Observations about/from current students

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
21

<p>Carleton is, at least in my view, a really good school with great academics. My D was turned of by the competitive and "grind" nature of the students - and she visited campus and sat in on classes not once but three times to confirm this feel before she turned them down. Interestingly she ran into a transfer from Smith while she was there who wanted the co-ed environment and was happy.</p>

<p>D has a friend at Barnard, who really wanted to go to Smith but didn't get in (had started at Colorado College and transferred to Barnard). She seems quite happy at Barnard. From what I've heard about housing/urban environment it would be important to visit first.</p>

22

<p>I took D and her friend who transferred from Smith to Brown out to dinner tonight. Over the lobster bisque, I innocently asked friend why she tranferred to Brown. "I wanted a less study-intensive environment." </p>

<p>ROFL!!!!</p>

23

<p>{ROFL!!!!}}</p>

<p>I trust you swallowed the bisque first?</p>

24

<p>Oh My, Smith has a study-intensive environment???? A Brown student said that???? I thought high school was harder than Smith????</p>

<p>Hmmm...who to believe?</p>

<p>BTW, how was the bisque?</p>

25

<p>BJM, for ME, hs was harder than Smith. I went to a VERY unique charter hs, okay? I really, truly did. I had about as much homework there as I do at Smith, except I was also in school for 28 hours a week there, and working on an independent project for 10 hours a week. With jr-yr SAT mid-50% of 1300-1500, many of my classmates were as quick or quicker than me, including a handful which had photographic memories or had finished calculus in 9th grade. There is also the fact the most intense courses were math, which seems to be my natural weakness. The average math student (ie me) got a B- or C+ throughout calculus, and still scored a 5 on the BC Calc AP. It was way intense, but because of cooperative learning also kind of fun for us studious types, and I got so used to it that my freshman year at college my expectations were probably different than MOST Smith students'. I did have another girl in my chem class who said her small, private hs had been harder than Smith. But for MANY students I'm sure hs was easier than Smith.</p>

<p>Smith may have a more study-intensive environment than Brown. I wouldn't know. All I know is it has a LESS study-intensive environment than UChi, Swarthmore, and according to third-person testimony, Carleton and Bowdoin.</p>

26

<p>Ecape: I don't think Middlebury is as selective as you think. On its website it states its mid-range SAT I scores and they aren't that much better than Smith's - the mid of the mid-range being 1315. Check it out.</p>

<p>The USNews mid-range figures are only for the approximately 50% of students who chose to have their SAT I scores used in the evaluation process - presumably the 50% who had the highest scores!</p>

27

<p>Asked my D about difficulty vs. HS. She took 5 courses her first semester, and thought that two were easier than HS (she went to a competitive public HS).
BUT, she said the aggregate workload was much greater than HS, in particular she had to write lots of papers (multiple per day). This I'm sure is influenced by her choice of courses - they were all humanities, no hard sciences.
She liked four of the teachers a lot, and actively disliked the fifth (statistics).
Overall she's happy and looking forward to next semester.</p>

28

<p>Addendum - yes I know statistics is not a humanities course!</p>

<p>The key factors driving D's satisfaction seem to be: 1) quality of teaching/classroom interactions, and 2) having met numerous new friends.</p>

29

<p>florus,</p>

<p>I know Middlebury is probably not TOO different from Smith in freshman selectivity. But for a transfer it is much more difficult. Last year they accepted 9 out of 250 apps, and at least two of those were from Harvard and Williams. I'm interested in Midd mostly for their phenomenal environmental studies, and the fact they're coed. </p>

<p>Lucky,</p>

<p>Who was your daughter's stat teacher, if you don't mind telling? My stat teacher was hands-down my worst instructor too.</p>

30

<p>Don't know teacher's name but it was the 200 level course last Fall, not the 100 level course which she learned too late had a much more engaging teacher.</p>

31

<p>Yep, sounds like the same class I took. It was really the only class at Smith where I felt like I didn't learn ANYTHING. Very disappointing, since I have to be good at stats if I want to continue in Biology. Half the semester was stuff I had learned from research in high school, and the more complicated stuff she just had us plug-and-chug in the computer and noone seemed to understand what was actually going on. I did keep the testbook, so hopefully I can study sometime on my own and learn more. I talked to her about taking a more complicated stats class, and she actually DISCOURAGED me saying I'd learned all I need to know for undergrad Bio.</p>

<p>The stats course was co-taught by another teacher who I also didn't think was very good -who I had in another class as the primary instructor. Although she seemed much more competent AND her class was a lot of work -she just wasn't very engaging -it seemed like maybe she wasn't happy to be at Smith, which would be too bad.</p>

<p>I have to say 5 out of 8 of the professors I had at Smith were at least good natured, although none of mine were terribly exciting. I'd say about 4 of my 9 classes WERE as hard as hs.</p>

32

<p>{{and I got so used to it that my freshman year at college my expectations were probably different than MOST Smith students'.}}</p>

<p>Ecape has a valid point. Many students attended difficult prep schools, Andover, Choate, Deerfield, and even though they test out of, or receive credit for the basic courses, their 1st year is easier than expected.
Al Gore attended St Albans, and it’s well documented when he attended Harvard he did very little work his 1st year because the material was a repeat of his high school curriculum
It’s no different at any college, There are students at Midd (one is a friend) who are having a very easy 1st year because they attended Andover, Choate, etc., whereas many of the public high school students, even though they took all APs, received 1550 on their SATs are struggling.
The vast majority of students at Smith, Amherst, Middlebury, Bowdoin etc. attended public high school, which is why you’ll find a general consensus the colleges are difficult, which they are.
For the record, I’m not criticizing public high schools-- my daughter attended one-- but all high schools are not created equal. I taught high school for a year--don’t ask--and I can assure you the students that went on to Midd, Smith, et al, were not close to being as well prepared as many prep school students. Not because the teachers were bad or the students weren’t bright, but because the curriculum was much easier and less intensive than that of an Andover. There are, of course, exceptions to every rule. There are /many/ public high schools that are equivalent to many preps because they rigorously teach IB, or AP-- but they’re the exception.</p>

<p>My wife attended a public high school and had difficulty her 1st year competing against the far better prepared private school students. I’m sure some snots (being polite for Roger) considered her not their equal and on a lower level. However, she attended one of top 3-5 MBA grad schools, so I guess you could say--she caught up. As mini has stated numerous times; Smith has the largest number of Pell Grant recipients of any LAC. Sure, maybe some 1st years aren’t up to ecape’s standards-- give them another year.
Smith will almost miraculously mold and nurture bright students with potential and create exceptional alumnae capable of achieving untold distinction in any field they so choose</p>

<p>. {{But for a transfer it is much more difficult}}</p>

<p>Transferring to Midd is difficult not because it’s a better college but because they have Feb fresh admission (and waitlist) If Midd needs to add students because more decided to study abroad or the attrition rate was higher than expected, they draw from there. After 9/11 there were almost nil transfers to Smith. Many students who otherwise would have studied abroad didn’t. Housing was an issue for a time also with more students on campus than intended.</p>

<p>{{I don't think Middlebury is as selective as you think.
The US News mid-range figures are only for the approximately 50% of students who chose to have their SAT I scores used in the evaluation process - presumably the 50% who had the highest scores!}}</p>

<p>The same with Bowdoin. If all the SATs that weren’t submitted were added into the average it would be 100 points less, or more.
Midd, Holyoke, et al, have stopped requiring SATs so they can submit higher SAT averages than is the realty to influence the US News ranking debacle
In Bowdoin‘s, and I believe Bates defense, they didn’t require SATs long before the ranking wars</p>

<p>{{I'd say about 4 of my 9 classes WERE as hard as hs. }}</p>

<p>It will get much harder as the levels increase. Trust me.
Check back after your Jr year and tell me how easy things are.</p>

<p>{{I talked to her about taking a more complicated stats class, and she actually DISCOURAGED me saying I'd learned all I need to know for undergrad Bio.}}</p>

<p>She did you a favor. Why the hell would you want to take and pay for a course you’ll never need? You already stated math isn’t you strong suit and it certainly isn’t your major.
You’re unbelievable. A professor saves your parents thousands on an unneeded course, not to mention directing you not to waste your time, thus giving you the opportunity to take a course that will be of value and you b***h</p>

33

<p>rlt: The point of liberal-arts educations is to learn in many different fields you won't necessarily need. But some colleges and universities suggest two semesters of statistics for biology, whereas Smith only suggests one. There are many fields of biology for which the math needed would go beyond what I learned in that one course.</p>

<p>rlt: And I will repeat myself, so please take note: MOST of the courses I took as a freshman were upper-level courses with sophomores, juniors, and seniors. I only took 3 100-levels. I took intro-chem courses, but upper-classmen chem majors told me those were more difficult than a majority of their upper-level courses. I took an upper-level Bio which was supposed to be one of the most work-heavy courses in the major, and I placed into an upper-level french for which I had fewer years of french under my belt than anyone else in the class. I DID actively seek out classes which were supposed to be difficult. For spring 2005 I will be taking a 300-level course, 2-3 200-levels, and 1-2 100-level with a nice mix of science and humanities.</p>

<p>And with regards to your wife's case -I had much the same experience going from an impovershed middleschool to an intensive high school. I started out a poor student, and resented people who acted as though I was dumber than them. I don't have any problem with people who work hard in their classes and don't make ideal grades. I'm a little exasperated with people who just flat-out don't take the time to finish their homework.</p>

<p>All that being said, if I AM lucky enough to be accepted at Middlebury, I would be fine to be met with the same level of challenge I've found at Smith, because it's really the fitness of the academic depts for my interests that prompted me to consider transfer to begin with.</p>

34

<p>I’m confused. I thought you wanted to major in ES and that's why you wanted to transfer?
You never said you might want to minor in bio. Do you?
You don’t need another stats course for your intended major. That’s all I was saying. If bio is going to be a minor, stats away. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.middlebury.edu/academics/ump/majors/es/academic/themajor.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.middlebury.edu/academics/ump/majors/es/academic/themajor.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

35

<p>How could such an exceptional student like Ecape not get into every school she applied too? Certainly, she didn't have to settle for her safety school...Smith.</p>

36

<p>{{All that being said, if I AM lucky enough to be accepted at Middlebury, I would be fine to be met with the same level of challenge I've found at Smith, because it's really the fitness of the academic depts for my interests that prompted me to consider transfer to begin with}}</p>

<p>Then all this arguing over what college is more rigorous than the next is a moot point. Why did you find it necessary to start a thread regarding the validity of the ratings with regard to Smith to begin with.?</p>

<p>Btw- if you don’t like <em>flacky</em> wasps you might want to reconsider Midd. Students from Fairfield, Westchester and assorted wealthy NJ counties, including a large number of prep school students are abundant.</p>

37

<p>Yeah I've heard that -so I know it's a risk. Not one of my biggest concerns though. BJM, why did I get rejected from so many schools out of hs? I was competing against very good students for grades in hs (some even more obsessive than me lol), and I came from a bad middleschool, so my GPA wasn't the hottest. I definitely improved a lot throughout hs. Also, at my PUBLIC hs, no one gave us too much instruction on putting together strong apps -I learned a lot about this from the career-development office at Smith, actually.</p>

38

<p>Seriously. Whatever. I do not doubt that had I graduated hs from the impoverished local school-system I attended through middle school and then gone to Smith, I would have found Smith very challenging. I regret that the internet does not allow for tone-of-voice or expressions, and therefore allows so many different and potentially malicious interpretations of one written sentence. I am tempted to think if I met any of your (pl.) daughters at Smith, chances are we would get along just fine, and a conversation like we've been attempting would make a lot more sense. Who knows, maybe I HAVE already been friendly with some of your daughters at Smith.</p>

<p>In truth, being the liberal I am, I am the first to say our culture puts WAY too much emphasis on book-smartness. I feel this way to what some may call a radical degree. In middle school I used to argue w/ my mom that construction-workers' salaries shouldn't be so different from businessmen's or scientist's, because construction-work is so hard. I would gladly trade a couple dozen pts off my IQ (whatever that may be -I dunno) to be unusually talented in music or acting. It's just that I think of academics as my thing, so I AM a bit obsessive about them.</p>

<p>But fine. Whatever. Think whatever you want about me and my intentions. All you have to do is ask me not to risk any more posts on the Smith forum, and I'll oblige.</p>

39

<p>oh yeah, rlt: I just started the thread about Smith's ranking b/c I was genuinly shocked at the diff between UChi and Smith once I experienced it, and I was searching for the most valid way to compare Smith's rigor to other schools'. I think SAT range MIGHT be the best way to do it, as much as my liberal-PC tendencies HATE to admit it. I mean, trust me about hating it... I used to argue to people in hs that SATs were near worthless. But I still don't know for sure -considering I posted initially about Smith's rankings like 4-days ago, I'd say that post was more trouble than it was worth :P
And I AM interested in ES. Conservation Biology and Environmental Policy, in particular.</p>

40

<p>I brought up E's description of the WASPy legacy-type Talbot girls over lunch with D and her friend who transferred to Brown. The friend chortled: "I never met anyone like that there [in two years at Smith] but I wish I had. I wouldn't have liked them but it would have made [social life] more interesting."</p>