<p>When I was working with boys from juvenile hall, White boys were so rare, they were called “the white boy”. This is in N. Cal, where Blacks are HARDLY overrepresented. There were a lot of Hispanic kids too. </p>
<p>I often see kids with similar problems managed via juvenile justice if URM, and mental health if they where White. I am not sure of all of the dynamics, but it DID reflect parental influence. Some parents are more likely to see their kids problems as “mental health” vs. "behavioral "in nature.</p>
<p>But this was not the point of me posting this link.</p>
<p>I think that it’s important that we at least acknowledge that a lot young urban African-American males face unique circumstances. Contrary to popular belief, growing up poor in the ghetto is a world away from growing up poor anywhere else in the country. I will say it outright: they have been dealt the worst hand in America by no fault of their own. They’re generally stuck in crime infested areas from their birth. They attend terribly underfunded and underperforming schools with unenthused and often inexperienced teachers. They are treated in the strictest manner by the law. They do not get second chances.</p>
<p>We may look at the criminality within the African-American urban community and say, “See how they stand upon the corner doing nothing if not selling drugs? They are their own undoing!” But we most all remember that they were once children once who were born into unfortunate circumstances. More importantly, we must remember that there are children still there and that their circumstances are not faults of their own.</p>
<p>I encourage everyone to read the posts by Jamma on the thread comparing AA to Africans. His insights helped me look at the situation differently.</p>
<p>I go to an upscale high school. About 20% of the student body is AA. Sadly, only one AA is in the top half of our class. The rest just don’t seem to try at all. They are capable students but they just don’t seem to care. This wasn’t true in junior high, but once they entered high school, they quit trying. One of my AA friends who I know is bright told me that to most AA it’s not cool to do well in school. She said she “wouldn’t feel black” if she tried to achieve academically. I don’t know where that mentality started but it seems to me that that mindset – much more than quality of schools, role models, etc. – is the root cause of the problem.</p>
<p>I also think that having two parents at home encouraging you to do well is very important. I am Asian. Every Asian I know has two parents at home who expect academic success. No AA I know has two parents at home. I think this situation also needs to be addressed before the problem can be solved. I think that is what President Obama was emphasizing. </p>
<p>In my school, anyone can achieve if they try hard. No prejudice or hate could stop a student who is dedicated. The opportunities to succeed is there for all, regardless of color. Again, I think this was Obama’s message.</p>
<p>I live in a community in the U.S. of 100,000 souls, ninety percent of whom are black (of African descent but people here do not self-identify as AA) and ten percent of whom are “other” (hispanic, asian, white). Schools here are dreadful: not enough teachers, teachers teaching subjects they are unqualified to teach, insufficient numbers of text books, corporal punishment, deplorable physical facilities, etc. Nevertheless, every year some students who have been educated under these wretched conditions attend universities, and every year a few attend elite universities. The students who achieve academic success almost never return home to live after earning their degrees, because there are few opportunities here for accomplished individuals. The students who do not attend universities tend to have low paying jobs, live in government housing, create children they can’t afford to rear, and perpetuate the cycle that has made their lives miserable. The successful students have one thing in common: effective parenting. Effective parenting can overcome lousy schools; I see it every day. In my experience schools can not become excellent if they have to overcome ineffective parenting, as ineffective parenting is simply too great an influence. For most people in my community, effective parenting is the only means by which they can rise above the circumstances of their birth.</p>
<p>You know none in 20 percent of m upscale school? That seems odd. How many do you know? OTOH, my kids, two of maybe six African Americans in their grades, are among the few of their almost exclusively White friends, whose parents aren’t divorced. Just anecdotal, of course.</p>
<p>Shrink, I have two AA friends and am familiar with the home life of about 6 others. My point wasn’t intended to be statistically meaningful. </p>
<p>In our school, 9 of the Top 10 are Asian; one is white. White kids in our school aren’t doing that well either. Everyone thinks Asian kids are so bright, but they are no brighter than anyone else. Our advantage is that almost all of us live in two-parent homes where both parents expect us to study hard and excel academically. Asian kids who come from divorced homes usually fare no better than other races from single-parent homes. </p>
<p>The statistics are over-whelming. Kids raised in single-parent homes are at a much greater risk of committing crimes, having abortions, dropping out of school, etc. This is true for all races. Rates of births to unwed mothers among all races have risen since the 1950s. But not at equal rates. The rate among AA women has risen five times the rate for whites and three times for Hispanics. As a result, AA children are more likely than children of other races to live without both parents. What I don’t understand is that most of the decline in two-parent AA families has taken place over the last 20 to 25 years – after the Civil Rights movement’s successes. Today, almost 3 out of 4 AA births are to unwed mothers. This number is even higher when you look only at only poor AA mothers. I think this is what President Obama was addressing. Although civil rights have improved drastically over the last 25 years, the achievement gap has increased between AA and other races because of broken homes. </p>
<p>I can speak with authority only about my race. In China, it is virtually unheard of for women to have children without marrying first. Although this number increases for Asian-Americans, the numbers are still very, very low when compared to other Americans. In my opinion, this is why Asians do so well in school. To me, it seems pretty simple. We’re no smarter than anyone else. We are just raised in homes where achievement is encouraged and expected. Even “dumb” Asian kids almost always attend a four-year college. It seems to me any race could accomplish the same thing if their culture were the same.</p>
<p>That is the difference between Black Americans and African Americans. Black American children do much worse in school than African American children simply because of the lack of parental guidance and parental priorities. I’m from Ghana and my parents expect me to do very well. They have high expectations for me academically and socially. African parents rarely get divorces. It is apart of their culture to stay with the person they marry. Similar to the asian culture. Even though this is different in some African countries, Ghana and many other peaceful African and Caribbean marry and then have children. There are hardly divorces even when relationships between the parents aren’t going so well. They view divorce as financially wasteful and detrimental to child development and success.</p>
<p>Black Americans on the other hand feel the need to act out against prejudice and discrimination that occurred in the past. They still hold animosity for whites and sometimes its like they still want their revenge. I met an ex- black panther and the animosity he portrayed towards whites and blacks that were passive about exerting their rights was down right disgusting. Families are usually torn apart in the Black American community. Women get pregnant and the father doesn’t commit to being a supporter of his children. Many Black American households lack fathers and as a result mothers usually tend to drugs to make ends meet and as a result the children suffer. They have nothing to look up to. To add to their misery, their peers who for the most part are going through the same troubles, feel worthless. They feel that doing well in school won’t solve their problems. Even though they are sadly mistaken, that is the general view of education. </p>
<p>I’m a smart, hardworking black young adult going to the University of Michigan - Ann Arbor '13. I live in a semi-affluent society. The black kids think I act white just because I’m smart or work hard. Sometimes they think they I’m a loser because I want to get an education. One Black American girl even had the nerve to say “I hope you don’t marry a white girl when you grow up.” I don’t take their comments to heart because I will do better in the real world than they will. Even though I’m very outgoing and do many activities and I’m not actually a loser, the black community feels that education is worthless. </p>
<p>Blacks from other countries whose parents are together and whose parents have high expectations for their children fare better than the Black American community as a whole. Even though this is partly a generalization. From what i’ve seen and witnessed this is true about most families. There are some black American families that are together and their children fare well, but for the most part, there are serious family issues that have a detrimental effect on children.</p>
<p>NearL i do agree drug laws are unfair and downright racist but are you truly defending the behavior of inner city black youth selling drugs and committing violence? The majority of AAs in inner cities know that the justice system isn’t fair, wouldn’t that give them even more of an incentive to NOT commit any crimes? At the same time, i don’t believe in the notion just because you’re dealt a bad hand, you’re out. I just refuse to believe that. I know COUNTLESS people born into poverty that overcame it. As dntw8up stated, it all comes down to parenting. YOU CAN’T BLAME ANY OF YOUR FAULTS ON OTHERS, I’M SORRY, YOU JUST CAN’T. Realistically you can’t stop laws and what not, all you can do is control your own behavior. </p>
<p>I have a friend of mine who is very intelligent AA male, and when he shows his intelligence in class, all his fellow black peers sneer and make fun of him. “Oh you think you’re smart now?” And this is not an isolated experience, i’ve seen this situation all to often. </p>
<p>Your experiences sound identical to Jamma’s. Until a year ago, I was not aware of this difference between Africans and African Americans. </p>
<p>There was a boy from Jamaica who went to our junior high. He was one of the brightest kids in school. His parents were accountants. When it came time for high school, his parents placed him in a private school (his older brother also attended this private high school). When I asked him why he wasn’t going to attend our public high school (which is a highly-ranked school), he said something about his parents not wanting him to fall into the wrong crowd. I thought this statement was odd because all of his friends were good students, but now I think what he meant was that his parents wanted to make sure that he wasn’t subjected to the “why are you trying to be white?” peer pressure that you experienced. </p>
<p>I feel so bad for those AA who face this type of peer pressure. No other race that I know of has to deal with this pressure. In my culture, it’s just the opposite. We encourage each other and help each other get over periods of self-doubt. I am sure there is some sociological reason why this mentality exists in the AA culture that I do not understand, but I hope the success of people like President Obama help change it. </p>
<p>Although many Asians many disagree, I support affirmative action. Any student who can achieve academic succeess when faced with pressure from his or her own people not to succeed in school deserves a chance to attend the best schools. </p>
<p>Good luck at Michigan!! Do something great while you’re there!!</p>
<p>Thanks for the encouragement HappyNow. I’m strongly in favor of Affirmative Action for many reasons, but I hope this thread and other discussions about the hardships that many African Americans face will be given more serious attention. Times are changing and this is a very important issue for my generation and future generations.</p>
<p>At no point in this discussion have I ever condoned the actions of inner-city black youth. I’ve only elaborated on the realities of their situation. Selling drugs is never OK. That doesn’t mean that the War on Drugs isn’t misguided. Poverty has extremely ill effects of educational attainment. However, I don’t believe that harsh circumstances excuse underachievement.</p>
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<p>In my experience, it doesn’t. Rather it emboldens them further. Understand that a large portion of the African-American community is fatalistic. They look around and believe that nothing that they do will change their circumstances. And to some degree, I understand why.</p>
<p>I’ve volunteered in inner-city schools countless hours. I’ve seen valedictorians get a 1300/2400 on their SATs. I’ve seen straight A students drop out after their college freshman year. Their circumstances are beyond bad. It’s not just a lack of resources that are harming these kids. Even the teachers that instruct them are pessimistic about their potential and prospects. They don’t even try. Worse, some are severely under-qualified. In some cases, it would be better to leave students with a book and pray.</p>
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<p>I’ve seen countless more crushed under the weight of their circumstance. We can’t blame them for not being able to surmount nearly impossible odds. </p>
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<p>Fine. But don’t blame the kid either. You don’t pick your parents or your environment. I really don’t think it’s fair to say, “Hey, absent father, broken educational system, ghetto neighborhood, overworked and largely absent mother, and poverty be damned – rise above it! Learn math you were never taught – that you don’t even know exists. Read books. Write. Don’t worry about hunger or stability! Books will sate you. Math will be your foundation!” And if you think that it’s fair to place such an impossible burden on someone, then I suggest – DEMAND – that you spend any amount of time in the ghetto. Get to know some of those kids that are standing near the entrance of their block’s liquor store. Ask them about their family lives. Ask them about their education. Ask them about their lives.</p>
<p>And then ask YOURSELF if, under the circumstances, you would have actually been better off. Don’t place you, the one that has been molded by your semi-affluent neighborhood and and good parenting, in his circumstances. Place the bare you – unshaped clay – in their lives. Absorb their values not knowing any better. Feel their desperation and fatalism. </p>
<p>Do you think you would have been any better? I’m not sure I would have even graduated high school had I grown up in a ghetto.</p>
<p>“In my experience, it doesn’t. Rather it emboldens them further. Understand that a large portion of the African-American community is fatalistic. They look around and believe that nothing that they do will change their circumstances. And to some degree, I understand why.”
Don’t you think this says more about their mind state rather their environment? I know children who go to inner city schools where AAs make up the majority, while whites/asians/indians make up the minority. While ironically the honors/AP classes are filled with white, asian, and indian students. Are these AA kids not given the same chance to thrive as their low income counterparts?</p>
<p>“I’ve seen countless more crushed under the weight of their circumstance. We can’t blame them for not being able to surmount nearly impossible odds.”
Difficult? Yes, impossible? No. These aren’t 3rd world children in africa. </p>
<p>Get to know some of those kids that are standing near the entrance of their block’s liquor store. Ask them about their family lives. Ask them about their education. Ask them about their lives."
But i do the many kids in inner cities though. I can say with confidence a majority of them don’t care for their education. And just because your father isnt around, and your mom works a lot, you get a pass to sell drugs, act foolishly in public, and kill YOUR OWN BROTHERS. Think about it, you’re killing your own people. Damn…</p>
<p>“And then ask YOURSELF if, under the circumstances, you would have actually been better off. Don’t place you, the one that has been molded by your semi-affluent neighborhood and and good parenting, in his circumstances. Place the bare you – unshaped clay – in their lives. Absorb their values not knowing any better. Feel their desperation and fatalism.”
Yes without a doubt i’d still do good. If anything i’d be even MORE motivated to succeed given my humble origins.</p>
<p>I agree with NearL. Put yourself in their shoes. Living the reality of the ghetto is different than speaking of it from a semi-affluent perspective. There are many problems that face our education systems, teachers, and infrastructure of schools in low income areas. There are many things that need fixing when it comes to education in the United States. African Americans are struggling. They have the lowest average test scores of any race in the U.S.</p>
<p>Like NearL said, you can’t blame someone for growing up where they did. However you can blame the parents for having children and not showing them a proper way of life. Neglecting and abusing a child is no way to treat them properly. Showing them that the only way to be wealthy, or succeed is to live a life of crime, or deal drugs is unacceptable. But in reality these things happen. A child can’t know right from wrong if their parents expose them to a wrong way of life that seems right. There are many complexities when discussing success in school and parental guidance. Even though there is a correlation, there are more factors that contribute to success in school in comparison to ones environment. </p>
<p>Take a city like Chicago for example. There is violence everywhere. The majority of people living in Chicago are black and hispanic low income Americans. How is one supposed to succeed under those conditions. Always wondering if they are going to be alive the next day. Parents struggling to find food for their children. Sometimes, in communities as unfortunate to live in as Chicago, getting an education is the last thing on your mind. That is a sad reality in a country as “great” and affluent as the United States.</p>
<p>Not at all. Your “mind state” isn’t genetic. It is largely determined by your environment. </p>
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<p>Short answer: hell no. Demographically, are these AA kids given the same culture and domestic stability as their white, Asian and Indian peers? Do they live in the same neighborhoods? If not, then they aren’t given the same chance to thrive. Poverty is only part of the problem. Those AA kids are far more likely to come from single parent homes, more likely to live in dangerous neighborhoods, more likely to have parents that are unable to help them with their homework, and less likely to have parents that are concerned with their education. </p>
<p>Read the above again. Are these AA kids given the same chance to thrive as their low-income white, Asian, and Indian peers?</p>
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<p>Near impossible. You really need to go to the ghetto to understand. There is no dearth of children whose first concerns iare finding food to eat and a place to feel safe every day of their lives. You think that it’s a matter of rising above very surmountable odds. But that’s only because, you’ve been taught how to get about in the real world in your idyllic little suburb. </p>
<p>A lot of these kids don’t have parents in the conventional sense. They have adults that turn on the TV and hope to god that their children don’t leave the house and cause trouble. They aren’t even taught traditional English. They aren’t even put in stimulating environments.</p>
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<p>You really have to stop putting up strawmen. I have never, at any point in this discussion, condoned criminality. I only express the variables and circumstances that produce it. </p>
<p>I think living in a home and being essentially left to raise yourself is a damned near impossible thing to do. The average person in that situation is going to look for the nearest person that provides them attention – often times their peers or someone slightly older – and emulate them. Often times the person that has the most time to do that are the worst influences – they usually don’t work and are more likely to sell drugs.</p>
<p>You really need to step outside of yourself. All the values you hold are there because SOMEONE ELSE INSTILLED THEM IN YOU. You did not develop them of your own volition. You are nothing more than the sum of your environment and response stimuli. Had no one ever taught you your manners you wouldn’t have them. Had you been beaten up for reading books and doing well in school you would have stopped doing so immediately. Had someone told you that selling drugs was the best way to make money and nothing in your environment led you to believe to the contrary, you would have considered it. Heavily.</p>
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<p>You’re impossible. What you’re essentially saying is that you’re better than every single one of those kids on the corner from your idyllic ‘semi-affluent suburb’. That’s easy to say, but hard to prove. You need to step outside of yourself. You were born on third base but you think you’ve hit a triple. And here you are trying to compare yourself to kids that weren’t even given a bat let alone shown to you use it.</p>
<p>Nearl, I don’t think anyone would disagree with your conviction that growing up in the ghetto makes achievement more difficult. The question is this: How do we change the situation? Increased civil rights wasn’t the answer. Years of government funding wasn’t the answer. Talking about the problem for years wasn’t the answer. So let’s try something new. </p>
<p>First, let’s recognize that the problem is getting worse, not better. Then let’s recognize that the root problem is the lack of stable homes in the AA community. Let’s then conclude that it’s time to stop blaming racism. Rather, what the community needs to do is refocus its attention on fixing the wall one brick at a time. </p>
<p>You’re right. It’s wrong to blame the victims. But we ask young AA women to stop having children without fathers. We can ask young AA men to quit being absent fathers. We can explain, as President Obama is trying to do, that the situation won’t improve until AA family structure heals itself. A person can’t choose their parents or the situation in which they were born, but they can choose how they will behave tomorrow and the next day. Having self-respect and respect for others does not require “being born on third base.” Anyone can do it.</p>
<p>I know that it’s possible to peace together a traditional conception of self-respect and hard-work without any help at all. But most people need reinforcement. As it stands, having a traditional conception of self-respect and hard-work is maladaptive in the ghetto. If we really want to save these young men, we have to take them out of the ghetto and put them in a safe, stable environment. I think all-male boarding schools for at risk youth would be a good idea. The money can come from what we save in building/maintaining prisons.</p>
<p>-NearL or any others, are any of you guys going to watch Black in America 2 tonight? I’m interested in what they will cover tonight. </p>
<p>-NearL, again like others have stated it comes down to parenthood. Look at Michelle Obama, she was born on the south side of chicago, but still thrived because of her parents. the kids in low income areas that tend to achieve are the ones whoses parents are around. are you going to blame the government for that? In all seriousness, i think you’re one of those people that blames the governement and the “white man” for all our problems acting as if our people have their hands clean in the matter. </p>
<p>-Happy, you’re right about the ghettos getting worst. Just imagine have bad they’ll be in 25 years, its going to SUCK to live there. The AA community in inner city needs to help themselves, because whether right or wrong, the government sure as helll isn’t going to help. </p>
<p>-Has anyone heard of the boule? They’re the most elite black men in the country. It would be recommend that everyone look up the vid on youtube, “Steve Cokley exposes the boule”, i don’t like to dabble in conspiracies, but a lot of what is discussed is holds some weight. The main theme of the vid, is that the richest/most elite of black americans are holding down their people to widen the gap between rich AAs and poor AAs. At first i thought it was out there, but it does seem interesting…</p>
<p>Off-topic: Given gentrification and social trends, chances are the “inner city” will be a little more outward. Which will make it even more difficult to help the situation:</p>
<p>Michelle Obama thrived because of her parents. Key word: parents. They’re important and we don’t get to pick them. I don’t blame the government for broken families. I take issue with people being unsympathetic for people who, by and large, never had a chance in hell. Living in the ghetto is harsh. Living in the ghetto in a single-parent household without the benefit of good schools is damning. We have entire neighborhoods where kids aren’t being watched by anyone, schools where parent involvement is nil. Kids in these situations are left to raise themselves.</p>
<p>To be honest, I do believe that the government has a responsibility to help these children because they’ve done nothing wrong. You don’t do anything to grow up in a ghetto. You don’t do anything to get a ****ty parent – and don’t think I don’t take fault with the parents. I do. But the children are innocent. We have a responsibility to them.</p>
<p>You can think I’m one of those people that blame the white man. The fact of the matter is that I haven’t mentioned the white man once in this thread. I’ve only explained the factors that contribute to the cycle of poverty that exists within the ghetto. If, for some reason, you feel that this mythical white man should feel guilty about this situation, that is your business and not mine. But don’t try and make assumptions about my character or my beliefs based on nothing.</p>