the jazz resources in NYC has been amazing. A number of the opportunities he’s found his way into are pretty unique, so I would hesitate to generalize his experience. But the richness of the jazz resources in NYC is such that if you’re intrepid, and good, you can probably find your own unique opportunities.
That said, NYC can also be overwhelming and, depending on the student, it might well be the better path to develop as a musician elsewhere for a few more years and tackle NYC later. My son knows an amazing jazz pianist in the MM program at Juilliard who got his BM at Indiana. My son was remarking the other day that this young man is very much in demand for gigs in the city. Clearly, that path worked well for him.
The good news is that NYU and Michigan both have very strong jazz programs. In some sense, your son can’t go wrong. Whichever path he decides is the right one for him, it will be a good choice.
@Violet4, I noticed on the “Acceptances” thread that your son has also been admitted to New School. Congratulations to him on that! I haven’t spoken with my son since I asked him about his views on NYU v. Michigan, but from talking with him in the past, I know he views New School as one of the premier jazz programs in the country. He has a number of friends in the program there. Definitely a very strong option (subject of course to the same considerations with respect to NYC that have already been discussed in this thread).
jazzpianodad, my son feels the same way about the New School. I think that is because there was a whole generation of amazing musicians who graduated from there a few years ago. They fall into the category of musicians the current crop of Jazz college students worship.
@jazzpianodad and @StacJip, thanks for your thoughts on the New School. Some of my son’s favorite musicians went to school there as well. I’m not sure what he’s thinking about that one; we just found out he got accepted to the dual degree program on the 1st. The audition was very short and he didn’t meet any of the professors, so it’s a bit of an unknown. There’s not a lot of information regarding the New School itself on CC either. The few mentions I’ve found haven’t been all that favorable regarding student life, such as lack of dorms and cafeteria etc. We will have to do some more investigating on that. Thanks for sharing your sons’ thoughts—I will pass them on to my son!
violet I did not let my son apply to the New School despite what he thought of the Jazz program specifically because of my concerns about student life and my feelings that our son was too immature and needed an environment where there was also nurturing around adjusting to college life and life away from home. Our experience with his two older siblings also shaped how I felt about this. I told my son that if the New School was that good he could attend there for his Masters. Funny is that now our son talks about staying/returning to NEC for a masters because he feels there really is no other program where he would learn the way he is learning there.
The New School in terms of location is not that far from NYU, it is 14th and 5th, and from what I know they have build some new facilities there (don’t take it as gospel, just what I seem to recall), I know they are bringing Mannes down to that location as well, and there are new facilities being built for that, and it also might bring new opportunities, too. I don’t know a great deal about the Jazz world, but from the several working Jazz musicians I have met over the years, they seemed to feel that the New School program was a good one, and they mentioned that not only are the people teaching there working musicians for the most part, they also have a lot of master classes and such. The New School isn’t NYU, it is a relatively small school, but I wouldn’t overlook their jazz program either, and it might be more affordable, almost certainly going to be better than NYU given their tuition and lack of aid.