When the Olin foundation announced they would endow an engineering school the original proposal would have Olin College be a part of Babson. Land for the Olin campus was purchased from Babson.
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My Amherst tour was 40 years ago. The only thing I recall from the tour was some kid’s father, who belched - loudly - throughout the tour. It isn’t just the tour guide who can leave an impression - this guy was so distracting that my folks and I didn’t remember anything else about the tour.
In a car, start to stop, maybe. But in a bus (which is what most students have to rely on) where you have to get to a stop, a few minutes early so you don’t miss it, other stops along the way, then walk on the other end, and practically speaking it’s 30+ minutes each way. We asked a lot of kids about this.
For some, perhaps a distinction without a difference. Not for us.
As for proximity to Springfield and Hartford…
@TomSrOfBoston ah right I recall reading that but they neglected to mention it in the info session and tour.
Right, I was responding to a proposition about drive times. Bus times would be longer, although I gather the system is frequent and relatively direct (except maybe Smith). I just wanted to make sure others did not get the impression these places were all a 30+ minute drive away, and therefore even more by bus.
Anecdotally, when we asked about this at Amherst, it seemed like there were a few variations. Some people again would take no classes elsewhere, some might only take one or two classes at, say UMass or Hampshire, which are both relatively close (in fact I gathered Hampshire is about a 20 minute bike ride, which seems right on Google maps, and the bus transit time appears to be 10 minutes, from the schedules online).
However, if you got serious about doing in-depth classes at another college (again, a relatively rare scenario, but possible), you might try to cluster them so you could go over once for at least a couple classes.
Then there was the story about someone from Smith who apparently was coming to Amherst in the morning, then going over to UMass in the afternoon. Seems like a lot to me and it was definitely presented as exceptional. I don’t remember if we were ever told why in detail, but I gathered it was something very specific she wanted to do.
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Oh, for those planning to spend whole days or large chunks of days at another college, apparently meal plans could be transferred over. So that seems handy.
Way back in the 1990s I was a student at Hampshire (without a car) and I routinely took the bus a few times a week. Sometimes it was for a class, often it was just to go to town and get a bagel or go to a record store, or to see a show in Northampton. The bus wasn’t onerous; I’d read my notes or a book, or just relax and have downtime.
The above comment about “ask for stats on how many classes at each of the other schools the average Amherst kid takes in 4 years” IMO isn’t the relevant question; e.g. say…95% of Amherst students have all the classes they want to take at Amherst - then they just don’t have a need to take classes at the other schools.
When I was at Hampshire, I took a class at Smith, and three classes at U Mass in cognitive neuroscience - because those classes at that level weren’t offered at Hampshire. Yet at the same time plenty of my classmates did not take classes off campus, because they had all the classes they wanted at Hampshire.
IMO, it’s a perk to be able to take classes at other schools and students can opt in or not as fits their interests.
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Yeah, to me when you are a rising HS senior trying to map out possible college paths, it is basically impossible for most such people to reliably know in advance what they will want to do by the end of their four years.
Combine that with a college with a relatively open curriculum, and it is even harder to know in advance where that might take you.
So, having these easy cross-registration options available to you seems like a nice option to me. Maybe you never use the option, but maybe you do, and just having the option can make it a little easier to be confident you can go to a LAC you like and figure out your exact academic path as it develops.
And then as you point out, the exact percentage of people who end up actually using the option is not really all that important to such contingent logic. I suppose if no one used it, it would be of dubious value. But if at least a decent fraction make some use of it–good enough for me.
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Oh, and kinda random (but I guess this is the place for it)–back in the day I used to have about a 25-minute bus commute to work. I loved it. I found it relaxing to have it as part of my daily before- and after-work routine. Sometimes I would nap (either direction), sometimes I would read, sometimes I would just stare out the window . . . . And I thought the short walk between my bus stop and work was generally a nice mini-exercise routine (twice a day).
Now, if that had been more like 1 hour each way, required a transfer, or so on–yeah, maybe not so much. But I guess my experience was somewhat like yours, and I look back on that bus ride fondly, not as a huge burden.
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I’m a Smith alum, took one class at Hampshire, and I don’t remember it being much of a hassle at all. Aside from that, I was happy to attend events at all of the 5 colleges. Parties, concerts, theater/dance events, took advantage of them all. Not every day or every week even, but once a month at least, I’d do something at one of the other schools. Everyone’s experience will be different, but all it does is expand your options, curricular and extracurricular. Like I wouldn’t say one should enroll at one college thinking they’re going to take half their classes at the other four, but the consortium is more than just nominal.
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That’s precisely why the question is relevant. If that is true for 95% of students, it’s really not much of a selling feature IMO. And for the 5%…why go there if that’s the case when you can assuredly get all the classes you want at another school. Just choose a larger school (which in the case of Amherst isn’t difficult…)
n=1, so aware of generalizing from this - for my child, who really loved Amherst, the comfort of knowing that she could draw upon the expertise and events of the larger 5 colleges community made it easier for her to commit to this excellent, but small, school. Her interests are varied and a bit unusual, so this really mattered to her. Now - if she ends up doing it or not, who knows, but it was definitely a selling point.
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Presumably because there are other dimensions of preference as well.
I note, for example, that there is a whole thread at CC discussing PhD placement, and the top LACs tend to do very well in those rankings on a per capita basis. Holding aside the four tech schools in the top 20 of this per capita ranking (CalTech, Harvey Mudd, MIT, and Olin) . . .
. . . the rest of the top 20 are Swarthmore, Carleton, Reed, Grinnell, Williams, Haverford, Pomona, St. John’s College, Chicago, Vassar, Bryn Mawr, Princeton, Oberlin, Yale, Wesleyan, and then Amherst at #20. So, 13 out of 16 are LACs, and the remainder are Chicago, Princeton, and Yale, which are not necessarily guaranteed alternative options for people who are admitted to one or more of those LACs.
For that matter, the next 10 is Wellesley, Stanford, Whitman, Macalester, Kenyon, New College of Florida, Mount Holyoke, Smith, Dartmouth, and Brown. So, 7 more LACs, Stanford, and 2 more Ivies.
Now, of course per capita PhD placement is only a rough measure of certain sorts of possible college virtues. Still, I think this suffices to help show why certain sorts of applicants might be attracted to LACs generally. And even if they are cross-shopping them with a few universities (like Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Dartmouth, and Brown), they may have a pretty wide preference band where it is mostly LACs.
And then in this list, you have all three of Swarthmore, Bryn Mawr, and Haverford, and also Amherst, Smith, and Mount Holyoke, and Pomona (plus Harvey Mudd) as part of consortiums. Obviously people can and do choose non-consortium LACs, but again options can have value even if there is a good chance you will not end up wanting to use the option. Because you might.
Anyway, I guess to me it is not even a puzzle why certain sorts of people would at the same time value LACs, but also a value a consortium option. But if that combination does not click for others, obviously they are free not to personally value that combination.
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Deleted my off topic comment!
As an addendum, I was curious enough to do a quick googling. According to this source, 50-60% of Amherst students end up taking a course at another of the Five Colleges by graduation:
It also says there are over 5000 cross-registrations in the total Five Colleges system per year. With about 7500 Five Colleges students per class year, this implies the overall percentage of Five Colleges students taking at least one course at another college is probably roughly similar (accounting for some individuals taking more than one).
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Well of course there are other criteria but:
a) this was noted as a “powerful combination” which I took to mean a bigger deal/higher priority than not
b) many of the schools you list are meaningfully larger and not necessarily meaningfully more competitive for entry (which is to say, many are highly rejective as is Amherst)
And taking “a course” does not, to me, indicate that the consortium is all that effective for cross registration if that is one’s aim. If the majority took ‘several’ or even ‘a few’ I may think otherwise.
EDIT: I liken these options to amenities offered in a ‘full service’ apartment building - they may have a gym, a theater, a wine cellar and tasting room, co-working spaces, kids play areas, all sorts of things. Most of which are empty most of the time (save co-working spaces since covid!) Not bad to have, but probably not as useful as the marketing material makes them seem.
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I have a Smithie, who has not taken consortium courses, but several of her friends have. The availability of the 5 colleges increases course options and allows students the ability to meet students at the others schools and increase social opportunities. In addition, they can participate in clubs and teams at others schools (at least they can participate at UMass, not sure about the others). It creates a larger community to an extant, which is nice. And of course, they can eat at UMass, which is known to have the best food.
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Hopefully you now understand what I actually meant is that IF the relatively open curriculum of Amherst led you down paths where Amherst did not have ideal course depth, THEN Amherst being part of Five Colleges could prove very useful. It was never intended to be an assertion as to the percentage of Amherst students who would fall into that category.
many of the schools you list are meaningfully larger and not necessarily meaningfully more competitive for entry (which is to say, many are highly rejective as is [Amherst])
So on that list, the notably bigger colleges are again Princeton, Yale, Stanford, Chicago, Brown, and Dartmouth. I do think it is possible someone could get admitted to Amherst and not some of those colleges, and I specifically think it is possible someone could get admitted to Amherst and not any of those colleges they would prefer to Amherst overall. For that matter, as much as this may shock some families, I think a person could reasonably prefer various LACs over any of those universities.
Speaking of which, I also do not think the point I was making was really unique to Amherst. Like, I consider it a virtue of, say, Mt. Holyoke or Haverford as well, and again I think it is possible a student could be admitted to such LACs and not any of those larger university colleges, nor indeed need they actually prefer those university colleges to such LACs.
And taking “a course” does not, to me, indicate that the consortium is all that effective for cross registration if that is one’s aim. If the majority took ‘several’ or even ‘a few’ I may think otherwise.
Again, it is not my aim to persuade you that you should prefer a consortium college. That is entirely up to you.
Personally, though, I see the value in the option. Having confirmed it is indeed a practical option, that is enough for me to value it as an option.
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“I think it’s not unheard of for privates to favor ~locals. Harvard gives a tip to Boston area residents I think. I would presume others might act in similar ways…”
Can confirm for Northwestern re: Chicagoland kids.
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I believe the same is true for Brown. 6% of undergrads in Fall 2022 were from RI, which is a much higher percentage than TX or FL and roughly the same as NJ. Statistically improbable without some kind of boost, given the size of RI and the strength of the applicant pool nationwide.
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Many private universities give special consideration to applicants who live in the city where they are located. It is a part of PILOT (Payment in Lieu of Taxes) arrangements. But I doubt if many give preference to residents from anywhere in their state.
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