<p>someone who does well may be intelligent, but that does not mean it is an objective measure of intellect. </p>
<p>Sorry, but it is not.</p>
<p>It’s a faulty premise. Start over.</p>
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<p>If the criteria for team captain is is simply who has put in the most time, then perhaps your son indeed should have been captain. On all the teams my kids played on (multiple club teams and school teams in three different sports), that was never the criteria. It was a combination of talent (team members need to be able to respect the abilities of the captain) plus leadership abilities. How long someone had been there was irrelevant.</p>
<p>Also, coaches always chose the captain. I agree with you that letting the kids vote could result in a kid being chosen as a popularity thing-but then again, a captain is not effective if he is not respected by the team, so in some cases it may well turn out to be an accurate tool.</p>
<p>D1 was designated as varsity captain of her high school team as a senior (she joined the team as a sophomore), along with another player who was a junior, but an elite nationally recruited player. There were a couple of other seniors who had played on the team since freshman year who were not chosen, but they were not natural leaders, nor did they seem to view themselves that way. As it turned out, D1 suffered a career ending injury very early in the season, so although she was on paper a captain, in reality it didn’t work out that way. She survived the disappointment. The junior captain handled the job solo and handled the responsibility beautifully, in spite of the fact that she did not have seniority in years. I never heard anyone complain that she was chosen captain over older, more seasoned players.</p>
<p>Back to the premise of the thread, top schools say over and over that they are not looking to fill the class with kids with simply the top GPAs and test scores. Parents seem to be unable to accept that, because every year at this time we read about the “unfairness” of a kid being rejected from a school while another “less qualified” kid they know gets in.</p>
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<p>[New</a> Evidence of Racial Bias on SAT | Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/06/21/sat]New”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/06/21/sat)</p>
<p>From the text:</p>
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<p>What it has to do with the debate is that you are offering up the argument that the “best” “objective” measure for college acceptance in the SAT score. But the test isn’t objective, and so, this is a biased perspective.</p>
<p>bovertine- I found several. Here is just the first one. The others took a bit more searching and I don’t see them at first glance again.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/HistoricalSAT.aspx[/url]”>http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/HistoricalSAT.aspx</a></p>
<p>Text from your iq comparison site:</p>
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<p>^^^
Yes, I’ve seen this. In fact, I think this is where I got the fact that MENSA believes the current SAT no longer corellates with IQ.</p>
<p>“What it has to do with the debate is that you are offering up the argument that the “best” “objective” measure for college acceptance in the SAT score.”</p>
<p>I NEVER said that. In fact, I said GPA, course rigor etc was.</p>
<p>Schools have different ways of selecting captains,and even within a school different teams have different ways. At one son’s school, it is almost ridiculous as there are sometimes 5 captains and then an honorary captain each game for football, so nearly any senior can claim to be captain honestly. Grade inflation of another sort, I guess.</p>
<p>When you are talking about 20-30 points in the mid 700s range you are talking about a few questions on each section. How could you suppose to differential “genius” from just smart based on that? The whole point of holistic admissions is you never do have 2 identical kids.
You would have to be giving a black box, no prep, single sitting exam to get any kind of read on innate ability and even then you are measuring knowledge in addition to ability. Back in the dark ages when I took standardized tests they relied less on knowledge and more on what would be innate spacial and mechanical skills, etc. Anyone remember all those questions with visualizing the folded shaded boxes and cog and gear systems? We hadn’t seen them before we were using our reasoning and spacial skills to figure them out on the spot.</p>
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<p>Wow! At D’s school, they choose permanent captains for the season, and this goes on the school transcript if it is a varsity sport.</p>
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<p>When I was told that one of my Ds had an IQ qualifying her for MENSA, I laughed. Don’t get me wrong, she’s very bright, and I love her dearly, but all too often she displays a complete lack of common sense. It’s hard for me to think of her in MENSA terms.</p>
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I would certainly dispute that, or perhaps your definition of “genius” is not the same as mine. I have seen kids who are exceptionally bright and I have seen kids who are a lot more than that, and I’ve been able to tell the difference.</p>
<p>yes, Nrdsb4, and she can join mine in Mensa, the one who has the common sense of most of the rest of us who could join mensa.</p>
<p>As I said, earlier, this and 2.50 will get you a cup of coffee at the local starbucks.</p>
<p>thinking of a world, or even campus, run by this group is alarming, to say the least.</p>
<p>When I was told that one of my Ds had an IQ qualifying her for MENSA, I laughed. Don’t get me wrong, she’s very bright, and I love her dearly, but all too often she displays a complete lack of common sense. It’s hard for me to think of her in MENSA terms.</p>
<p>OMG… That is SO my daughter!!! She fits the prototypical blonde stereotype joke to a “T” but scores in the top .5% on the SAT. We laugh at how wrong we were about her.</p>
<p>And then there’s the story of how Richard Feynmann, upon winning the Nobel Prize, was contacted by Mensa. They had hoped to snag him as a member, but as things turned out his IQ wasn’t high enough for him to join. </p>
<p>Of course, there is the possibility that with multiple testing, his score on one of the acceptable tests at some point in time would have made the cut, but that would have ruined the story. However, I think it would have supported holistic evaluation.</p>
<p>Kind of OT, but our district can be kind of strict when it comes to IQ testing for gifted programs. Many parents will have their child re-tested to get them into the program, or to have them stay in the program after three years when mandatory re-evaluation comes up. On an individual level, scores can change quite a bit from one testing administration to the next.</p>
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quod erat demonstrandum</p>
<p>;)</p>
<p>You guys are lucky - if it was up to the coach, my S would certainly have been captain. He is very well liked by the coaches and team members, he’s just quiet. Plus, he had one of the best records on the team. He has leadership abilities, he just hasn’t had an opportunity to use them and prove to himself that he can do it. That’s why it’s such a shame and a little unfair. The other kid who became captain can show that on his application, but my S can’t. That’s going to hurt him on a college app that looks for leadership, which was my original point.</p>
<p>*top schools say over and over that they are not looking to fill the class with kids with simply the top GPAs and test scores. Parents seem to be unable to accept that, because every year at this time we read about the “unfairness” of a kid being rejected from a school while another “less qualified” kid they know gets in. *</p>
<p>Getting into a top college isn’t a reward for high school performance- too many parents and kids see it that way. Valedictorian or some award from the hs is for that. Top colleges, instead, look for the predictors of your success at that particular college and beyond, based on its self-image, opportunities, strengths, social scene, activities they value outside class, etc. It’s about being a match for what they want. And, they don’t just want top stats kids. They want the whole deal, as they define it. </p>
<p>Yes, for a highly competitive college, it matters to rank high, have rigor and stats. But that describes at least five-six times as many kids as we have seats for. So, we value- and look hard at- maturity, savvy, perspective, inquisitiveness, energy, willingness to get involved and take on responsibilites, willingness to explore new arenas, sometimes compassionate involvement in the community or your culture, activism or some entrepreneurial spirit, sometimes humor, always how intersting the kid seems to be, etc, as well as stat performance. You have no idea how many kids do not show these attributes, even with top stats.</p>
<p>Poorly written essays on stupid, immature topics are telling. Flippant short answers, misplaced humor, a sense this app is rushed or generic, etc, are problems. </p>
<p>Plenty of times, the 2100 guy or gal is far more interesting than the 2350. Plenty of times, the kid from a lousy hs knocked himself out to get addl classes or experiences, while the kid from the rigorous hs just followed the crowd to the next club meeting. I am a firm believer that, with a little research, it’s possible to understand what College X wants and likes, and tailor your app to this, to some extent. Most people are so focused on stats, the absolute that a 2350 is higher than a 2300, a 3.9 is higher than a 3.8, that they don’t realize. It’s some wierd desire to make things hierarchical without understanding the valued components.</p>
<p>Megan, I sense a strong anxiety for your son.</p>
<p>I think he wll end up with some very good acceptances based on who he is and what he has already achieved. Maybe not everywhere, but somewhere very good where he can continue to grow and learn.</p>
<p>Good luck to you.</p>
<p>^^^^</p>
<p>Does he have a job? If not, he should get one. He might even get promoted. That would show ‘leadership’. </p>
<p>I have to chuckle at all of this leadership crap for HS students. I see what 99% of the HS student groups do…NOTHING. There very rarely is any actual leadership happening…they do the same things year after year after year. I have to think most admissions people see through this crap.</p>
<p>Great students can always find a great school. Might not be your ‘dream’ school but somewhere willing and able to turn a quiet kid into a true leader and go-getter.</p>