<p>Thanks for the support…</p>
<p>@placido240- There is so much more to an application than what is posted on a forum. Stop being ignorant. SATs and GPA aren’t everything, and it makes me happy to see Duke as one of the prestigious ivy-like schools that is starting to realize that.</p>
<p>Right on Danders617,</p>
<p>As the father of a son who has applied to Duke RD, what I see is a lot of really great applicants getting in with very high scores that are comparable to the Ivies and a few also getting in with somewhat lower SATs (but usually comparable grades and classes) and terrific activities. I also see many great applicants getting rejected/deferred and am sure they will get accepted at really good schools because they are obviously terrific. Overall, Duke’s ED rate for CAS (not including Pratt) was about 22.5%, lower than the overall rate for Ivies like Penn, Cornell, Dartmouth and Brown. The difference in my view is that Duke appears more holisitic in its analysis than these other schools. Also, having attended Duke, I know admissions works hard to admit really good NC applicants (not that easy a task when UNC is such a good school and three times cheaper).</p>
<p>@Placidos</p>
<p>I really do think everyone admitted takes offense to that. From what I’ve seen, this is one well rounded class. SAT/ACT scores are not the determinants of an applicant’s fit, and I think Duke did a superb job in choosing the class as it stands right now. To all that were deferred, I wish you luck on the next phase! Keep faith! To all those rejected–there is no way on this earth that you will not make an impact wherever you end up :)</p>
<p>TO EVERYONE WHO GOT ACCEPTED:
Just ignore the ridiculous comments by placido240. Duke selected the class that they wanted and did a great job in selecting the ED applicants that were accepted. This is obviously the talk of someone who is very bitter and not capable of being happy for someone else.
I was deferred and am hoping to get off of the list in March and join you in the Class of 2016!</p>
<p>Congrats to all of you who got in! You all deserve it!</p>
<p>I stand by my remarks. Must have been more than a few “development cases” they had to take. And, i agree with the North Carolina remarks: Duke, by statute is REQUIRED to take not less than 13% of its admits from North Carolina. Given that UNC is just as popular in NC and far, far cheaper, we are probably seeing here the NC dregs slipping in under the wire at Duke. Really, Duke will NEVER get into the true “top tier” as long as it is burdened with having to take 13% of its class from a single low-achieving State. I know it’s not their fault, so i suppose I do owe an apology to the Duke adcoms, who are making the best of a bad situation. One reason why Duke’s yield is so low (45%) is that it hopes for a better pool in RD, gets it from all the kids deferred or dinged from the Ivies, and then loses those kids right back when they get into the other Ivy they could then apply to. This being the case, I have no clue why the adcoms admit low-stat kids in the ED round as the law of large numbers says they will capture at least as many high-stat kids from all the high stat kids that flood them in the RD round.</p>
<p>I actually agree with placido. As a current freshman at Duke, I’ve seen more than enough idiots and party animals and noticed the lack of intellectualism here. Don’t get me wrong, there are PLENTY of smart kids at this school, with SAT scores above 2300. However, there seems to be an equal number of people who don’t take school seriously and party on Wednesdays. Admitting students with low standardized test scores may be good for the schools diversity, as such applicants may contribute extracurricularly, but in the end, its the academics that count the most and those with low SAT scores clearly sink in most of the tougher classes here, such as the weed out science and economics classes. I wish Duke would pay more attention to scores as I find attending a school full of people scoring below 2200 slightly disappointing.</p>
<p>Cornetking222,</p>
<p>Do you really think there is a major difference between applicants with 2200 vs. 2150 SATs. That is about 2 questions over the course of a four hour exam. Do agree with you that many Duke students like to have fun, but think this makes its student body more akin to that of Dartmouth, NW, and Vandy and am not sure that is a negative. As for who is partying, do you have any evidence that those on the lawn drinking on Wedensdays are the ones with relatively low SATs. The SAT is not an IQ test, but simply a barometer of how a student is expected to do in their FIRST YEAR (that’s it). I suspect (although have no evidence) that many of the students who do well at Duke do so because of strong work habits and not due to great SATs and that the admitted students with slightly lower SATs than 2200 in general have the same work habits as those with higher SATs.</p>
<p>From my experience, the SAT has a strong relationship with intelligence. All of my smartest friends at Duke and other schools scored high on the SAT. I don’t mean to rain on anyone’s parade. Congrats to those who got in!</p>
<p>The EDs need to start thinking about their transfer options. i don’t know why Duke doesn’t get that we’re ok with admitting 10 low-stat basketball players every year, but that should be the extent of it. Again, i think Duke is hosed because of its NC requirement. Harvard admits that it over-weights Massachusetts and Boston in its admissions, because clearly it needs to live where it lives (politics, etc.). surely, Massachusetts and Boston have a ton – a ton – of smart, high stat kids. But when you see Duke having to over-weight NC or, especially Durham, you really feel sorry for the school. Really, North Carolina? Really, Durham? Sorry to rain on all the Duke high-fives ED parade, but all of you (at least with the good stats) just got OWNED! Get ready for serious buyers’ remorse in the months ahead.</p>
<p>I dont mean to be unpleasant but you seem to be horribly bitter, I hope you recover soon.</p>
<p>I am so terribly disheartened when I read these posts. My roommate, my best friend, a fellow teammate, my RA, and many of my other friends are all from Durham or other parts of North Carolina. They are all intelligent, driven, and ambitious people. No applicant is slighted by the acceptance of these students as they deserve to be here and are as qualified as any other student. There is no minimum score to be a Duke student; there is no optimal score; there is no optimal activity or extracurricular or job that will guarantee acceptance. Weigh these facets for what they are, pieces in a puzzle, and still, not all pieces are as important as each other. </p>
<p>Furthermore, you may choose to blame athletic recruits, legacies, demographics, etc. I will let you do that as it is your prerogative to do so, but I will very humbly remind you that the acceptance rate for both ED and RD includes these students. These acceptance rates are still incredibly competitive.</p>
<p>As for the comment from the current student saying that Duke lacks intellectualism and smart students, Duke will never be a school that is filled with extremely, scary intelligent individuals. For that reason, some students may not be MIT or Cal Tech smart, but our students are well-rounded, driven individuals with a myriad of interests and ambition for amelioration. For example, one of my friends struggles with his writing class, but once his hands touch a piano, there is no denying that he is a genius. Not everything is captured in a snapshot of a standardized test, taken on a random Saturday, possibly not even at your school, administered by teachers you have never seen before, at an hour you have never seen before either. This score is one of the things–and a very small thing at that–that we look for in a holistic admissions process. Perhaps you should speak with a few of the “idiots” you mentioned and realize how very unique they are. Maybe then you will shed some of that elitism.</p>
<p>Lastly, Duke does not strive to be an Ivy. We are Duke and damn proud of it. We will not be embarrassed of the students we have admitted or the scores attached to those students. Those students are not a number or a superscore or an AP average or a GPA. They are people. We found those people to be deserving of an acceptance, and so they were given it. We appreciate a holistic student body that is cultivated in mind, body, and soul. A post commented that Duke Admissions ought to be ashamed. We are not. We have accepted a class of students from the ED pool that impressed, moved, silenced, touched, and inspired us. Those individuals as well as their parents, relatives, and friends should be proud.</p>
<p>For the students who have adopted a very recent yet decidely negative view of Duke, I hope that you will find a way back to appreciating this fine institution, even if it may not be where you will be for the next four years. For the rejected students, stay strong and carry on. Do not let this momentary stutter break your stride on the road to success and happiness. To the deferred students, we look forward to reviewing your applications again and getting to know you better through those applications as we look upon them with fresh eyes. To the accepted students, congratulations, and I looked forward to seeing and meeting all of you.</p>
<p>I agree with muckdogs07. It pains me to see this common misconception. Just because someone’s SAT isn’t really high does not mean they are lazy, inferior people. Granted, the SAT is a very good indicator of intelligence. But please remember that intelligence cannot excuse one from hard work (although it certainly does help), nor indicate one’s work ethic. One can be born a genius and not work so hard and achieve great things. Then again, one may be born with above average intelligence and earn their achievements through thousands of hours of studying and practice.</p>
<p>Does it matter if a 2150 student missed X more questions than the 2300 student, and the 2300 student studies every now and then, yet the 2150 student is ambitious and hardworking–studying 8 hours a day, not sleeping many nights, living in the library, and driving him or herself to the top through sheer willpower? Please understand that a test, especially the SAT, cannot describe everything about a student. That is why the college application process depends on things like GPA, recs, ECs, essays, and years of raw effort through high school. I am disappointed to see such statistical discrimination. I have witnessed so many incredibly unmotivated, lazy people score very well on the SAT and waste away their talent because of their work ethic (or lack thereof). Yet many of my friends with good, but not really high, SATs bust their asses to get As. </p>
<p>I am no genius. My first practice SAT in December of my junior year was 1580/2400. I was unfamiliar with the test and fell for many SAT traps,etc. but I studied hard for 10 months to get to 2180. And yes, honestly it would have been nice to land a 2000-2100 on the first shot. But I am proud to say that I can glue my ass to my chair at my desk and study for 14 hours straight and achieve my goals. Many of you will quickly realize that it matters less of how mentally talented (e.g. difference between a 2000 and a 2300) you are than how hard you work. Congratulations to all who made it. To all of those deferred, don’t stop trying and work work work. You can take many steps to improve your application to be more competitive in the RD pool. To all rejected, please understand you all have incredible potential, amazing stats (from many I’ve seen), and many chances at other amazing, top-notch schools. Best of luck to all.</p>
<p>I don’t think this sort of discussion takes place on the Harvard board (or any Ivy board), which should tell you something. If you had integrity, you would face facts (as you yourself have stated them) and simply say, “We at Duke like half-smart kids because they do other cool stuff and we couldn’t convince the whole-smart kids who do the same cool stuff to come here.” Guttenberg has been here forever and his vision of a reasonably smart, halfway athletic, generally Southern student body prevails. That what you get at Duke, a kind of wannabe Stanford. At Stanford, the kids are insanely smart, very athletic, reasonably Californian, and notable. Call me when Duke invents the next Facebook or Google and then we can have a second look.</p>
<p>His surname is Guttentag…
Besides, your point is really irrelevant. In case you have done so little research to not even know the Dean of Admission’s last name, then you surely have not read their page on who they’re looking for. ([Duke</a> University Admissions: How to Apply](<a href=“http://admissions.duke.edu/jump/applying/who.html]Duke”>http://admissions.duke.edu/jump/applying/who.html)). Point to me where it says, they only want geniuses? They’d rather have very intelligent people who are interesting, passionate, open minded, and especially not bitter. Duke can do whatever they want. They don’t have to conform to any standards of other universities…</p>
<p>placido240 seems to be a frequent basher of other schools (Tulane, Penn recently) in his/her posts, so I wouldn’t take it personally. Although he/she spoke highly of Duke just last month, so that seems odd…</p>
<p>In any event, while you say Stanford has only “insanely smart” students whereas Duke is composed of only “half-smart kids” and that you believe SAT/ACT is a good indicator of intelligence, let’s compare the student bodies at the schools for only enrolled students (I realize the numbers on Duke’s admissions website is accepted students, so we won’t look at those). This is based on the schools common data sets from 2009-10 (the most recent I can find to do a comparison). </p>
<p>Stanford:
ACT Composite Range: 30-34
ACT English: 29-34
ACT Math: 29-34
SAT CR: 660-760
SAT Math: 680-780</p>
<p>Duke:
ACT Composite Range: 30-34
ACT English: 31-35
ACT Math: 29-35
SAT CR: 660-750
SAT Math: 680-780</p>
<p>Summary:
ACT Composite: Exact same
ACT English: Duke better on both 25th and 75th
ACT Math: Duke better on 75th
SAT CR: Stanford better on 75th by 10 points
SAT Math: Exact same</p>
<p>Basically the same with Duke coming slightly ahead in two categories, Stanford in one, and identical ranges in two.</p>
<p>Let’s look at the percentage of “terrible” test-takers at each school; that is, those that scored below 600 on the SAT section or below 24 composite on the ACT.</p>
<p>Stanford: 6.3% CR, 4.17% Math, 7.32% Writing, 2.17% ACT
Duke: 7.15% CR, 4.73% Math, 6.90% Writing, 1.50% ACT</p>
<p>Basically, they are almost identical. Duke has ever so slightly more sub-600 CR and Math, while Stanford has more sub-600 Writing and sub-24 ACT students than Duke.</p>
<p>If you want to argue that test scores are indicative of an intelligent student body, you’d have to argue that Stanford and Duke are basically identical in intelligence level. I will admit that Stanford is more selective than Duke, but clearly they too (like Duke) look at the applicants holistically and care about things other than test scores when evaluating an applicant. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have the ranges that they do. Duke accepts and enrolls a wide range of individuals who have succeeded inside and outside the classroom. If Duke wanted to accept only those students who scored a 2250+ on the SAT, they could. There are certainly enough applicants that have those numbers. But Duke wants to enroll a more diverse set of individuals (I’m not racially, but in interests and accomplishments) and realizes that a student who scored a 2300 isn’t necessarily going to contribute more to the Duke community and prove more successful than a 2150 student. Stanford, clearly, realizes this too and enrolls a very similar student body from a test score perspective.</p>
<p>[Stanford</a> University: Common Data Set 2009-2010](<a href=“http://ucomm.stanford.edu/cds/cds_2009.html]Stanford”>http://ucomm.stanford.edu/cds/cds_2009.html)
ir.provost.duke.edu/facts/cds/CDS%202009-10.pdf</p>
<p>Sorry to go so off topic, but thought it needed to be addressed. Congrats to all those that got in! You are going to love it at Duke! And for those who are deferred or rejected - it’s hardly an indication as to your worth as an individual/student and is more indicative of the competitiveness of the applicant pool. There is some randomness/luck involved in college admissions these days at super selective schools. You will succeed wherever you end up. Good luck!</p>
<p>Who’s running Apple right now? Oh yeah, a Duke grad. </p>
<p>Who’s running Cisco Systems? Oh yeah, a Duke grad.</p>
<p>Who’s running General Motors? Oh yeah, a Duke grad.</p>
<p>Who was in charge of JPMorgan chase, but stepped down due to family issues? Oh yeah, a Duke grad. </p>
<p>@placido, your arguments hold no value, so please, shut your mouth.</p>
<p>I do have to say, it’s almost glorious to see so many people defending their (oh lord, OUR) school. I applied to Duke because it was well rounded, and not filled with “perfect” academics like at MIT. You know why? MIT has no school spirit. No sports. My interviewer told me personally that MIT students might do one extracurricular but generally keep to themselves. I know this is just one example of one school, but I hope it brings across my point–Duke has a COMMUNITY with SPIRIT and I don’t think you can get that without looking for more than just SAT scores… Sorry Placidos, but I think you’re being owned.</p>
<p>If Duke is so great, why does Stanford and the Ivies (and, now closing fast, UChicago) get far more applicants? Duke is allegedly great in economics, so it would have to acknowledge that its own supply/demand curve is deficient compared with these others. What is Guttenberg/Guttentag/Guttenheimer/Guttenstein doing to address this? Where are the spam mailings to the rouge ACT 35 candidate in Montana? The minute the basketball team loses coach K or enters a bad streak, Duke will be lost to college consciousness and revert to Southern regional status, no better than an Emory or a Vanderbilt (with whom it is often compared). My original point remains and remains unaddressed: until Duke can unchain itself from its Carolina mandate, it is doomed to second-tier status. And, back in the Duke Lacrosse scandal day, let us not forget that this “world class” faculty threw their own students under the bus in favor of the usual racist PC cant and paraded their support for what we know now is a stripper-murderer-fraud. How’s that for deep thinking? The faculty has never issued an apology.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What are you talking about? OK, my last post to address this since clearly placido is just trying to stir the pot, so probably no response will make these series of posts end. But you’re making stuff up. Brown and Penn had barely any more applicants than Duke while Dartmouth had 25% fewer applicants, Yale 9% fewer, and Princeton 8% fewer. UChicago had a whopping 27% fewer applicants than Duke. Duke seems to be doing just fine with the number of applicants. On top of that, the number of applicants doesn’t indicate the quality of the institution really. Tulane and NYU frequently are #1/2 in the country in the number of applicants sweepstakes among private schools, but I don’t think anybody would argue they are the two best private schools in the nation. In addition, Duke doesn’t have a North Carolina 13% manadate; that’s completely made up. It’s true Duke gives a slight preference to NC applicants since James Duke established in the charter that he wanted it to “serve the people of the Carolinas” (which didn’t specify North or South, incidentally), but Duke in no way has to have 13% of its class from the state. There are enough smart people from Carolina to make up a reasonable percentage of Duke’s students, but it’s not even the #1 most represented state. The state with the most Duke students enrolled last year? California. Top 5 states: California, New York, North Carolina, Texas, Florida. NJ also floats in and out of the top 5. A southern regional school? I don’t think so…</p>