Official Class of 2013 ED Decision Thread

Colleges and Universities A-Z Dartmouth College
141

<p>Yes, the process is going to be subjective. But to call it random, arbitrary, unfair, and/or a crap shoot detracts from the hard-working professionals who make these decisions and their efforts to make the process as fair as humanly possible.</p>

<p>This discussion is interesting for me because on Tuesday night, I told my husband that if our daughter did not get in to Dartmouth ED, I wouldn't view the process as random or unfair. Rather, I would have been disappointed but accepted that she had a great package but it wasn't what Dartmouth was looking for. And my daughter said that if she didn't get in, it would be Dartmouth's loss. She would have been a gracious loser.</p>

142

<p>As I said - there "will be" randomness, arbitrarienss and unfairness. Doesn't mean that all admissions people are making random, arbitrary and unfair choices, just that some ma;, AND some completely professional admissions people may just have a bad day and make some judgement mistakes. Human beings are fallible.</p>

<p>Using the word "crap shoot" may be too strong, but if you are the unlucky one who happens to get the admissions person who had a fight with their wife that morning, you might feel like the description is apt.</p>

<p>Congratulations to your daughter, she must be wonderful and I'm sure you are so proud. I don't have any dog in this hunt, I just find these Ivy league acceptance threads interesting because so many obviously qualified kids are turned away.</p>

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<p>VCR.. that is exactly my son's feeling; He would have been over the moon to get in, but he has handled the disappointment with the class and character he embodies. It is indeed dartmouth's loss. However, there is a randomness to picking AMONG qualified students. But I, for one, never said it was unfair. I hold absolutely nothing bitter, and if the word "crap shoot" or "lucky" offended you and your daughter's accomplishments, I sincerely apologize. But do not think that just because your D was accepted that she was MORE qualified than the deferred or the rejected. My son has some very very good friends attending Dartmouth and not a one of them is arrogant. In fact, it was Dartmouth's humility that initially struck him. Perhaps you should take a note. And lastly.. my son is gracious, but he is no loser and not something to be merely packaged. Using those words seems to be coming from someone just a little too personally wrapped up in this process. I find it odd to call any kid "a gracious loser" when he/she is reaching towards a goal and falling short. Should I pass on your well wishes?</p>

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<p>Well put, Modadnun.</p>

145

<p>Dartmouth</a> News - Dartmouth admits 401 students through early decision - 12/11/08</p>

<p>And if this doesn't put it into perspective, nothing will.</p>

146

<p>"And lastly.. my son is gracious, but he is no loser and not something to be merely packaged."</p>

<p>Well said, Modadnun. I can see where your son gets his goods. :)</p>

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<p>Modadunn: Who is "a little too personally wrapped up in this process"???</p>

<p>Yes, do offer your son my best wishes. When he gets into a great college, I am sure you will be as proud of him as I am of my daughter. And I suspect you won't be posting about how unfair that college's admissions process is...</p>

148

<p>*Decision: ACCEPTED *</p>

<p>Stats:[ul]
[<em>] SAT: 2-- M- 670,780 CR- 600,700 W- 580,750
[</em>] SAT IIs: MIIC- 800 Lit-710 Bio- 700
[<em>] GPA: never calculated (at least 3.5/4 unweighted)
[</em>] Rank: none
[/ul]Subjective:[ul]
[<em>] Essays: Always good, though this time written 10 days before sent
[</em>] Teacher Recs: 2 Ph.d.s-- 1 was my BC Calc teacher freshman year and 2 year quizbowl coach, the other a literature teacher I was planning a graduate-level course on Am./Brit. Lit with respect to nationalism (using Anderson's Imagined Communities)
[<em>] Counselor Rec: fine I'm sure
[</em>] Hook (if any): mother was Class of '76 (first four-year coeds), I dropped out of arguably the best public school in VA to teach myself college subjects
[/ul]Location/Person:[ul]
[<em>] State or Country: VA
[</em>] School Type: 2 years @ a selective admission "Governor's School", 1 at home with part-time at local HS
[<em>] Ethnicity: White
[</em>] Gender: M
[<em>] Intended Major: Math & Psych double
[</em>] major strength/weakness: strengths would be devotion to National Quizbowl and my low age (17th birthday will be on campus); minimal CS hours = biggest weakness
[/ul]
Also, I've only scanned these posts but I don't think anyone mentioned a stat that came in a letter to my mom after I applied: legacy students have about twice the acceptance rate for what it's worth</p>

149

<p>Seriously VCR.. PLEASE Check your reading comprehension.</p>

<p>I don't think I have EVER said college admissions were UNFAIR. That isn't a word I would apply to this process on any level and I actually would say it isn't fair OR unfair.</p>

<p>If you're still having trouble. Try reading it again. S L O W L Y</p>

<p>And here's a tip: This is exactly what I said to my son when he told me he didn't get in. " I am sorry if you are disappointed. However, I really want you to know how absolutely proud both your father and I are of you. You went after something you really wanted and didn't hesitate. I am so impressed with who you are growing up to be."</p>

<p>I don't have to wait till he gets into a great school to be proud of him.</p>

150

<p>I am saddened and disgusted by much of what I've read here today. I hope I would have been more gracious had I not been accepted.</p>

<p>Most unbelievable is Charlie who believes life is unfair because he did not get into Dartmouth with a 2040! You were not even close Charlie!! They probably never got to the part about your fire fighting because you were simply not competitive. Grow up and stop asking alums not to support theirschool because they refused to take one less than qualified candidate. And honestly it's a nice and noble EC, but how would you have added to D with that?</p>

<p>I'm a minority student with much higher SATs although I go to a school that leaves most behind, never had a prep class or a teacher who I'd trust to edit an essay. I beat the odds by myself Charlie, not with easy access to anything. </p>

<p>And modadunn, your son has a parent hanging out on a college website. I can't imagine all the support he must have gotten all of his life. His bar should be higher than mine to show equal potential. The fact is Dartmouth is swamped by applicants who have been spoon fed all of their lives and maybe they want a little self directed tenacity to round out their college. It's not so random, they know what they want!</p>

<p>So quit all the spoiled sport behavior and go 13's!!!!!!!!!</p>

151

<p>this thread has officially resigned me to rejection from Stanford. lol.</p>

152

<p>Gee Dartmouth13.</p>

<p>I chastised Charlie for his comments as well, only I tried to do so in a much more compassionate way.</p>

<p>2nd.. this isn't a forum just for students in the least. </p>

<p>3rd: I don't get your comment about the bar being higher. And I don't really need to, but I said from my first post that after seeing all the over the top stats it was doubtful S was competitive. I also said that if he hadn't gone for it, he would have regretted it. If nothing else, admissions proves it takes all kinds; something to which you have proven as well.</p>

<p>I also don't believe I've ever whined about my son's rejection. While I've cautioned those who got in not to think they are so much better than their peers who were deferred or rejected, I have never suggested my son should have gotten in or that I didn't get how he could be rejected or that he deserved something more than you or anyone. ever. I have also said S was quite alright with not getting in -- actually surprisingly so -- and is just lamenting the rest of the applications he has to fill out.</p>

<p>So before you have so much to say, lose the chip and actually know what you are responding to. It just seems ridiculous to me that to even suggest that there are more people who are qualified then there are spaces to fill is responded to with such insistence that this can't possibly be true.</p>

<p>But hopefully this will make you feel as superior as you obviously feel you are entitled to:</p>

<p>Dartmouth only accepts the best and the brightest. There were clearly only 401 superior applications that illuminated the room when the file was opened. If you were one of the worthy, you are a gilded child destined for greatness. All your dreams are sure to come true. Please look down on others as you sit upon your shining hilltop in Hanover. You have earned it and those that were rejected were completely stupid to ever apply. </p>

<p>Feel better? :)</p>

153

<p>I have to go with vcr on this. It's always bothered me when people say the process crapshoot. While there are far too many qualified applicants to let everyone deserving in (I believe it was someone from harvard who said they could fill 3 classes with equally qualified students) the students who got in got in for very clear reasons and I can usually see where those who were not accepted are lacking. For those in the middle, acceptance certainly takes a bit of luck. Maybe an essay really resonated with the adcom, maybe they didn't have too many people with a certain interest area. The adcoms read applications very carefully and their decisions are well thought out. To say crapshoot or even random is essentially saying they pulled some names out of a hat and gave them acceptance letters. To say it is somewhat random is to say that after the clear admits, and clear denials are eliminated, the remaining spots are awarded based on luck only. Maybe this is not what you intend to imply, but that is the way I read it. In reality, applicants who are not clear admits(perfect stats + national level ecs) go to the adcom, are discussed, and need unanimous vote for acceptance. There is a reason behind every acceptance, deferral, and rejection. I would not call this a crapshoot.</p>

154

<p>Modadunn, I find a few of your posts in this thread a bit catty and rude. Perhaps you are bitter over your son's rejection?</p>

<p>I'm not referring to the ideas expressed in your recent posts. I agree with the fact that college admissions are unpredictable and that qualified students are often turned down. I mean, that's prettyyyy obvious, lol. </p>

<p>I'm referring to the specific parts where you told a poster that she "did get lucky," as well as the time that you "joked" about how you "should have gone to Dartmouth [your]self AND had URMs for children." I mean, it's a known fact that legacies and URMs have higher admissions rates, and your and my opinions on admissions offices' policies regarding this policy are irrelevant to this thread, but I didn't really think it was appropriate for you to imply that the URMs and legacies in this thread were admitted for those reasons. "How's your reading comprehension?" struck me as rude, too. </p>

<p>But this was the clincher:

WHAT?!??! Dartmouth13's post was well-thought out and humble and implied absolutely NO feelings of superiority, and your attitude toward him or her is absolutely inappropriate and sickening. Do you treat teenagers that you meet in your everyday life with such a condescending and rude attitude?!?! Did dartmouth13 EVER imply that he or she was "better" than those students who were rejected, in any way, shape, or form? Perhaps you need to work on YOUR reading comprehension skills! Or maybe you didn't misinterpret but just needed to let off a little steam (preferably at someone who WAS admitted) -- again, I think you're just a little upset about your son's rejection. </p>

<p>Anyways, I wish the best to you and to our son: I'm sure he'll end up at a great school! :)</p>

<p>--
Sorry, Dartmouth ED people, for cluttering your thread with this crap. CONGRATS to all of you accepted (and deferred, 'cause who knows what'll happen)!!!!!! And to the rest of you: don't worry, you'll end up somewhere that you LOVE. :]</p>

155

<p>Thanks Poseur, you took the words right out of my mouth. I'll add new threads like the one suggesting the D President is a hypocrit. Sounds like sour grapes to me.</p>

<p>After all that's been written here, I feel very justified as a URM admit to state the obvious, there is sour grapes and racism being expressed here. I have NO compassion for racists or the entitled!</p>

156

<p>ehoss, </p>

<p>Very good post on a thread that is going like a runaway train. While emotions are pretty raw now (we ain't seen nothing yet, wait until april) what parents and students must also remember that nothing tops the institutional mission, which changes from year to year based on the needs of the college.</p>

<p>A couple of years ago, I read the Overachievers by Alexandra Robbins. Although the first paragraph starts out a little over the top, woven in between the student stories is some good sound facts and advice (which is definitely why the book is worth a read for parents and kids going through the admissions cycle). Although the quote was made by Harvard's Dean of Admission and FA, the though process pretty much the same at any highly selective school.</p>

<p>from page 202..</p>

<p>
[quote]

Harvard's dean of admission and financial aid, Bill Fitzsommons told me that applicants have to do some unusal things to distinguish themselves is a "misconception". "in brad terms, there are 3 ways to get into Harvard," he said. </p>

<p>Each year out of 23,000 applicants and 2,100 admits, </p>

<p>about 200 to 300 students get in because "they are among the most exciting potential scholars of the coming generation." </p>

<p>The second category consists of "people who do something extraordinarily well.' 200 to 300 excelling in dance, drama, or athletics, whose achievements "are almost surrogates for energy, drive and commitment." </p>

<p>After all of this plays out, everyone is going to end up where they need to be. A year from now, this process will be a distant memory as people are loving their colleges (whether Dartmouth or someplace else).</p>

<p>The third way to get into Harvard is the most common: students who have "plain old accomplishments on a day-to day basis. it is not about gimmicks, but about substance."</p>

<p>Harvard tells students there are hundreds of excellent colleges choices, and while Harvard may be one of them, other schools might be a better match

[/quote]
</p>

<p>For those of you who attend or have attended or have kids who attend or have attended, when you see the class come together, you will see first hand that the process is anything but capricious, arbitrary, random, etc. You become amazed at the job the admission team does in putting together a great class of students year over year.</p>

157

<p>I have only corrected misinterpretations of what I have said and to be told I called the process unfair was never the case... I was told I said it twice, and i responded that I did not, twice. And is why I questioned reading skills. </p>

<p>But you're right that some things written weren't entirely appropriate and certainly sarcasm risks misinterpretation, but never did I suggest that any kind of hook -- URM, Athlete etc -- would EVER get a kid in JUST because of that. But I think it was widely accepted that it did give you a bump - born out by the statistics released by admissions today - why else would they single them out? </p>

<p>And I actually really liked the girl who called herself lucky. But I was clear to add that while she may have been slightly lower in her stats, it was surely her interests and other talents that played a role in her acceptance and is what I said. </p>

<p>I am apparently being misunderstood because I have always said a school is building a community. I just take offense that anyone would think that those who were accepted as the class of 2013 were the only possible acceptances out of 1500+ students.</p>

158

<p>hypocrite has an e on the end, I'm sure just a type-o.</p>

<p>I haven't seen racism, but I'm probably not as sensitive to it. </p>

<p>Congrats on your acceptance Dartmouth13.</p>

159

<p>Yeah, I wouldn't say there is racism, just bitterness towards the preferential treatment the college gives URMs in admissions. It's not like anyone is hating any specific minority here...right?</p>

<p>EDIT: I slightly retract my previous statement after re-reading some posts in other threads. It's not blatant and probably not intentional, but if you look for it you can sense it</p>

160

<p>
[quote]
I have to go with vcr on this. It's always bothered me when people say the process crapshoot. While there are far too many qualified applicants to let everyone deserving in (I believe it was someone from harvard who said they could fill 3 classes with equally qualified students) the students who got in got in for very clear reasons

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ehoos, I am surprised you side with vcr so completely because I took issue with when her post said that those who didn't get in probably put together a bad application or on some level were not good enough. And by crapshoot, you will never know for certain what it is that will make the class well-balanced... and next year, the same kids deferred in 2013 might have gotten in and vice versa. It all depends on what year you apply and this was the class of 2013. It's not better, it just is.</p>