<p>Yes, trill, but my point was that because OCU's program is auditioned, that means some people will <em>not</em> get in! Not saying that that will happen to your child, but it does happen to someone's children :), and to be on the safe side, it would make sense to have some back ups.
Also, there are many terrific and very prestigious and well-thought-of summer programs which are NOT auditioned, including SDM. As others here have posted, SDM alums are all over Broadway and the industry, and recognize their "own." :) In addition, Carnegie Mellon's precollege summer program is considered one of the best there is, and it is NOT auditioned.
This is all not mean to knock OCU's program. I have heard many positive things about it. It is just meant to say that just because a program is not auditioned does not mean it's no good.</p>
<p>To me, I can't compare a pre college program to another summer theater intensive. If I were looking at pre college programs, which I NEVER have for either of my kids, then I would look at several. For instance, I would be comparing OCU, CMU, UMich's MPulse, Northwestern, and many others of that sort. When we looked into SDM, it was ten years ago and at that time, we looked at SDM, French Woods, Long Lake Camp for the Arts. One of my kids chose SDM, one chose French Woods. Both were great experiences and both fit my kids. Comparing facilities of a college with a summer theater camp is just not something I would be doing. To me, that is not apples to apples. I would be comparing CMU's program to OCU, or some such. CMU is a reputable program that is not by audition. CMU doesn't put on a show. OCU combines classes with shows, as one example of a comparison. I never looked into summer college programs and nor were we ever looking for "education" for summers. My kids looked for experiences where they could pursue their interests. They found them and loved them. That is all I care about. The rest followed. </p>
<p>The fact that OCU offers piano, music theory, diction, etc. would only be relevant to me if I was comparing courses/curriculum at two college or pre college academic programs. I was not. Frankly, my kid could not have given one iota about piano or music theory at her summer program. My D is an accomplished pianist with ten years of lessons, sight reads fluently (accompanies at many auditions, music sight unseen in advance), placed out of music theory courses at CAP21, placed into the fifth level of piano (placed out of required) at UMich's BFA program, musically has directed several shows and accompanied them on piano and conducted orchestras, arranges music (as I speak she is at our baby grand....she is home for two days, the first time in five months, arranging music for both her a capella group at Tisch, as well as for an original music revue for someone else at Experimental Theater Wing) and so this is an example as far as picking a summer program to suit what you WANT in an experience. She did not need her summer program to provide music training. She plays three instruments. She has been a jazz pianist as well, and plays guitar and flute. She did not choose her summer program around which courses she "needed". She chose a program based on her interests, as did my other child. My D already took a ton of dance at home, plus voice. She did not have access to any acting classes where we live and so did get that at SDM. Being with other very talented kids from all over in her classes and in her casts was very meaningful for her. She did not attend her summer program to "prepare for college". Some might pick a program such as CMU the year before senior year, to get help with audition prep. My D did not get help with audition prep at her summer program but she was not looking for that. She had a voice teacher in our region and then got an acting coach the fall of her college audition year to help with that. So, everyone is obviously looking for different things, as it should be. For instance, French Woods Festival has a wonderful instrumental music program on top of its theater program and my D who attended FWF was an accomplished musician on piano and clarinet (All States, etc) but didn't want to focus on that in summers as she got to do that all year. She could not fit in musicals during the year as they conflicted with her sports teams and so she was able to do two musicals every summer at FWF and continue with dance (which she took at home too). She also wanted to learn to waterski (she is an alpine ski racer) and she could combine that with musical theater and dance at FWF, as well as be on their tennis team (she was also number one seeded tennis player at our HS), which she could do at FWF, whereas my other D was willing to give up all her sports and instruments all summer to just focus on theater and chose SDM where she could do that. That is why we let each child pick what suited her the best, not which program is "better". My D who went to FWF for four years (total of 24 weeks) opted to spend her last two HS summers going on travel programs as she really cared about that experience as well. So, my kids did not choose summer programs based on what they "needed" for college. They just chose what they wanted to do. They are every bit as "serious" about their pursuits and indeed have followed their path and each has gotten in where she wanted to go to college and we'll see what happens next. </p>
<p>Examining curriculum is something I would surely do when comparing COLLEGES. The BFA programs differ quite a bit. My own kid wanted a program that balanced acting, singing and dancing and some programs do not. Some may want a more music focus, some a more acting focus, and some may not care about levels of dance. That is why personal criteria is very important in these choices. I can see how trill wants a music training curriculum to be good prep for college and so OCU makes sense. My D was not looking for that. Further, she has wanted to go to SDM since she was 8 (she went to a general overnight camp that summer, though was in a musical there) and surely was not deciding what she "needed" for college. There ARE things one NEEDS to go into MT. And yes, she has made sure to train intensely in voice, acting, and all styles of dance, as well as garner theater production experiences at all levels. But this can be accomplished in many ways. She did not pick her summer experiences as the exclusive means to accomplish that. As I said, her music training alone is year round and she is a musician. I also agree with NotMamaRose that there are many quality and worthwhile summer programs that are not audition based. </p>
<p>I believe that all the programs being discussed here are good at what they do and they are merely different types of programs. If I wanted a pre college program, I'd be comparing pre college programs, however. I certainly do not believe one NEEDS a pre college program. Neither of my kids ever considered one and made out more than fine. Also neither of my kids attended summer things that were just three weeks as OCU, for example, used to be. They went away most of their summers out of choice. That is why this is such an individual choice. What I don't think is fair to do is to comment as to the worth or how beneficial or serious a program is if one has no first hand experience. Same with talent. Obviously SDM accepts all who apply and can get a slot before it fills up (it is almost sold out for this year, for example), but that doesn't mean there are not very talented people there. There is a range. As I wrote, just of my own D's peers from her years at SDM, many have landed at the well regarded college programs. I don't know the case with those coming out of OCU's summer program, but frankly, this would not have been a consideration for me if I were looking into summer programs. I only mention it as others have commented about that issue. By the way, I forgot in the above post of two Stagedoor friends who went to NCSA. I'm looking forward to continue to follow the careers of the kids I have seen on stage at my D's summer program and I KNOW that there are also very talented kids coming out of all these other ones. </p>
<p>To me, the most important criteria in selecting a summer program was that my child asked and begged to do it and then loved it. That's all I cared about. Frankly, same with my kids' colleges. They are happy where they are at. So, I have heard of many happy campers at OCU and can tell you of many happy ones at SDM. Choosing a summer program should be about where you want to go, not where it may lead you later. If you have the goods, you'll be successful or have a chance at success. It isn't where you went but who you are. Where you went will shape you, but many places can do that well. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>I agree MamaRose. Just because OCU is an audition program does not make it better than one or the other. My personnel preference is that an audition program will pull better talent, but to each their own. That's my opinion. Although it seems that opinions that are different become grounds for uncalled for dispute.</p>
<p>And of course Soozie, no one needs a summer program to make it in the industry. As you have said many times, one doesn't even need a degree to make it in this business. It's great that your children loved SDM. My child prefers OCU. The fact that they offer daily courses in theory, piano, etc make a difference to us. That's what makes this process so wonderful is the amount of choices we have for our children! Each program has its place.</p>
<p>You are very correct to say that the child should pick what motivates them and where they want to attend. That is the only thing that matters!</p>
<p>MTd, I never claimed to have first hand experience at Interlochen. I did say that I have a lot of experience with the program from a second hand point of view, much like Susan's experience with SDM through her daughter. And I did not bash Interlochen. I said that I do not like the program because I feel it is too constrictive to be a heathy creative environment. This opinion is based on the reports of many friends who have spent a lot of time there. So I would really appreciate it if we kept this conversation to the programs and not to bashing each other. We can remain civil here can't we?</p>
<p>Well IJEkiss, that would certainly be fine. As long as you follow your own words.</p>
<p>And if we want to keep this to the original question, that would mean discussion about OCU and Stagedoor.</p>
<p>Once again, I have been civil and I do not appreciate any insinuation to the contrary. You keep trying to pick a fight for god knows what reason. Thanks again for polluting this board with more passive agressiveness!</p>
<p>IJE..you have already been called immature by one member. Perhaps now that you will be civil, the original discussion of this topic an resume.</p>
<p>One question I did have about the OCU program....how much time is spent in rehearsals? It sounds like the program is quite packed and I was wondering how they schedule the shoe rehearsals around the classes?</p>
<p>Trill- I believe classes are in the day and rehearsals are at night.</p>
<p>I also have heard that OCU's program is classes during the day with the rehearsals at night. </p>
<p>SDM has rehearsals in the AM, classes in the afternoon, and rehearsals at night as far as those elements go.</p>
<p>I don't know what you are referencing exactly, but anything that may have been said about me in the past has no bearing on this current situation. And furthermore I have no idea what I have done to warrent this kind of treatment on this thread except for giving my opinion and asking for us to be civil, which you obviously cannot do. So maybe you need to do some thinking and decide if you should be doing something else in your life beside being generally unpleasant on a board that is meant to help people! If you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything. Simple but true.</p>
<p>Yes trill...soozievt is correct. The rehearsals are at night. Apparently that's after a full day of classes.</p>
<p>I think I would be exhausted by the afternoon! :)</p>
<p>I think that kind of non stop training is good. It helps you to realize how much work musical theatre really is and it is really good boot camp-esque training for people who are serious about this career. Both OCU and SDM are probably very similar in terms or a rigorous schedule.</p>